The First - Killer Power Feedback

The Upside Down's cooldown is way too long. We are at a point in the game where map traversal can make or break a killer, and right now it takes way too long for Vecna to get his map at around 35 seconds. This is especially true since the Undergate attack slows the killer so much, that it is easily dodged, meaning the Upside Down is really only good for traversing the map.

The result is I feel stuck using Pizza Goggles and Stained Glass Mural every game, to reduce the Upside Down's cooldown. And Pizza Goggles feels like it has zero downside, since I'm never expecting to hit with the Undergate attack even when it's at full size. And is the Undergate attack supposed to be easily dodged? Because it currently is.

The Vine Attack itself is fine.

I don't know how I feel about the clocks. Being able to actually injure people with an M2 attack is the actual fun part of the killer, and even though a survivor working on clocks "isn't repairing a generator", it still feels bad that the Worldbreaker timer can be reduced by so much. But I also realize that if clocks aren't powerful then survivors aren't going to use it, and Worldbreaker does have a phase 2 where the time can't be reduced. I dunno. It just feels like it's going to be really annoying for the killer when survivors work on clocks, even though it's not "optimal play" for survivors to work on clocks instead of repairing. I kind of wish the maybe phase 2 can be a bit longer, and phase 1 can be a bit shorter, so there is more guaranteed Worldbreaker time?

And yes, I know that if I really hate clocks, I could just play Clock Hands + Mid-Century Radio to find interrupt the clocks, but that in itself is going to feel annoying when the opponents are coordinated SWFs that can use voice comms to bypass oblivious, since coordinated SWFs are going to be more likely to spam clocks.

And Worldbreaker is awkwardly dark for the killer, and should be lighter for the killer, because I had difficulty trying to carry a survivor to a hook in a dark indoor map, because I couldn't easily see where the openings in the walls were from a distance.

It's also sad that this killer is an easier-to-use Unknown, but is way more useful than Unknown, because Unknown's power is so undertuned (survivors can cleanse Unknown's status effect too quickly and easily by staring at the killer for small periods of time, and letting the overtuned staring-buffer to fill in the gaps).

Ok I just had a match with Survivors who didnt look where they went and yeah this Killer is the hottest guy when that happens.

But the 4 matches before that, Pure hell. My interest in this Killer vanishes if I cant hit enough Power hits to dominate.

He feels incredibly powerful, he can hit through walls like Nurse, except he doesn't need to charge it up nor does it give him fatigue, but rather he is 4.4 so he can use it for zoning. The cooldown is way too short, his mobility is pretty mid in isolation but combined with insta hit through walls I would easily put him in the top 5.

But also his counterplay is extremely limited. Like you can bait going somewhere, but if he calls your bluff he hits you anyway, and if you try to dodge too much he can just M1.

His underground form:

1. Not enough warning/tracking — fix is to add a longer trail to indicate where he is and make particles or something float up above grass height. The undetectable means you need adequate visual warning he is nearby, wish he does not currently have.
   1. If there is a "tunneling" sound for survivors, it is too low and barely audible. If there is not, there should be (at least when within 8-10 meters).
2. His underground collision is too large. You "bounce" off walls when trying to go through doors in tight corridors. Lerrys is akin to a ping-pong ball machine.
3. His underground AOE is easier to avoid in more open areas but almost always hits in tighter areas. A survivor can escape it if they speed all the time moving in a straight line, but if you can't — like in lerry's — you will almost always get hit
4. His AOE seems pretty fast / out of nowhere, but I think is due to no adequate visual warning he is around — this is particularly a problem in maps that have a lot of ground cover or visual blockers (corn, grass, ect.)

Tokens:

1. Need a way to clear tokens as survivor.
   1. Maybe a second interaction with clocks to make that possible.
2. Tokens don't reset after hooks.

Vines

1. They should not be usable within 10 seconds of using the underground ability.

Addons

1. No-addons the power is clunky to use. The vines range feels really short and the speed of the underground ability activating is way too slow (with NO ADDONS).
2. Orderly ID and Bloody Roller Skates solve these issues with the power, so I expect these to be highly used in future due to the above mentioned.

Seems pretty balanced and fun to play. I would consider him A tier no perks/add-ons. A one second reduction to undergate would make him A+.

A way to remove tokens wouldn't hurt. I would recommend a way to use the clocks to do this.

His m2 is a skill shot and puts him in line with nurse in the hands of good players.

Overall I would be happy with him as is. A small cool down on m2 will be OK but not more than 1 or 2 seconds. I wouldn't really nerf anything else about him or he will be trash and no one outside of streamers and fanboys would get him.

We have a lack of good killers and survivors are already complaining about seeing the same killer over and over (blight). Let's give them some variety.

He feels great so far. Always wanted a very caster style killer so his power is already cool even though I am not a massive stranger things fan the power alone is very fun.

His M2 (Vine Attack) is a little predictable and with all the audio and stinger that play when he goes to use it I have not had a hard time so far dodging the attack reliably so I would say a slight radius increase would be nice about 0.25M would be cool. Other than that I would say so far it is fun to use and its short cool down means that this killer can use his power and miss a few times without the game being over like The Unknown

Undergate feels little too ineffective any speed increase or exhaustion perk the surv has and its a miss no matter what but I would say that's fine as this should mainly be a movement tool and for that its cool down is massive I would say reduce the cool down by 15sec and rework "Pizza Goggles" to change his disappear and reappear animation speeds.

World breaker/Grandfather clocks. The way the timer is done is … strange as 3/4 of the timer can be sped up by another survivor making it so a team who is very on top of things is always going to make sure that you get little use out of his power and "Bead Maze" may end up being an add-on that people will have to run to get enough time out of it.

Now as a fix I would say that the amount of "Guaranteed "time you get in world breaker should be based on the number of tokens the surv has when its triggered - 15 sec (Token = 15 add -15 to total) so lets say Meg has 2 token when it starts then world breaker has 15 secs of guaranteed time, if Dwight get it at 3 token its 30secs.

Other than that this killer thematically is very good all audio effects that play makes a very imposing and fun killer that from a current look at his power is on par if not a bit better than Artist which is good spot to have a killer at.

looks like mixed opinions… wich usually means hes either balanced or people havent made up their mind yet

There isn't much counter play against vine attack atm because if they manage to place it with you in the centre it's guaranteed to hit. Considering that it goes through walls this isn't very hard to do and makes most loops kinda of useless.

Im not sure if it's bugged but also as a survivor it feels like you can't see where it is going to happen until it has already fired.

I think there should be a window like pyramid head where you can see where its going to hit, it should be shorter but it would at least allow for some counter play from survivors against it.

To be fair, survivors shouldn't be able to react to the vine attack and then dodge it, otherwise playing Vecna would be useless since if the survivor is good enough, he would never be able to get a hit against that survivor.

The delay between activating the power and the vines injuring the survivor needs to be just long enough for both the killer and survivor having to predict each other's move. If the delay is too low, then Vecna can just place his vines perfectly and the survivor would never have a chance to dodge in that situation, and if the delay is too long, then the survivor could always reliably dodge the vines if the survivor player can react fast enough.

Haven't played the PTB yet but from what I have seen the delay might already be good. If it turns out to be too low though for survivors to have a fair chance at dodging the vines, then a very small increase in delay duration would be needed.

Undergate Attack seems unavoidable??? If you start emerging directly in the center of your power with a Survivor in it they always get hit they can't make it out in time.

Is that really the case though? Like have some people already figured this out by testing this? To me the delay seemed quite fair, just from watching videos, but this is also my biggest concern, that if the vines are placed perfectly under a survivor, there is no way for them to dodge the vines. Both the survivor and Vecna should have to predict what the opponent does.

I wanted to add again that there needs to be a way to remove the Clock stacks on survivors. The power works in the same sense as Wesker and Krasue were where the person having the "infection" on them was better for your power. To get into Worldbreaker, you need to have at least 2 stacks of the timer on you, which you don't lose. If you hit someone with at least 1 stack, you're back into Worldbreaker. Why go after survivors with no stacks when you can go after the the survivor that just got unhooked with 2 stacks? Just hit a vine attack one time and you're back in your power where vine attack does damage. The Upsidedown AOE is pretty easy to dodge for survivors so you're not likely to get two stacks on a fresh survivor after hooking someone.

For experienced players, I don't think this will be a problem. But for new survivors (and killers that understand tunneling is the most effective strategy), you're gonna have a lot of players complaining that he's too OP.

I'm not saying to remove stacks completely. But I think if you interact with clocks you can remove a stack. Or remove 1 stack on hook. Something along those lines.

but other than that possible slight nerf hes quite balanced and feels very fun to play

I think the traveling in the upside down's attack could use a bit more speed. Not too much but its definitely just slow enough to be avoidable 99.99% of the time.

I think I'm giving up on this killer, for the same reason that I gave up playing Huntress. The First moves so slowly in chase, that he's just spending way too much time looping around and around and around and around the same objects. It's not fun gameplay. Newer killers should never be 4.4 movement speed, especially with the current map reworks and current pallet densities.

And he takes so long to recover from his map traversal ability that it's useless in chase, which means he's really just stuck with the most boring chases.

His vine attack cooldown is perhaps a bit overtuned but mostly fine. The most annoying part of going against him is how easily he can zone with his vine attack, sometimes the only direction to dodge is into the killer which means they just get an m1 anyway. I saw an interesting idea of removing his m1 altogether and I think his m2 is strong enough to support that but would obviously need other changes. His undergate attack is a guaranteed hit if he is directly beneath you but that makes it a skill hit so fine.

Counterplay appears to be similar to nurse, break los, be unpredictable, pray no aura reading. A really skilled player will likely be a menace with them so long as they are good at predicting movements.

The cooldown & him being 4.4 means as long as you dodge it you're far enough to gain distance. Maybe they can add like 0.5s to power cooldown.

Undergate attack is nearly useless offensively unless someone is cornered like an indoor map. If it was consistent he might actually be a real problem though so they need to be careful. I would honestly prefer it only giving 1 stack for it to be more effective.

Very Very Very True….. BHVR need to stop making 4.4m/s killer's

Just to clarify it's only an Insta kill if you have 4 tokens and are on death hook you can get rid of the tokens if do the clocks in world breaker mode even then it's just a mini mori like Pyramidhead and Myers and NOT like Sadako