"I just want more Blight and Nurse" posts

Even though he's basically a ranged nurse he's unique enough that it's a breath of fresh air

As a survivor who loves playing against vecna/henry, I'll never fully comprehend why they're complaining about him. He's incredibly fun to go against and offers way more counterplayer then facing off against a nurse and or a Blight. Infact, I literally made a whole forum to help people engage and deal with his power. Of course, it wasn't interacted with much, which is probably a reason why it's so buried, but it is there.

This is one the best chapters DBD has put out in awhile and even though that's my personal opinion, I do recognize that Vecna has IMMENSE potential. The first 2 weeks of new killers being released is always rocky because of people figuring out how to play against them, like Ghoul or Krasue. But, this isn't going as terrible as it did with Ghoul/Krasue because Henry isn't high mobility killer.

There are SOMETHING'S about Henry that does need to get nerfed or changed, such as his ability to mori survivors and ways to remove his tokens against a player so it's more difficult too mori players; but, overall, I think he's decently balanced and very possible to survive against. Players just need to pay attention to audio ques, that is unironically his biggest weakness.

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/463335/the-real-vecna-guide-the-first-henry#latest (The forum for anyone wondering.)

Gen-regression , Aura Reading and Hex Builds are the only good perks left what else are they supposed to use? Anti-loop? people cry about that, Haste? People cry about that as well so what are killers supposed to run that's fun?

You cant counter the footsteps, unless survs are playing without audio springtrap announces his arrival like 15 meters beforehand. As springtrap you cannot counter a checkspot (unless with an orbital but the moment you as a survivor hear the laugh you can just position to aviod it) so you are forced to keep running the loop until the pallet is droped, idk what perks you can use to counter that cuz Id be very interested in knowing how a oerk can stop either of those aspects.

And btw when springtrap released people said he was OP but after people adapted everyone found out he was mid as hell and honestly a pushover, maybe thats why people like to face him.

He is fun and unique to play as*, he is unique to play against, but not fun.

"and makes them think" yet killers are made to think as little as possible

"The same people reasonably giving Feedback on The First are the same people that have giving reasonable feedback on Nurse and Blight for years." And you know this how? Just Because? Also what does this add to the discussion about The First?

"The cooldown is by far too low and just makes this killer super easy to play and super annoying to face cause the killer itself doesn't get punished at all for missing his attacks."

His cool down is low because he has to hit 4 times to get a down. No punishment for missing? Have you even played against him? Holding W would not be as strong against him if missing was "not punishing" missing slows you down a lot on a 110 killer if you do not take advantage of his mistakes that's on you.

"Also the only counterplay is guessing. And as survivor its not a 50-50 guess, its way worse. Thats also why hold-W is not a bit of an counter caused this is 100% predictable. LoS isn't much of an counter. Its the same as against Nurse."

Yes its EDUCATED guessing his power should not be 100% predictable or counterable as he would just be like ghostface or trapper at the bottom where the survs have control of YOUR power.

Los is a great way to counter him as he has to guess even more it also tends to work better when people path differently and NOT predictably. This is why game sense is important you need to be able to read your opponent basic PVP fundamentals.

"Counterplay is again just hoping that the killer will make a mistake, but it just doesnt matter if he does. That's why playing against the First isnt fun at all. Its just another illusion."

No its not just hoping they suck its about good positioning and understanding game sense on both sides as well as a lot of shift W.

No the only illusion here is the one you have put on yourself leading yourself into thinking that there is not way to play against him when clearly its just you don't seem to want to engage with the game.

I'd much prefer to face Vecna, over Nurse and Blight tbh lol

Generally its not a good call, no, but it is when you last second juke (much like vs nurse) to throw off his aim. When leading shots, someone going the opposite direction takes the most compensation, as its the least likely direction. Its something that specifically affects ground/location targeted attacks (and orbitals) since it doesn't involve running into a moving projectile. That said, doing it too early is generally a bad idea and can be accounted for by the killer, so its more part of a mindgame than an "answer."

Pvp interactions aren't supposed to be "if x, then y" statements. Part of what makes it fun about playing against another human in general is the unpredictability of their reactions, and how their reactions get impacted by your own (showing patterns, feeding info regarding your own, etc.) Its supposed to be about in the moment decision making where a play like running the exact wrong way can be the right call when its the last thing the opponent expects, but retaining that such a move is still a bad call the rest of the time (especially if the killer predicts it.) Its a similar nuance that you see when facing the nurse.

Now that you have a Steam Deck, that option is available

He is probably my second most favorite killer to play against right now, (after Billy).

I really enjoy games against him. You just have to play like you would play against Nurse…
He is weaker and arguably more difficult Nurse.

Mhhh… hot topic…

the circle of nerf killer on release always reminds me on the story of the boy who called wolf…

Is Vecna strong? Yes… yes he is…

Is Vecna Op? Maybe his cd on his ability….

But the big problem I see here is the following:

Do you guys still remember the Killer "Springtrap"?

The second this Killer released my social media exploded with topics like: "Nerf Springtrap" When you watched the videos you saw two things. First was the not intended bug that he was silent when he tped. The second one was (becareful sarcasm) the permanent easy to hit mortar axes.

If you watched these Videos you could clearly see that yes it was possible to hit sick axes over walls but it wasn´t that common in a normal game.

From time to time it needs "time" to see what a new Killer really can and can´t do but screaming for nerfs after the first hour is kinda… annoying and will lead to such topics as this discussion.

Maybe they wouldnt have needed to remove her infection on hook if killers didn't throw a collective tantrum at the mere thought of an anti-tunnel system being implemented. Ghoul still the easiest killer to play and get insanely easy wins for almost a year now. Catering to survivors btw.

Maybe it's more about survivior only resources mean nothing to them?

Windows and pallets are guaranteed hits for Vecna.

There is no counterplay other than just "be unpredictable", do weird movement etc.

We need real counterplays.

The devs cater to both sides. When that catering turns to pandering also changes on a case by case basis. This type of thinking is why nobody can ever see eye to eye on balance, and why so many aspects of the game suffer from unrelated issues elsewhere. The entire point of the argument that killers starting strong and getting kneejerk nerfs emphasizes the point that a new killer (supposedly) means a new playstyle, both for and against.

Its actually new content for both sides, but one side's experience is voluntary while the other's is mandatory. That means that how they perform in early days relies entirely on the ability for killers to adapt to using them, and survivors adapting to playing against them. These results will always be affected by those who refuse to adapt (on either side,) so opinions that understand their nuances and interactions are more valuable than ones that just dislike a killer and fostering frustration at having to see them so much. When the latter is catered to instead, the killer becomes overnerfed and quickly forgotten, and we go back to the usually scheduled stale meta.

The main way to improve killer variety is to improve viability. There will always be people who prefer the same old, but by assuming that is the default, you prevent those wanting new playstyles to adapt to from getting much of a chance in the current format of the game. Moving away from outcome based grading being the singular method would also help with this, but we're stuck with this MMR system until they admit it was a failed experiment at this point.

For the record, this isn't to say no killer is oppressive, or needs changes, its more about identifying how often changes in the game are from a lack of adaptation than addressing actual concerns, and how that has consequences to variety. A common acronym for Meta is that its the Most Effective Tactic Available, meaning that its approaches to expanding it should be equal parts uplifting other strategies while diminishing the very best. Normalizing, not just trying to bring down outliers one by one.

The anti tunnel system is actually a good example of how they can't think these things through, as conceptually it wanted to be a combination of carrot and stick, which is the correct approach to take. Unfortunately they don't seem to understand the ways tunneling affects the core foundation of the game, nor how the foundation affects tunneling, so they weren't able to come up with the right carrots or sticks and just gave up. The same happens every time they do a rework to a killer that either doesn't help, doesn't improve the situation for either side, or just flat out makes them objectively worse (like the infamous Twins one.) The issue is much more systemic than just which side the devs supposedly exclusively cater to, and kneejerk reactions to content seem to discourage them from even trying to do things right. So we end up with the same handful of killers in every match.

I play survivor everyday, but i actually try to learn counterplay to every killer and i don't complain everytime i get tunneled or slugged, which btw doesn't happen in every game like survivors tend to say.

So no im not out of touch. I have almost 5000 hours in this game, most of it on survivor. I also play Solo Q or with another friend, which means we still have 2 soloQ teammembers. What i notice is the biggest issue is the OTHER teammembers.

Instead of complaining about every single little thing, people should try to learn counterplays, maybe watch streamers with thousands and thousands of hours how they play and loop tiles. This game isn't casual anymore. Maybe behaviour needs to give casual people their own gamemode.

You can downvote me all you want, but maybe its time to accept the fact that the biggest issue in this game might just be the other survivors. Game screws you by putting you with survivors that might be hiding in corners, blessing totems, breaking bones and doing everything else than gens. Looping lasts for 10 seconds and then they DC.

About Krasue i said she did have issues. She was oppressive, but she didnt have to be gutted. Right now she feels awful to play. I don't think i've seen one in weeks if im honest.

• edited the Krasue part in. forgot about it.

DId i once meantion its easy to learn all that? No i didnt. You won't learn this game in a day or even 2. You need to put hours in. Do you think i escaped every single match when i was new? Do you think i wasnt hiding in corners and running into walls when i was new?

I am ALL for behaviour giving new players a gamemode that puts them with other new players and killers. This way they arent put against 5000 hour killers and killers arent put against 5000 hour survivors. It would be awesome if there was a mode where lets say under 100 hour players could play together and learn. Sadly this isnt the case, so MMR might screw you over badly in this game.

This game takes time to learn, im still learning new stuff.

At least 50% of the DbD playerbase consists of people who will throw their toys in the sandbox the moment something goes against them.