Damn playing a low tier killer is Horrible right now.
Since the latest season started if you play anything else then a very mobile killer with some anti loop your Genrushed to oblivion....
Hell you get gen rushed even if you play one of them on most matches lol
Gens poping like a madman... ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ it feels horrible right now...
I Don't really enjoy playing most of the very mobile killers sadly sooo im just ♥♥♥♥♥♥ sideways...
The hell happened with the gen speeds ?
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there's gen builds going around right now with the new Chapter.
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Genuinely, there's not much else to do on Survivor.
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with how oppressive mobility killers + Gen regression are. You cannot blame survivors for being optimal to counter it.
It sucks, but they need to give survivors more reason to do other things aside from gens. Like chests etc, there is only what 3 on the map baseline.
That said lower tier killers need buffs, that's a given lol26 -
no dash killers are just F-tier
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My Idea is to have survivors be required to build/unboard god pallets and windows. If they choose to rush gens their chases will be weaker and vice versa. Simple core gameplay mechanic that gives them something other to do than jump on gens with the best gen perks. Right now they get everything for free with the most brainrotted perks that give instant value. Zero incentive to learn the game when you can just slap on windows and run to yellow
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And in the opposite case? When there are too many gens left and not enough hook states/Survivors?
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Nothing really changed though. I had a killer DC last night citing gen rushing but I was the only one in the lobby with my one single gen perk, and it was just Deja Vu. You just have to spread pressure against survivors who know the game.
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It’s not a problem with gen speeds in my opinion. Higher tier killers can apply enough pressure to deal with it unless you have a coordinated team on comms. The problem is that BHVR doesn’t have the resources to rework the growing mountain of old content, including buffing the low tier killers to make them competitive against more than just brand new survivors. It seems like they’ve simply abandoned all efforts for updating older killers and are focusing solely on new content and events now.
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What may be old to me may be new to someone else.
What may be low level to someone else may be high level to me.
Some people are attracted to strength, while others are attracted to weakness.
I don't like tier lists that don't make much sense.
High frequency of change may leave some people behind.
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There are 4 survivors bro. They need to stop catering to babies and actually focus on their veteran players who know how to play the game. Everyone agrees that gen speeds need to be looked at and my idea is a core mechanic that punishes gen rush. They punish camping and tunneling yet leave gen rush untouched. Survivors can afford to spend a little time in order to set up strong pallets and windows
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Ideally Killer starts out macro and moves into micro as the game progresses, while Survivor starts micro and moves into macro. Currently Killer starts micro and ends micro, while Survivor starts macro and ends macro. Your solution only pushes macro harder onto Survivor while giving Killer, the power role, even more breaks. Thankfully for you, BHVR is moving in that direction already. But for the health of the game, we need either better balance or total chaos. Right now we have neither.
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There not doing gens to counter it there doing gens because that's the objective, they dont know what killer there gonna face, there builds and toolboxes are in their hands before they know anything. Dont matter who you play your gonna get gen rushed. If they wanna win there gonna do gens fast.
You can play high mobility killers all you want. If there gen rushing, you better get consistent 25 second downs. If your spreading hooks you better get consistent 10 second downs, and that's with really good killers. If your playing killers with bad mobility you might as well go grab you a toolbox and help them.
Gen potential is the real issue, lower it. Nobody should be popping a gen by themselves in 30 sum seconds.
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How have camping and tunneling been punished? With ptbs that never made it to live?
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i dont see this anywhere. If I take a look at the same old killer mains they´ll do pretty well as always. Maybe take a look at your own gameplay?
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Camping and tunneling doesn't = to a single survivor popping a gen in 30 sum seconds.
If a survivor is popping gens like that you better do what ever tf you can or that's your as*, and most of the time its still your as*
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M1 killers arent making money so why should they bother buffing them? Look what happened to Myers, reworked him the second they found out his license was going away and made sure to coax a couple more bucks outta people. Money talks and thats why Ghoul is still the way he is right now.
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First, that's outrageously uncommon. The very rare niche gen rush build requires luck with Bardic and set up in hanging around the killer's TR to get tokens on Stake Out. Even when I was running a Commdious with meta add-ons, Deja Vu, and old Streetwise I wasn't getting gens done that fast. Hard tunneling at 5 gens happens to me way more than someone bringing a build like that as either killer or survivor. Second, you said:
They punish camping and tunneling yet leave gen rush untouched.
And I'm asking you in which ways these things have been punished by "they" which I assume is the devs.
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You love to put down survivors while calling them the toxic ones. Do you have zero self awareness?
Fact is the average killer is as bad as the average survivor. Survivors can only "gen rush" if you let them. Every killer I have practice with I have an above average kill rate with and the more I practice the more I win. So many killers think they're good at the role but they're not, the game just favors them so they think they are.
I literally just got out of a match with a Wesker running Coulrophobia and Plaything together, he also had Surge. He hit two dashes, got four outed, and then claimed he was playing pallet simulator. In endgame I tried to explain how anti synergy his build was but he tried to hit back that Bond was a bad perk. I am solo queue, bond is a better perk to me than DS or any exhaustion perk, that guy definitely thought he was good.
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Normal level survivors will not repair the same generator at the start of the match.It's the foundation of survival.The first time a survivor falls to the groundThree generators may be repaired. This may be the fault of the murderer who is unaware of it. The killer I play against can be slow. The generator isn't fastSometimes the killer I'm fighting is slow.
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You fail to realize just how broken gen rushing is right now
If you run
- Full circuit
- Hyperfocus
- Built To Last
- Deja Vu
- Toolbox
And your team mate runs prove thyself with a toolbox aswell
the game can start and they can hop on a gen and pop it in 20 seconds lmao And dont forget what built to last does…
Like its literally a joke what SWFs are capable of. Alot of you survivors who only solo Q and dont really play killer like that have no idea wth really goes on.
Btw i never said what you quoted.
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Yeah, I'll try to remember what it does.
I bring the Commodious with meta add-ons too, and I don't get gens done anywhere near that fast. The boogeyman you're describing is me yet it's still only a 44% ER. Can't hold a candle to the 80%+ KR killers. I'd rather deal with a gen jockey with my build as killer than teams with DH, DS, MfT, Background Player, Boil Over, and WGLF with sabo toolboxes and flashlights.
Like its literally a joke what SWFs are capable of. Alot of you survivors who only solo Q and dont really play killer like that have no idea ######### really goes on.
Idk who "you survivors" is because I play SWF and killer. Soloqing is rare for me.
But I'm asking again, what anti-tunnel and camp measures have been rolled out?
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It doesnt matter how fast you personally get gens done if someone is running
- Full circuit
- Hyperfocus
- Built To Last
- Deja Vu
- Toolbox
with prove thyself + toolbox…The generator gets done approximately 24-26 seconds realistically. That's INSANE.
I'm talking about SWFs here im not talking about a global escape rate from a unofficial site. Unless you can go find me some official data on that.
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In the view that I can see The four solo survivors show teamwork that rivals that of SWF.
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Those are my personal stats, as someone who plays in parties, from the official BHVR stat tracker, regularly running several of the perks you're talking about.
But sure, the offical escape rates by party and MMR are very commonly displayed:
The only ones that do exceptional are the high MMR 4mans, who are only so common, and 48% isn't exactly amazing for the world's best players. Solo survivors in all other brackets has the highest ER.
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Its funny how your response to 2 survivors popping a gen in 20 seconds. is a sheet that further proves whos doing it.
The devs themselves have said that they aim for a 60/40 for balance on both sides. This is what they said. Theyve aimed for 60/40 for YEARS these are the people who have alllllll the data, and they've been sticking to their guns for YEARS. Im pretty sure theirs a GOOD reason why they are saying 60/40 is balanced after reviewing ALLLLLL their data for YEARS.
What in the F*** are survivors doing to pull almost 10% past the intended escape %??? the swfs in high lobbies are popping gens like popcorn. No way in the world should you be able to pop a gen in 24-26 seconds with 2 people AND have coms.
Skull merchant has the highest kill rate record EVER which was like 70% when she was BROKEN ASF and they nerfed her to the ground. Anytime a killers target % rises as high as SWFs are right now they get nerfed to the ground, because behavior has said countless times 60/40 is balanced.
Well SWFs are 8% above the targeted balance. According to the devs, 60/40 is balanced so 60/50 is not balanced.
Popping a gen as fast as 4 mans can shouldn't be possible it just shouldn't.
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You got 3 new gen perks and a new killer which is nearly impossible to do gens against since.
Hes running a hex perk
You have to rescue and heal
You have to do clock
You have to loop or help your teammate not get tunneled.
I dont have fun playing the game anymore unless i adept with friends or i run a TRUE genrush loadout, just to keep up against killers running 4 gen-regression on high tiers.
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Then, by your logic, I guess all these killers need nerfs.
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the reason SoloQ have a higher ER is that swfs are going for the save, and causing a snowball for the killer
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Those killer stats are bloated because in high mmr theirs solo,duo and trios. All of them have 40% ER. Swfs in high mmr are literally the ONLY group that out performs everyone.
If a good blight is one of the best killers to play against a Coordinated swf to have a chance. Wth do you think that blight is most likely gonna do to solo Qers in high mmr? Hes gonna stomp, and if blights go around stomping solo Qers but from time to time gets humbled by a swf hes gonna have bloated stats.
Now if a killer is trash at high mmr, there gonna have issues with everybody. Swfs makes this game unbalanced and their sheer existence warrants the keeping of bloated killers.
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It is what it is
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Im pretty sure theirs a GOOD reason why they are saying 60/40 is balanced
They don't.
They said it's the target they aim for, but not that it's 'balanced'.
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It's logical to assume the data pool for upper MMR 4mans is outrageously small compared to everyone else since getting four great players together is likely difficult. So those stats probably represent the smallest group of players by a longshot. And four great players should beat most people. That's just logical. I'd never expect to stand a chance against a comp team. They should win. 48% is kinda trash for people that are that good. They can't even average winning half their matches.
If killers stomp against soloq by default, that's a problem. They shouldn't be fodder for killers, yet you want survivor nerfs that will hurt soloq and not really touch a high-performing, coordinated team.
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Covering allies is possible even when playing solo. There are bad players in both solo and swf. There are good players in both solo and swf. Just because it's SWF doesn't mean you'll have a good experience. Just because it's solo doesn't mean you'll have a miserable experience. If it's the right opponent.
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this is a quote straight for a developer
"We try to keep Killers near a 60% kill rate on average to keep matches relatively even and support the horror theme of the game, where the Killer is a force to be reckoned with and the survival is not guaranteed."
"Looking at the bigger picture, there was an average kill rate of 60% across all MMR... This largely falls in line with our intended Killer balance."
They out right said its for balance.
I actually want the opposite, i want gen multipliers capped. And bloated killers NERFED. That literally does the opposite of affecting solo Q because solo Q players arent gen rushing abusing multipliers with coms. That actually helps solo Q,.
Outrageously smaller is a heavy exaggeration, is it less swfs then solos and duos in high mmr yes most likely.
If your solo Qing in high mmr your a good player, it makes no sense to call someone solo Qing in high mmr a bad player (i know u didnt say that). Swfs arent OP because the players in them are just, SOOO much better then solo Qers.
Their better because its 4 good players that have prepped, are coordinated and on coms. That changes everything. That's a unmatched level of gen rushing and a new a unmatched level of awareness. Which is why there a fat 8% above solo Qers.
48% is almost 10% above there targeted %, you cant really compare it to the Top killers when there stats are bloating off stomping non Swfs.
And four great players should beat most people. That's just logical. I'd never expect to stand a chance against a comp team. They
shouldwin.So a killer playing in high mmr should just feel helpless against a swf and just accept the fact hes gonna lose and theirs nothing he can do about it? Does that not go against the entire point of this game? Lmao, so nerf the bloated killers that are the only ones that stand a chance against a Swf in high mmr because there over performing against Solo Qers, but dont touch swf because 4 good players in a group are suppose to win? lmao
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You issue. No offense. It's the same it's been for years now.
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When did the MMR ceiling disappear in this game?
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Facts. No mobility killers is basically you handicapping. In the old strategy games like Age of Empire or Starcraft where you can change a handicap setting, you're doing this to yourself if you don't pick mobility killers.
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Even so mobility killers arent that good and sit at the bottom of the tier list (by power strenght) like sadako, demogorgan they have mobility but they suck even with it.
Mobility is one of key things that is strong but it depends what kind of mobility like wraith isnt that strong sithout good addons but his mobility with stealth keeps him in the middle ground and sadako has great map wide mobility but her stealth sucks and she has no chase power so she is very bad unless you have super good sence for macro gameplay like onepumpwille that you can get some condem value with her.
Demo has solid antiloop like shread is just straight dash that can be easily baited and crouch teched but its still only good part of his power on him while his portals are bad and its way better to place them less and use him more as m1 speed killer with shread.
Best form of mobility is the one that you can control and use to catch up to survivors or even attack from it like blight,kaneki,billy,dracula,vecna these are good mobility powers or wraiths (lets you get close and catch up or get even hits).
So one thing is mobility (demogorgon) and another is Mobility (blight,billy).
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I mean yeah if the mobility doesn't have lethality then it's basically useless. That's why Blight is so good. I will never stop training and playing as Blight because we all know these survivors only want easy games and overly nerfed new killers. Vecna will get nerfed by all the cry babies.
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Isn’t that a contradiction?
If the “crybabies” get all killers nerfed, then how come Blight is still like that?
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There are crybabies among survivors and killers alike. Let's shine a flashlight on THE FIRST. The crybaby killer might cry more. It might get in the way of an attack.
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The devs themselves have said that they aim for a 60/40 for balance on both sides. This is what they said. Theyve aimed for 60/40 for YEARS these are the people who have alllllll the data, and they've been sticking to their guns for YEARS. Im pretty sure theirs a GOOD reason why they are saying 60/40 is balanced after reviewing ALLLLLL their data for YEARS.This goes both ways.
If you're going to believe BHVR must be right on these decisions because they have the data we don't, then their decision not to nerf perks and/or SWF must also be because they have all the data.
They also never have said that the 60/40 is a rate that applies to every single scenario, but an overall target, and its not their only game balancing metric.
The quote shows @Firellius points
"relatively even"
"horror themed"
"intended killer balance"
They never say '60% is a balanced rate'. It's relatively balanced (not absurdly broken like a 70 to 80 would be, while still keeping the killer a 'force to be reckoned with') and its their intended balance - not a normal balance metric, but what they go for.
You're framing it in the best possible scenario for the survivors and worst for the killer. The survivor has no exhaustion to help escape, no anti-tunnel, no healing to help recover, etc. That's the thing about all out builds (on either side, really), under a perfect scenario they seem extremely powerful, but if another scenario occurs they can become very weak, very fast.
It's possible that build is broken. BHVR has the data and would know for certain, but there's lots of reasons why the build might not succeed.
It's possible its bad game design. If so, its a larger issue with the game.
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There's nothing you can do to hurt specifically high-performing SWF that won't also hurt soloq and average-performing SWF. And again, gen multipliers are not the issue with thise players anyway. They coordinate Endurance perks like WGLF and MfT. Funny enough the people I usually see use perks like Prove Thyself are soloqers. People not on comms can just say "I have Prove Thyself" in pre game chat if they felt so inclined.
If your solo Qing in high mmr your a good player, it makes no sense to call someone solo Qing in high mmr a bad player
There are many people in this forum that do say it, that upper MMR soloqers often get there by riding the backs of SWF.
So a killer playing in high mmr should just feel helpless against a swf and just accept the fact hes gonna lose and theirs nothing he can do about it?
It's like this for both sides. I don't stand a chance against a good Nurse or Blight. It's an auto lose in the lobby.
I've met people with 90% KRs. That means they're basically winning all their matches and are certainly in upper MMR, and they're winning against those 4mans. You can beat those teams if you're good enough. If you're new to upper MMR or relied on cheese to get there then yeah, you're going to lose. As you should. The top players should really only be playing against one another but matchmaking and there only being so many of those people on each server makes that impossible, so you get stomped by the better players when you meet them.
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I just played one as wraith and one as ghost face. Both times i got 3k and let the other person have hatch (probably helped that i had indoor maps) Havent had too mich trouble with low tier killers so far. But i suppose after looping something like henry for several rounds in a row theyd see an m1 killer and be like oh thankfully its just _____
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Buff the likes of Trapper, Ghostface for example and nerf Nurse, Blight. Both sides would be fine with that I think. The difference between weak and strong killers are too big they should aim at closing that gap better then they have before. Look at Myers fun or not (pretty boring if you ask me) he's not awful anymore so why must Trapper always be in bottom tier? Even Pig got a well deserved buff when she was already stronger than Trapper.
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They out right said its for balance.
No, they said that 60% is where they want it to be, while specifically saying that it is only 'relatively even', and that it serves the horror theme.
They never said that 60/40 IS balanced. Only that that's where they want it to be.
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Because blight is very popular from survivors too he is very deffended killer which is pretty strange because I saw and even disscused with some mainly survivor players that blight is busted beyond and they still were chill about him compare to killers like springtrap which got more hate.
Dam I even saw some people that post heavy survivor sided posts to deffend blights hug tech which I find super strange but blight has big cult and he is very liked and deffended by not only his mains but by like half of the survivor player base which I find ridicilus but its truth.
I believe he has even huge fun base in devs lines because of how long he held his busted addons and hug tech for long time like two years and has one of highest kill rates in top mmr and is one of strongest killers (by comp players strongest, they consider him to be even stronger than nurse and thats just now when blight is arguably on his lowest he ever been and still he beats nurse), you will find on average more hate towards the bubba from survivors than to blight even when he is just ghoul on roids and cheap drogs.
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Yea well Surv ain't much better, just look at the crock of ######### new Killer they released, another no skill, high output Killer that's designed for comp SWF's. Game is miserable all around because of SWF and that's not likely to change, just continue to get worse.
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