Bring Back Distortion

I'm gonna say no on the conspicuous actions because numbers wise that's a lot harder to balance around. The problem with balancing around that is by this image alone the times vary wildly depending on what you're doing, having the requirement to gain a stack be too low then people can effectively just sit on gens or abuse totem blessing to gain "technically" free stacks of distortion. Have the requirement be too large then Distortion is effectively rendered useless.

Frankly, it's just easier to keep the chase requirement because you're paying for the stacks by putting yourself out there in the killer's attention. A simple give and take. If anything I think Distortion should be given an activation button so you can toggle it on/off at your own discretion so your stacks are only eaten when you want them to be.

I'm going to be as concise as I can, old distortion only encouraged passive gameplay, it was a blanket cover that required no input other than being in general proximity of the killer. I view survivor more of a team effort and that includes things like being chased, taking heat and sometimes giving up a hook state or two. I do not want the kind of gameplay that old distortion encouraged, I don't want stealth to be rewarded with more stealth and I've given my best compromise above your post:

Reduce the time for chase to be 15 seconds to gain a stack.

Distortion can now hold 3 stacks.

Give the perk a special button to toggle it on/off.

As a bonus, if the perk is toggled off the icon will flash red indicating that the killer's aura is in use.

It'll provide everything that the old distortion does however, you gotta get chased a bit to earn stacks but once you do you'll have complete control over their use. The point being is that it'll provide you cover for when you need it the most crucial times, I feel like this makes it a far more active tool and far more rewarding one for both sides.

I'm gonna say no on the conspicuous actions because numbers wise that's a lot harder to balance around.

How?

Even with 100% uptime, Distortion is not overpowered. It is a counter-perk whose power is limited by the build opposite it. It only ever blocks aura reading and returns the game to the default state.

The problem with balancing around that is by this image alone the times vary wildly depending on what you're doing, having the requirement to gain a stack be too low then people can effectively just sit on gens or abuse totem blessing to gain "technically" free stacks of distortion.

Why would 'free' stacks of distortion be a problem if they're contingent on survivors actively engaging with the game?

'Perk functions if you play as normal' doesn't read like a problem to me.

Frankly, it's just easier to keep the chase requirement because you're paying for the stacks by putting yourself out there in the killer's attention. A simple give and take.

Not really. A perk whose only purpose is to keep the killer from finding you with zero effort requiring you to let the killer find you in order to function is essentially an oxymoron of game design.

I'm not the person you're discussing this with overall, of course, but I do have something to say about the idea about the idea of Distortion charging on Conspicuous Actions instead of chases.

My issue with this suggestion is that I don't think there's a satisfying middle ground for anyone there. Tokens charging via doing generators means each token has to take a pretty long time to grant, otherwise we run the risk of being right back where we started with Distortion being a perk that just flat turns off aura reading permanently.
The issue with old Distortion in my opinion wasn't rat playstyles, I don't even think that's really the reason BHVR nerfed it. The issue was that it was a completely passive perfect counter to an entire class of tools on the opponent's side, and that's just not great game design.

It wasn't meant to be as perfect as it was, that's why it had the token/recharge system to begin with, but the token system was so lenient and the recharge trigger so passive that it functionally did just disable aura reading completely.

Let's take a step back and ask a question. What is Distortion actually meant to do? My answer is that it fundamentally does two things: It provides some protection against aura reading, and it provides some information about what aura reading the killer brought, being currently the only aura blocker that does the second part.
Aura blocking (and indeed any stealth effect) should never be considered a way to avoid the killer for the entire match, just delay chases or perform specific actions safely, so I don't really see the issue with Distortion activating from chases. You should expect to be chased in an average match, so you will get tokens back, and Distortion will delay the first chase to allow you breathing room and the ability to position, as well as giving you information about what the killer's running.
Sure, you could balance the perk around gaining tokens from generators, but I don't think that regeneration speed would be particularly satisfying for survivors. I think the perk's in a better spot right now.

That's not to say I wouldn't buff Distortion, though. I've maintained for a while it'd be fair to give it both tokens at the start, so you've got a bit extra breathing room if the killer brings Lethal Pursuer.

I mean. No.

There's no way of arguing even the overtuned aura reading tools in the game at any stage were passive at all, let alone insanely passive.

I think the only passive aura reading in the game right now is Lethal Pursuer, and coincidentally that's the one Distortion hard counters. Every other aura reading tool in the game has a trigger.
You could maybe make the argument for something like Undying being passive, but I'd like to do you the courtesy of assuming that isn't what you're saying here. Any relevant aura tool has both a trigger and a timer, often having a distance requirement as well.

If you want a killer tool that actually represents the same idea and is problematic for the same reasons as old Distortion, it's Lightborn.

Sort of? There are definitely uses of it that could be considered passive, but I would personally argue the passive uses are the weaker ones, you kinda have to go out of your way to make Weave Attunement busted with something like the Franklin's synergy.
Still, it's a problem, and I don't think it's well designed at all in part because of how it at least can be pretty passive.

For posterity, problematic aura reading also includes Nowhere To Hide. Both these perks have meaningful triggers the killer has to engage with beyond equipping the perk, but both are also very accessible, very annoying, and warrant changes.

If you like, I don't mind that reasoning.

This does unavoidably mean Distortion is also still passive now, since being chased is a regular part of gameplay that doesn't require any deviation.
That is part of why Distortion's current design is fine, because it's now in line with how a lot of activation triggers work; it's something you do have to do, but that something is part of regular gameplay. It isn't passive (in my opinion), but it's accessible.

It's the same difference, in this context.

Being chased is as natural and unavoidable a part of the game as doing generators. Sure, there'll be the odd game where you don't do one of those two things, but they're very much outliers.
Same for killer. Going on chases is as natural and unavoidable as getting hooks in the average match. Sure, there's some outliers (and some more problematic ones too in this case), but they too are outliers, not the norm. Hooks are a reliable accessible trigger, chases are a reliable and accessible trigger.

In the context of activation triggers, they're identical. You're going to be doing both.

I'll admit to being more selective with what I was talking about than I should've been, but I do stand by the comparison to Distortion absolutely not working for any perk other than the one Distortion still hard counters.

To start: I do personally carve a distinction between what I'd call passive, and what I'd call accessible. Perks which do have an activation trigger, but ones that you're very likely to hit as a consequence of regular play, I would call accessible rather than passive. You still have to be engaging with the game for them to trigger, where passive perks are just equipping the perk and they function.
(Distortion, to keep on topic for the actual comparison, is now accessible where before it was passive)

Where I should've been more specific and did misspeak is in the rest, because yeah, there are some passive aura perks other than Lethal. I do still stand by discounting perks that have like, incidental aura reading, like Undying, but something like Bitter Murmur does count as passive aura reading.

What I meant to say is that nothing hit the level of "perfect hard counter" of Distortion, which is the claim I was responding to. None of the passive tools are even close to perfect, and even the accessible ones are still meaningfully gated; BBQ does not perfectly hard counter stealth and it's a very silly claim to say that it does.
Aura reading, as a class, tends to be meaningfully gated and restrained by its numbers. Comparing that to old Distortion is what I meant to say had no basis, because there's a world of difference between "you get auras after a hook, which is normal gameplay, but only on survivors further than forty metres away and only for four seconds" and "you block all meaningful auras for existing in the trial."

BBQ is admittedly a little more restrictive than some others, but most relevant aura reading is far more restricted in its effect than old Distortion was— even the ones you listed are more meaningfully gated than the literal action ascribed.
A Nurse's Calling, for instance, is gated by a survivor action and a distance alongside injuries, same with Deerstalker having a distance and requiring slugging instead of just activating on a down (to contrast with a non-aura tool like Infectious Fright for example).

Distortion was meant to be restricted (with its token system), but meaningfully wasn't, it effectively got to be a perfect aura block for no real engagement. Aura reading tools just aren't on that level for the most part, and any that approach it tend to be the problematic ones that get nerfed.
…Though admittedly I'm still waiting for Nowhere To Hide to be nerfed.

TL;DR the point is that aura reading is gated with meaningful numbers + systems keeping it in check, and Distortion wasn't, so the comparison just did not make any sense.

 but most relevant aura reading is far more restricted in its effect than old Distortion was

This is where I really disagree, and I think this is also where Distortion's history is relevant.

Distortion got updated to its 'problematic' form in 6.1, in July 2022. It did not get marked as problematic until very shortly before its nerf, which is two years later. Up until that point, it was a complete nothing-burger.

So if Distortion didn't change, what did?

Well, we got Lethal Pursuer, we got Nowhere to Hide, we got Floods of Rage, we got Weave Attunement…

Up until then, the primary source of aura reading was BBQ & Chili, which has a universally telegraphed use condition and ONLY works on those who are far away from the killer. You can also argue I'm All Ears, which only works in chase.

But Lethal Pursuer is free and uncounterable at base.

Nowhere to Hide reveals all those nearby and it's untelegraphed. Floods of Rage reveals all in disregard of their distance to the killer. Weave Attunement reveals all within item radius in disregard of their distance to the killer.

The old aura perks were heavily restricted with specific uses that left room for play. The new aura perks are just autopilots. And that led to the rise of Distortion. In a way, this also neatly ties in with the following:

TL;DR the point is that aura reading is gated with meaningful numbers + systems keeping it in check, and Distortion wasn't, so the comparison just did not make any sense.

Distortion is entirely contingent on the use of these aura reading perks. It only works in the exact same situations that the perks it counters do, so it really carries the same restrictions. If the aura reading doesn't fire, neither does Distortion.

But more importantly than that, Distortion can only ever barely do more than reset the game to base state, which is by definition, not overpowered. Its power and prominence scales with the power of the perks it counters since that is its only function. That is the restriction that it faces. It is not a stealth perk like Lucky Break or Dance With Me, which do something of their own and provide an actual advantage.

It just sets the game to default and nothing more than that. That is Distortion's restriction.

After thinking about it some more, it can still get abused. If progress it measured purely from time spent doing conspicuous actions then somebody can just cleanse a dull totem to 90%, stop and redo it again to get stacks which would quite literally be a case of somebody doing nothing useful to use a perk. You either have to ratchet the requirements up so you'd have to have to do generators to gain stacks making everything else moot or you leave it at chase time which is a far easier measurement to balance around.

You can absolutely do that, however it's just a lot easier at the end of the day to keep the activation to just a single action for the sake of balance and intuitiveness. If you don't want chases then I propose gaining stacks off soley repairing generators. 30-40% of generator progress to gain a stack of Distortion, that way it still requires a substantial enough cost and prevents any potential cases of perma-removal of your aura.

Old distortion was so unhealthy it either

A) If the killer brought 1-2 aura perks and no aura reveal add-ons it turned off aura reading entirely

B) If the killer hard committed to aura reading the the perk couldn't regen tokens fast enough and it basically did nothing

It was a binary either turning entire perks off or not and was extremely strong for the value it gave. It's weak right now but the old version was stupidly strong/did nothing which is awful(note: there's also killer perks that fall into this exact same camp like lightborne for example)

This ain't even getting into the metagaming of distortion allowing you to pick apart the killers perks by virtue of watching stacks for trigger events and swf.

Eg.

* Match starts and distortion count goes down? Call out lethal

* Killer kicks a Gen and distortion count goes down? Call out nowhere to hide

* Killer hooks and count goes down? Call out bbq … etc etc for every aura reading perk and 1 dude in a swf on coms.

If survivors can have one perk that turns off the whole set of killer abilities, how about giving the killer a perk that ignores Endurance or stuns completely as well? Not just "making stuns shorter, and only from pallets", but completely turns off the ability to stun the killer, just like the old Distortion completely turned off every aura reading perk and ability of the killer.

Thank you. Finally someone else see's the comparison.

Honestly, if Lightborn was changed to have a strict timing window and replace the blinding effect with a subtractive one instead of the associated brightness, I feel that would be a fair compromise. Make it so it'll pretty much always work if the survivor is lazy with their timing, but give a window for it to be able to be overcome with skill. Good players can adapt, bad players don't get to bank on how forgiving the blinding timing is, killers who use it for photosensitivity reasons are taken care of, everybody wins.

The issue of course will be on how strict it would be, as I feel like nobody would ever agree on that, and BHVR would most certainly monkey paw it into a value nobody is happy with.

I don´t see the comparison between Lightborn and Distortion to be fair.

Yeah both shut down a part of the game play. Thats right but one says you aren´t allowed to eat choclate cakes with nuts while the other says you aren´t allowed to eat cake at all.

Let me explain.

Distortion reduced a quarter of Killer perks and addons aswell. If 4 Survivors picked it it could demolish whole builds by only sacrificing one perk per survivor and they still got 12 perk slots left to use. If only 3 Survivors picked this perk well… the last one will have a funny time to be found all game and most likely get nuked before the others. So it will become a must have perk and since this forum showed me that no perk should be a "must have" perk even if it counters strong Killer tactics which are hated… well… you get the drill.

Lightborn is a fourth of the Killers perk load out and deactivates one item (I won´t count firecrackers because most Survivors won´t go into the match with the intend to save with these while they still could take a flashllight) and some perks which aren´t meta as well.

If you compare these two over the point of "They both take something out of the game" than you can compare oppression with technician. Because both perks give you gen regression when you won´t hit a skill check.

Not a fair comparison. One's basekit material, the other is in perks.

Plus, as mentioned, Lightborn exists.

Well let me put it another way.

If the Killer has Lightborn and you got a Flashlight. You shine at him at the first pallet and see. "Well he got Lightborn" so no use to blind.

If the Killer brings Aura perks and Survivors run Distortion, "well I guess I can just stop using my perks."

There is a huge difference.

Huge diff? Okay, Ill run this scenario. I brought a flashlight in and I just stunned the killer at a pallet. They go to break said pallet and I try to blind. They have lightborne! Now I will likely take a hit unless I pull a 360 from the entities arse. But you're right, I now know they have lightborne. Okay, im still on the same page.

Now in the next match, I bring in old distortion, and the killer.. we'll say they brought an entire 3 aura perks and a gen regress. Or we can do 4 aura, idc. Killer notes they can't see my aura and determines I have Distortion.

So far, they're playing out the same. Here's where we will disagree because you left out so much from these scenarios. I'll run them back again, from my PoV.

I brought a flashlight and tried to blind the killer, it didnt work! Oh, my team mate tried a flashbang… it didnt work! My other teammate, bless their heart, was like the killer and brought an entire build for one thing: blinding. (Champion of light, etc)… and like the killer, the other side countered it with a single perk.

Next, Killer brings same build, and runs into the distortion player(s), then boom, its the same result as with the other side above.

….or is it?!

If the killer brings lightborne, they can shut down an entire set of mechanics designed to help resist the killer. So thats tools taken away from 4 players. Not 1, 4. 1 perk on a killer has the potential to shut down 4 players builds/items/blinding things. To get even half of this effect, 2 survivors would need distortion. To get the value and power lightborne has, all 4 MUST equip it, else it only works at 25% value, which is more than 0.

4 survivors bringing distortion was rare, but Im sure it happened with SWF a lot more. But, Im postulating here.

Even if we disagreed one all of this, would we agree that the game might be in a bit of a better state without such perks? Old distortion and lightborne, if they just fizzled into thin air, would we be worse off?

And as we have seen in the time with the old distortion and as many others in this discussion said. It was a staple perk for rats and became mendetory to equipp if you didn´t want to be found every single time as the only Aura shown to the Killer.

There was a reason Killers AND Survivors wanted changes to this perk.

We've seen an echo chamber really. You can call it what you want, but a source of wisdom it is not. Most of the rats still exist, and don't use distortion. They didn't back in the day. You can claim they did without proof all you want, and I'll just do the same. I've not run into rat types very often in my time on the game, but they do exist. Distortion though? Nah.

Show me a survivor that wanted it changed like this, plz. Like, one who actually voiced and made the effect to do anything you're claiming. Its easy to simply make a statement at the end of a post and leave it at that. But Im the type to call it out. And its Maurice dung. Even killers have said it was overly nerf'd, though this is now a 'bhvr did it' issue, and out of player hands.

Anyway, thanks for the discussion. We won't agree, but I've some things to chew on. Thank you.

Yeah both things Lightborn and old Distortion took parts out of the game. The difference in my opinion is the importance of that part. Myself only picks Lightborn if I see 3 to 4 flashlights in a round and I am suprised how often Survivors can´t react to this.

Uh… no, I totally agree with this. When I losd into a lobby and see 2-3 FLs its.. well I assume Lightborne is coming.

Now this part is just personal, but if the killer brings lightborne, I am fine with it as my own player. I don't bring blind builds as it's just not my thing. So to me the killer has 3 perks now. If they get value out of LB, damn. That sucks for my team, but it's not like someone was tunneled out. Lightborn can make gameplay quite interesting. Not usually, but it can.

I mean if I use my flashlight (not for the first time) and the light doesn´t get smaller while I shine at the Killers face I run before the pallet breaks. (Yes the Killer gets an Aura read for this but I still make distance.) But many Survivors are really standing there what feels like a good year and do nothing while you are out of the break animation and still shining at you. JFYI Lightborn could be a really strong perk if the animation would play out normally and even give you points for the blind althrough nothing happend.

Agreed. I'd like to say this isnt accurate, but it is lol. Buuuuut! The jfyi! This is the first time I've heard this suggestion, but I kind of like it. I'd love to try it this way lol.

Would the game be better without Lightborn and Distortion. Well I am not sure about this. The Devs buffed lightborn to this state for a reason because it was much worse before. The change for Distortion is most of the time a good change maybe give it more tokens when you get chased longer but to claim that it is unplayable is not true at all (like OP did) You are more hidden against chase orientated auras like I am all ears and such while you can still stack it against Nowhere to hide but you aren´t immune to auras for just existing.

In this position of yours, you are not fine with survivors having a perk that stops things from happening simply by having it equipped. However, you are fine with killers getting this type of perk? That's literally lightborne. Is it the whole '1v4, 4vs16 perk thing?' While a weak assertion, I don't feel you'd use this, so I would be curious to your thoughts? If this is the case, please explain? Ty!

Hot take: Build/mechanic destroying perks/addons/items on either side should get the Distortion treatment or removed.

My point is more like this. If you bring an Item, Medkit, Toolbox, Flashlight. The Killer can take perks to counter these. Thats the reason why the Killer can adjust their build in the Lobby. Sadly if you would say make Lightborn so that Flashlight saves takes longer you can just readjust your timing and the perk becomes useless again.

I wouldn't ever say that, but I understand your example. If I was to change LB, I'd either make it so 'JFYI Lightborn could be a really strong perk if the animation would play out normally and even give you points for the blind althrough nothing happend.' or put it on a 180s cooldown, with 10 seconds of blind immunity after it procs. Less time on cooldown will eventually make the cooldown obsolete and unimpactful. 120-180 feels good, but I'd love to hear thoughts. Still stops blinds but gives windows of opportunity (hahaha!) to still make blind saves if things happen in quick secession.

The big problem with Distortion was the following. You got rewarded by refusing to interact with the Kill by getting something what helps you to refuse to interact with the Killer. Thats the reason why I like the new Distortion. You get rewarded to deny the ability to read your aura in chase while getting chased. The thing is, most of people who enjoy chase don´t want to lose the Killer because that means the chase is over and so you get better perks to aid you, while someone who wants to hide wants to stay hidden.

If a player wants to 'not interact with the killer', then that's their choice. It will hurt the team (maybe), but if they are focused on being the unseeable gen jockey, that helps the team. But there are stealth perks for that type of play, and its totally viable. A single digit percentage of players abusing this doesn't warrant and all-out war on stealth. Though that seems to be the current page from the playbook.

If I suck at chases, and want to help, I would likely play stealth and do gens. Now comes the individual choice part: Personally, I would also unhook, take chase when others are in danger, and so on. But the stealthy player might not. This is one of the chances you take with dbd. Its either 1v4 or 1v1v1v1v1. This sort of dynamic is probably looked down upon, but I do feel it adds a bit to the horror aspect. Solo'q is just an rng cesspool, but if you love cesspools, cannonballlllll!!

Its all I play really. Approaching 5k hours and I can say most of it was solo'q, with a bit of Trapper and Nemmy.

I used old Distortion to avoid Blights ridiculous addons, aura builds in general as its more or less 'cheating' mindset imo, and to guard against getting the gate open and out. I refuse to get hatch unless it opens like right in front of me.

Anyway, to answer, I did. It was a staple perk. When I ran aura on Trapper, I found it didn't really apply much if I had good trap placement. However, this can't be the same for all killers. I am aware it could be quite difficult for other killers, but if they didn't bring an aura perk, they'd still be at the same place if Distortion was in play. Its just a game neutral reset.

Did this answer things? Did I go overboard? lol.

Ofcourse it seemed that the Killer found me first all the time because I was the only one they could find.

Strong argument for nerfing the crap out of the post BBQ aura reading perks because if 'handholding' is such a crime, the aura reading perks are the godfather.

Well I don´t understand how my teammates rat me out with a perk, to be a reason to nerf a Killer perk?

They don't.

The default is that the killer doesn't get to see your aura and has to look for you.

The fact that you pin the blame on Distortion for returning the game to its base state is indicative of how much aura reading has been power-crept to be the new standard, to the point where you think someone NOT being high-vis is the actual problem, rather than the killer getting a live feed of your location.

Your entire perception of how the game works has been shifted because aura reading perks have escalated so badly that they foundationally change how the game works.

Running Aura peerks is nice to get information ofcourse. But you will realize pretty fast that you miss other things.

Yeah, that's kinda the point of buildcrafting. You give up on some things to gain other things.

Now you could say… that the Killer could run Hexes… but Thrill + undying + Devour + Penti is hated aswell.

So… we go for an Endgame build? But most people hate noed because it is Skillless…

Both of these are whataboutism that don't fix the problem with aura reading's power creep. Not to mention that boiling Endgame build down to just NOED is incredibly disingenuous.

Also, these builds are fixable with proper design so if you really care about that, bring that up in their own threads.

Aura Perks need to be strong or they will be just not worth it to equip when you could take slow down perks.

BBQ & Chili gives aura reading but won't just light you up right next to the killer, and it has clear and effective counterplay. Lethal Pursuer has none of these guardrails, neither does Nowhere to Hide.

BBQ & Chili, by all accounts, should be F-tier compared to those two. It's still, according to Nightlight, the 7th most popular killer perk.

If LP and NtH were removed overnight, BBQ would be the 5th most popular.

They don't need to wreck the game's core functions to have a place.