The *REAL* Vecna Guide (The First/Henry)
First and Foremost, I'd like to open with what I've observed and experience playing against Henry. This DOES NOT have all the information needed to make dealing with "The First" or "Henry" easier. He is a VERY new killer, so obviously, no one has all the details; but I'd like to gather both knowledge and experience for those who might be struggling with him or would like to learn his counter-play.
(At the time I am writing this, I am uncertain if the Wiki has added all the necessary information; so, be aware of that.)
Second, this is not a forum for arguments. Please, DO NOT come into this forum and start debating. This is just an informational guide gathered by first hand experience, if you would like chime in on what you've seen or gathered; then feel free, but please don't argue. It gets nowhere.
Third, this is somewhat of a guide; so this will be very, very long.
Be respectful and kind to one another, we're all going through this chapter together, so there's no reason why we shouldn't be able to work as what this forum is supposed to be: A community. Now, with all things out of the way, let's begin.
1. Vines/Mind Invasion
We all know Henry's M1 attacks with vines; what most people should know is about his M2.
His M2, or what I like to call "Mind Invasion" allows him to spawn vines within a given radius and build up his "Mind Invasion Meter." When he successfully lands 2 Mind Invasion attacks, World Breaker will activate which will switch up how Henry's Mind Invasion works against you. (I will cover World Breaker a bit later.)
Mind Invasion Meter: When you spawn in a match, everyone will have a clock-looking meter surrounding their character on the left side of the screen; there will be 4 notches surrounding your character picture showing you how deep Henry has gotten in your mind. For every successful Mind Invasion attack landed on your character, a quarter of the meter will fill. — This cannot be reversed or reduced, so it is imperative you pay attention to how deeply you are affected; because when that meter is full, Henry can kill you.
This is also shown by a lightning-esque effect around your character's head, which becomes more prominent the more you are affected by Henry's Mind Invasion attack.
Regarding how Henry can mori you, I need a bit more information; but I have generally experienced and speculated that 3 conditions must be met.
- You must be on Death Hook.
- Your Invasion Meter must be full.
- You must be downed by his Mind Invasion attack; which will leave you vulnerable. (This is shown by your character floating in the air and twitching, to which Henry can then walk up and kill you.)
I have not figured out a way if you can be saved before he kills you; but I can only assume you can. (Of course, how it worked in Stranger Things is not the same in an Asym game like DBD.)
Things to Know/Remember
— There will always be an audio que before those vines spawn in, giving you a split second to figure out where they'll spawn. (Assume that if you were running to a pallet, they'll spawn infront of you, behind or generally where your character was going to be.)
— Henry CANNOT spawn these vines beyond his TR (Terror Radius). If i had to guess, his range is roughly 20 - 30 meters starting from him and to the near edges of his TR.
— If World Breaker is not active, these vines WILL NOT damage you; they will only build the Mind Invasion Meter.
— This attack can be held. For how long, I'm not certain. It happened to me once or twice while in chase against Henry and caught me off guard.
— This attack can destroy Pallets. Do not assume because you can vault a pallet, you're safe. Keep making Distance, keep being unpredictable.
It is possible to dodge the attack, you just need to jerk your character to a different direction than you were originally moving. The biggest counter to Mind Invasion is remaining unpredictable, don't constantly keep jumping through vaults or throwing pallets. Henry CANNOT attack when using Mind Invasion but the cooldown between that and his M1 is Negligent, so don't think that because he used Mind Invasion, he cannot M1 you; that's a mistake you will regret thinking
Overall, try breaking LOS (Line of Sight) as much as possible; the more you do, the harder it'll be for Henry to predict or assume where you're going. Perks that shut down aura reading/hide scratch marks really excel here.
2. WorldBreaker/Grand Father Clocks
Remember how I said that if Henry lands two successful Mind Invasion attacks, Worldbreaker will activate? Let's get back to that.
So, the game says that Henry needs Two Tokens to activate Worldbreaker. This is by successfully landing two Mind Invasion attacks. It can be on anyone, but it will usually be on the person that's in chase, so be aware of that.
Once doing so, a clock in the top middle of the screen will appear and you will hear a dull, reverberating grandfather clock chime ring in your ear; your screen will change to a reddish, darker tint possibly referencing the Mindworld from Stranger Things Season 4/5. This when the game changes a bit.
First and foremost, That clock in the middle of the screen tells you how long World breaker will last. I've usually never waited out the timer, but I've speculated that it can last from 1 - 2 minutes. And trust me when I say this, You don't want that to happen.
"Mind Invasion" or Henry's M2 will no longer build the Meter on the left-hand side of the screen, but will start dealing damage. This can be handled the same way that was previously expressed, just be aware that you can now start taking damage now. Keep trying to break LOS.
The WorldBreaker timer can be reduced by using the Grandfather Clocks highlighted in a white aura scattered around the map. When in use, they'll play some bass and snare music and you'll visibly see the clock's arrow move at an accelerated rate. (Which, personally, I think they should've added "Running up that Hill" but that's just my opinion IMO.)
Multiple people can use the Grandfather clocks, but it is ill-advised. Only one player should be reducing the timer, other's should be focused on gens if not in chase. I've experienced multiple matches where too many players were on the clock and we ended up losing from lack of gen pressure. From what I've observed, the clock does not move any faster if Multiple people are on the clock.
— NOTE: There is a specific section of the clock on the top of the screen that cannot be reduced. (Roughly around the Roman 9 [ IX ] Roman 12 [ XII ] Once you've gotten the timer down to that much, you will be kicked off the clock and it will be resealed in vines. Henry's voice will echo and his power usage will be shortened. Congratulations.
Things to Know/Remember
— There will always be an audio cue when Worldbreaker is activated. When this happens, the world will take a reddish tint.
— The Grandfather clocks will be activated when Worldbreaker is active. Only one person should be reducing the time, everyone else needs to focus on gens. PLEASE, use the GUI on the left-hand side of the screen to see if a player is interacting with a killer item.
— When World Breaker is reduced, henry will have an audio cue and all Grand-Father clock will be re-sealed.
3. The Upside Down/Upside Down Strike
Now we'll get to Henry's extra ability, traversing the upside down. Between every 30 - 40 seconds, Henry possess the ability to move in the upside down, where he'll sink through the ground and his speed will increase drastically.
There is an audio cue when he decides to go underground and it sounds like a wet squelch, as if you were playing with slime.
When Henry is in the upside down, from what I've observed, he has the ability to see auras of everything around him; letting him locate pallets, vaults, objects, survivors, everything. To what extent or radius, I'm also unsure of.
When Henry is traversing the upside down, you can both hear and see him. It will be a dark, bloody stain moving around on the ground with similar noises as if you were dragging your feet through water; you'll know when he's approaching you by the unusual sound.
From what I've gathered, Henry only has one option in this mode as he's incapable of harming you unless he uses what I've coined "The Upside Down Strike." When he uses the Upside Down Strike, a red ring of about 15 - 20 meters will surround him and the dark, bloody stain will expand until it reaches the outer limit of the red ring; then, vines will rise out of the ground, striking any players still within range of the attack.
During this, Henry will slow down significantly allowing players to escape the range if their vigilant enough; however, if they are struck by this, Two things will happen.
— If Worldbreaker is not active, any player caught in the radius will have half of their Mind Invasion Bar filled, prompting Worldbreaker to activate; but you will not be harmed.
— If Worldbreaker is active, any player caught in the radius will lose a health state.
This move is good for crowd control and if Multiple survivors are in a area they cannot easily escape from; but from what I've observed, that's mostly on indoor maps and it's fairly easy to get out of it. If you are struck by it, assume hitboxes and server latency, lol. — It's better for mobility and allowing you to get from one end of the map to another.
After using Upside Down Strike, Henry will reappear in the overworld again and be fully capable of attacking with Mind Invasion or his M1
Things to Know/Remember
— There is an audio cue when Henry is traversing the upside down, it is different from when WorldBreaker or Mind Invasion is used, so be aware of that. Assume that when you hear it, usually after he's done hooking someone; he's moving to another location, especially towards gens.
— Henry gets slowed down when using the Upside Down Strike and it can be dodged by getting out of it's range as soon as possible. Henry is capable of shifting the red circle to some degree, as he's not fully immobilized when coming out the Upside down, but you can escape it.
— If Worldbreaker is not active, any player caught in the radius will have half of their Mind Invasion Bar filled, prompting Worldbreaker to activate; but you will not be harmed.
— If Worldbreaker is active, any player caught in the radius will lose a health state.
This is all the information I've gathered about Henry so far and I've got to say, he is one of the best killers I've faced in a LONG while. I've had a lot of fun facing off against him, he doesn't feel unfair, his attacks have good (pretty obvious) counterplay, his voice acting and audio cues are incredible and he has immense potential.
Although there is more I'd like to express as a stark comparison to previous chapters, where those did not feel as fun to play because of how killers were set up and how their powers are used; this is not the forum for that.
If you have any more information, let me know and post it down below; we should all be there to help each other understand and improve. There could be things that I missed that you might have.
Comments
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So there's something that's been bothering me since the PTB and this could be a placebo case but I swear I read something that said this was a thing
Supposedly, when Worldbreaker is active - Henry's power attacks come out faster than they do outside of it. I swear I saw this in a loading screen tip on the PTB.
I'm not saying this is a fact as it is not mentioned anywhere in his power description but the fact they intentionally left out the mori mechanic from that (Confirmed on dev livestream) I'm not entirely sure it's fully accurate.
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Honestly, I'm not quite sure whether this is true or not. I haven't noticed a difference when Henry uses his M2 Inside Worldbreaker or outside of it; but that would be something to look into since that's a VERY critical detail regarding how to counter him and deal with him.
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thanks for taking the time to cobble this together.
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It's entirely possible it's a cominbation of me mis-remembering a loading screen tip from the PTB + my own experiences vs Henry (I always seem to find it easier dodging him outside of worldbreaker than when it's active, I can't describe why at the moment).
But it's something to look into I suppose.
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Lockers are pretty strong against Upside Down Strike.
If you can’t safely avoid the attack, a locker is your best bet. Better to take the M1 than an active Worldbreaker.5 -
maybe it has something to do with latency; some people are finding a couple hits to be inconsistent but who knows
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Yeah latency is playing a part for sure sometimes, I feel like I'm just outside of the vine ring on the floor and from time to time I still get hit.
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Ah, now that's something EXTREMELY good to know. Thanks for that, will be trying it next match I get into
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no worries. if you want to go all in: take Head On too. You high likely get away for free
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Oh my god, that is an ingenious idea. However, I get the feeling it would only work once lol; once you get hit with head on, you kinda get weary of that one survivor to avoid getting struck with it again.
You are very welcome. I figured some people should know the way to play around, play with or counter vecna.
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It is possible to dodge the attack, you just need to jerk your character to a different direction than you were originally moving. The biggest counter to Mind Invasion is remaining unpredictable.
Agree with being unpredictable but I wouldn't call this a dodge. Once the killer sends the m2 there isn't enough time to get out of the radius if he actually lands it underneath you, if the killer predicts you will do this you still get hit. That's not you dodging, its the killer missing.
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Does anyone know the out of plane range for the vine attack? I had Henry place vines on a wall and hit me from shockingly far away on a few occasions while playing surv last night.
I'm wondering:
a) Is it intentional that the vine attack can be placed on walls or is this a bug? For some reason I thought this attack was only meant to come out of the floor, similar to ranged M2 attacks of other killers.
b) If it is intentional, how far away from the wall do I need to be to not get hit with the vine attack? There were times when I'd be in the middle of a Hawkins hallway (those are pretty wide) and a vine attack would hit a wall next to me and connect with me.
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People really seem to be missing this. He's also 4.4, so zig zagging is just going to get you zoned into an M1. This isn't Nurse where she's slower than the survivor.
You can be unpredictable to a point, but the zoning is completely free for this killer. I've had chases where I dodged 4 or 5 vine attacks and it still ended up being a 30 second chase because of how spammable the ability is. It's not healthy. Needs to at least be on a token system a la Blight where you get 5 chances and then go into a cooldown.
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Not to mention the fact that this Killer's built in counterplay is basically mandatory if you want to stand a chance. Not that I'm complaining I do like the fact that for once a built-in counterplay is actually worth doing and meaningful (without completely crippling the Killer like say Xeno) but still it's free gen stall on top of everything you just said
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It's a gen stall that really adds up. Essentially a free PGTW every minute.
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UPDATE 2
So. I'm here again with another update for Henry/Vecna after a bit more information gathering and playing against him. Im sure by now, everyone has probably got a good grasp on how to deal with him or not. It's roughly been about a week since his release, so I'll go over what I've confirmed and what still needs more data.
1. @Brokenbones was correct. His Upside Down Strike Does come out faster when Worldbreaker is active. I had been specifically making sure to pay attention to when it's active and when it's not and it is Significantly easier to evade his attack when Worldbreaker isn't active then when it is.
Though, it's not impossible to get out of the range when WorldBreaker is active, it's much, much more difficult. I've also noticed the ring appears to be somewhat larger when Worldbreaker is active.
2. I've already confirmed this previously, but I'll reiterate for brevity sake. The clock does not move faster when multiple people are on. I wanted to reconfirm this fact to assure that I wasn't just throwing something out there without any factual evidence, and trust me; I've done it multiple times. It does not move any faster. So, just to reconfirm, do not have multiple people on the clock. You'll lose pressure and you will likely end up losing that match.
3. I've also confirmed that for Henry to Mori you, you have to meet these conditions.Your Invasion Meter must be full.You must be downed by his Mind Invasion attackHenry can only mori you in world breaker. (not including the mori offering.)
I've noticed that he was able to kill people without them being on Death Hook, but I'll have to play a few more matches and get lucky enough to see it happen. Maybe other people have this knowledge.
4. For those wanting to know how to properly counter Henry. I've noticed that he has about a 4 - 5 second cooldown between each M2/ Mind Invasion attack, so every time you here that sharp shrill sound/audio cue, start counting between the time it spawns in and the next one. Knowing cooldowns is irrefutably one of the most important factors in learning how to play as a killer and against a killer.5. As @Senaxu previously said, Lockers are also a viable counter against the Upside Down Strike, but as you would with a Billy or a Bubba, you'll need to time it properly otherwise, they'll grab you out the locker and it'll be a free Hook for them. I fully agree with the notion that it's better to take a Health State then have Worldbreaker active.
6. This is incredibly important, so I highly implore you all to pay attention here. World Breaker will AUTOMATICALLY activate if Henry uses an M2 against someone who has their Mind Invasion Meter full. I've seen this happen multiple times. Not exactly sure why that is, but it is incredibly dangerous for someone who has their clock full to be attacked by that move.
Obviously, that'll mean World Breaker will activate and they can be killed. That means that Henry has a built in snowball effect as once that happens, you'll have to run to the clocks to deactivate the power or attempt to save that person from being killed.
Bodyblocking is somewhat effective but, since Henry's M2 is an aimed attack, I'd be more inclined to focus on the gens.
Honestly, the safest way to avoid being mori'd is to hop into a locker depending on where your hook state is because then they'll HAVE to hook or slug you; and seeing as how Henry cannot hit you with his Mind Invasion when you're downed. It's a safer bet then hoping you can run him for long enough; those hitboxes can be nasty if they choose not to agree with you.
Hopefully, all the information i've gathered is able to help somebody. I really have been enjoying this chapter, so if I find anything else out; I'll keep you all posted.2 -
I KNEW IT
The game literally does not mention this anywhere in his power description. The only reason I had an inkling of a guess was due to a loading screen tip that is EASILY MISSABLE.
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LMAO. After you said it, I decided to test the theory and quickly found out that, yes, what you said was true. I lost that match but the information I gained from it was Immensely valuable since I used for next match, which was another Henry.
Sometimes, I do pay attention to the loading since they have helpful hints against killers you never faced; but it's always so randomized that I don't ever bank on seeing something I don't already know.2 -
So the only counterplay is still hoping for bad aim. Much fun.
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Please don't reduce or scrub down the information that was collected here for everyone to see to such a narrow point of view, not only does that not help anyone, it especially doesn't help you and lessens the impact of what is being gathered here for everyone else.
I will fully admit, this information won't magically change the tide of how you face him, but it information has help me countless times against henry, infact, I have more wins against him than I do losses because of all the things that I've gathered and placed on display here.
I won't say "Just because your frustrated" because I've been there too, who knows how many times I complained about Krasue and Ghoul because they were just too strong; but what I will say is that if you're not willing to accept help, you've got your own issue to deal with.
That being said, that's all I have, so.0 -
You really have to play like hes a nurse 2.0
Which idk why anyone can enjoy playing against him.
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Vecna (henry) is super overrated like he needs two hit to have even some power (harmless issue) and without activated clocks he is just 110% speed killer whoc can spawn his attacks but get slowed down a lot. He is only almost good as nurse if he can hit all his shots (or atleast every socond one) but in reality this isnt possible from human and his attacks are easy to be avoided unless survivor doesnt think and runs in straight predictiable line.
His mobility isnt that great either, the speed isnt bad but the exit time makes this super unuseable as catch up power like vecna form D&D or wraiths cloak and his hitbox when exiting is easy to avoid by just holding W. His power doesnt work well if someone abuses hooked survivor and loops you around the hook.
In terms of raw power he is little worse or same as pyramidhead but phead can atleast play as m1 while being 5% faster and doesnt need to use his power that much like henry, his potencial is very high but same goes for pyramidhead or uknown if they dont miss and predict well these killers would be super strong but thats not something human nature can do reliably so this is just a dream.
He is easily juked and requires huge skill fro mkiller palyer more than billy or blight to be effective just overated killer.
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Or just be unpredictiable unlike for nurse his close hits that nearly missed will slow him down compare to nurse nearly blinking to you she will most likely hit you so he can be juked quite well and he can spam his power but gets slowed a lot and unless he hits often he will loose on gens because he doesnt have any good power if he is missing.
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Its not disrespecting help. All your information is nice to have, for people that dont know how to analyze this killer. Everyone else figured out that much by themselfs pretty fast. But it just doent account to any viable counterplay, thats the issue.
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Youre just agreeing with me. Thing is, good players just dont miss much at all. And hes not that hard to aim.
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They miss just look at hens he missed many times that delay is very noticiable and survvior get warning too so there is enough time to get out, all this killer require is same thing as pyramidhead but vecna requires it bit more and thats good prediction of survivors pathing which is very hard thing.
If you miss for long time and you waste clock and you miúst get two hits to start new clock time and than you can damage someone so he is very skill based killer and I would say one of top hardest in the entire game more than blight.
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Just a pointer. I've been playing henry and when you get someone to float ready for a mori, if left alone long enough then they will drop to the ground in the dying state.
I haven't tested whether this is decided by time in that state or if the drop is determined by the killer moving a certain distance away. But survivors can be spares if henry leaves them alone. Idk if survivors could bodyblock or blind a killer for long enough to actively prevent the mini mori if the killer was determined to trigger it though.
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I only ever saw this mentioned by one of the forum users here, who claimed that the vine attack is faster when in worldbreaker mode, but I am pretty positive that is not true. When playing him I feel no difference, and there is also nothing mentioned on the official DBD wiki, which would normally have info like that.
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- The most effective counter is to be unpredictable. If you're in an "open" area, you're in the safest place on the map. If Vecna is patient (few Vecna are), then it's difficult to dodge. Pallets and windows (unlike any other killer) are to be avoided... but they are EXCELLENT for creating misdirections... run towards a pallet and at the last second change direction... it works 80% of the time (except with patient Vecna).
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Can I ask how you gained all this information? Because from my own experience, and according to the official DBD wiki, some of it is not true. I am positive there is no difference between the delay outside and inside of worldbreaker mode, and the circle also isn't any bigger when in worldbreaker mode.
Plus worldbreaker mode's first phase does finsih faster the more survivors you have on the clock, the increase is just much less noticeable with every additional survivor on a clock.
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Sorry, I don't come on here often enough so I didn't see your message until today.
Most of the information I've gathered here is through experience and observation. Since this chapter is fairly new, so, I run into Henry quite often and often try to understand how to counter/play against him if I can help it and I thought I'd spread what I've gathered to others so that we can pool our knowledge together and figure out everything about Henry.
I fully admit that some of the information might not be true, I even prefaced this with my first and second update. I don't have all the knowledge and I don't have all the answers and That was the purpose of this forum. To gather knowledge about Henry so that anyone who sees it would know how to deal with him in some way.
But, I don't just use one match as a resource to assume his power/abilities; I play several matches against him (if the MMR is on my side) and observe any differences from those last matches. If all points match up, then to me, it's a fact, if it varies then I post my experience BUT, I ensure that people know that what I know might not actually be the truth and most people who've commented or up-voted my forum seemed to comprehend that.
I won't dispute or try to argue about what may or may not be true. If anything I've said is inaccurate, disproven, or wrong, then that's what it'll be. At the time of me making this forum, I was unsure if the Wiki had all the answers we needed and it IS still missing some information, so, I shared my experience to help others with countering Henry and the goal was accomplished.
If I'm wrong, I'm wrong lol. But, do know that our experiences aren't the same, so what you've experience isn't the same as me.0