Killswitch urgently needed
So, the devs need to killswitch either turn back the clock, or the wraith. Just had a game against a wraith where some bright spark has figure out that if wraith uses turn back the clock while cloaked, it instantly uncloaks him allowing for instant hits on gens.
6 hook states at 5 gens. No thankyou.
Comments
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Have a question: Do you remember what add ons the wraith had? There's an add on where if they kick a gen while cloaked the immediately uncloak.
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This is intended. Running the Serpent add on makes Wraith uncloak when kicking things or damaging generators. Its interaction with TBTC is intentional
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Didnt look at the add ons but yeah guess it must have been
Edit: messaged the guy and he did mention about finally finding a use for "that" add on so yeah I guess it is
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There is addon for wraith the brown one i think that makes wraith uncloak when he damages the gen and if combined with one of vecnas perks
"Resist as they might, time marches on, and your master plan comes closer to fruition."
After hooking a Survivor, for 40/50/60 seconds, press the Active Ability button to make a target generator within 20 meters explode, lose -10 % progress, and start regressing.
if the wraith has clear los on that gen and is cloaked and uses this timed perk he uncloaks from that addon
- Breaking Breakable Walls or pallets
by any means, or performing the Damage Generator action on incomplete Generators will cause you to automatically uncloak.
So combination of both of these things (perk+ addon) make wraith able to uncloak without ringing the bell and there are requirement he has to hit to be able to do this.
First is getting hook to activate Turn back the clock perk and second is having line of sight on gen that is not regressing in 20 meters range to than press Active ability button 2 (any key the game has set for, basekit is E but I have camera turn on that so I switch it to G) and the gen will get 10% regression and wraith will uncloak, thats all.
This post is just frustration someone get when he saw it without knowing it, personaly I would be frustrated too because cheaters in these days can do wonders in DBD so its hard to know what is legit and whats not.
Playing DBD in these days is like watching as a kid Fact or fiction and guessing if its fact or fiction.
6 - Breaking Breakable Walls or pallets
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that's a pretty cheeseball interaction it's definitely getting removed. Wraith uses to open lockers fast and ignore BT i expect this will be dealt with soon.
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Regardless of setup it circumvents wraith's power limitation. Wraith can instantly uncloak when kicking a gen because he's still stuck in an animation for a few seconds and people get chance to run. When using TBTC he instantly, silently uncloaks and can hit straight away that is not balanced
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Its just a wraith he can hit ayou and what he can do next?
Be m1 killer and how many times he can do this? Few per match because what he needs for this isnt very common so I dont think it needs nerfs and tbh if you look around and are you aware you will spot wraith in time and on indoors he cant do it effectively and you will see him in majority of cases before he sees that gen and can spam that abibility 2 buttun.
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It really depends on whether TBTC is meant to be considered the same thing as any other Break action or its own special thing. If it's the former then Serpent is intended to work with it in the same way that Dissolution works with Serpent + the addon that gives Wraith a Terror Radius while cloaked. If the latter, then it's a bug and it may or may not get patched in the future.
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I don't think it's necessarily such a "BAD thing", Certain killers have certain unique interactions with perks that give them greater advantages, and that's been a staple of DbD's Build creation since launch. For example:
Nurse, The First, Pyramid Head, Pinhead, The Artist etc, all have Powers that can be used through walls, and benefit Greatly from Aura Revealing perks.
Plague Gets unique benefit from Terminus in the endgame, because when survivors cleanse with Terminus Active, they just cleanse the infection but remain Broken.
Hag, Trapper and Singularity get extra value from No Way Out and Remember Me due to being able to Teleport to the gates, or in trappers case, use Iridescent Stone to trap the gate switches so the traps reset 20 seconds after being disarmed or triggered.
Doctor with his top 2 Calm Add-ons and Monitor & Abuse can make his TR only 10m after using a static blast.
Myers/Shape, Alien, Wraith can all use add-ons + Vault Speed perks to make them vault windows 2-5x faster than survivors can.
Ghost Face with any Gen surveillance perk (perks that show which gens are being worked on) can combine his Drivers License add-on for remote detonating a Gen via stalking for 20% Damage and from 12 more meters away than the effective range of Turn Back the Clock…
Unknown + Teleportation enhancing add-ons + Undetectable Perks = Scariest killer ever!
Honestly, we're Talking about 1 Killer who has 1 unique interaction with 1 perk. Wraith is a mid tier m1 killer at best, this single unique interaction doesn't Break him, hell, it doesn't even put him in the same tier as Nurse, Blight, Ghoul, or even Huntress or Billy… All it does is give him an earlier chance to strike by negating the need to kick the gen himself. This is Hardly broken to the point that anyone should be demanding a Killswitch on either him or the perk.
Besides, the perk itself does only 10% damage to progress, so It's not like he's getting great value here considering he can only do it 8x max per gen, and he only gets a max potential of 12 uses of it. I know you're finding it annoying right now but, when we're talking about Killswitch worthiness, Think back to when Survivors were using the reworked Streetwise to gain infinite charges on items, or When Legion could continuously stack DW mending time with his Filthy Blade add-on… yeah, this 1 killer getting a unique interaction with a new perk, that is no where near as broken as you're making it out to be, is nothing worth killswitching, much less patching out for that matter.
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Hmm it's a grey area but i think the wraith thing is a little different to the examples you've given. A lot of them are one offs and not actually that useful. Like the plague one, terminus literally makes no difference beyond what it would normally do. Killers messing with their terror radius is nothing unusual and a good nurse/pyramid head etc can hit survivors through walls anyway if they predict well enough and use audio cues, the aura reading just makes it easier.
But the wraith one is able to be used repeatedly everytime he hooks someone, it's much worse than your ghostface example because ghost face is visible even when he's undetectable. Wraith is functionally invisible and also faster when cloaked, he can't be detected at a distance while cloaked unless you'replaying on a bright map like coldwind or artists map, his breathing isn't audible over the sound of gen repairs at a distance and it only takes a second to use TBTC and he's instantly flying in at the gen. Even legion has a cool down after using their power to injure. It circumvents the basic limitation of his power 8 times in a match.
My Issue is not with the gen damage, it's curcumventing wraiths power for a free hit with too little chance to react.
If devs thought it was balanced he would have an addon that removes his recovery time and speed decrease while cloaking.
Either way devs can see this and make a decision whether they believe this is balanced or not.
Post edited by HoodedWildKard on7 -
It's easy enough to spot an indetectable killer rolling up on you because they are visible. And it's easy enough to spot a wraith because they usually get right on top of you before they uncloak. But that heat haze is not easily visible at a distance on darker maps, which is most of them. And he doesn't need to get right on top of you because he is circumventing the delay to his uncloak. So it's easy to stay unseen. He isn't slowed or delayed in any way when using TBTC, and every single killer has a delay and/or speed decrease while using their power.
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Still use of this combo is like what few times per match on pure m1 killer,
This addon alone is probably worst addon on wraith because you downt wanna uncloak when you kick gen or break pallet, you will loose speed to catch up and time so this adoon is dog trash and this perk is only good if wraith gets close and has los on gen.
Wraith isnt that hard to spot in open are if you look around and on indoor this combo is almost dead because of los on gens is super limited and its mostly held back by hooks which m1 killers struggle to get and by needing this addon wraith can only equip other good addon so he isnt that strong because wraith without good addons is very predictiable killer who has little power and only his good thing is mobility and stealth but this agaisnt survivors that constantly pay attention in open areas isnt good either, wraith without strong addons is weak killer like high c-tier and he needs perfect plays so I dont see this as something that problematic as nurse with awakened awerenes + starstruck was.
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I don’t think it should be removed you do have to get a hook for it to work and wraith is a very bad killer.
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It doesn't circumvent his power, it actually nerfs it. When wraith comes out of cloak with that add-on (the serpent-soot), he actually only gets 1/4th the speed-boost and lunge distance than if he just uncloaked by ringing the bell. The only reason that Add-on is useful with Turn Back the Clock is that he doesn't have to kick any pallet or gen first, and thus can use it while cloaked with his superior speed to get the drop on a survivor.
However, it's still only good for 1 basic attack, he only gets as many uses out of it as he gets hooks (so, realistically before survivors stop doing gens and going into hiding against the killer… 6 minimum, 8 on average), It doesn't give him insta down or extra lunge range, honestly, the only thing it does is remove the Bell warning sound. Are you telling us that removing that noise really is giving him all the advantages? If you are, he has an add-on for that too.
As for his "invisibility", IDK if you're new to the game or not, And definitely not trying to "Gatekeep" here, but Players have long since learned how to see him coming, even on dark maps, and in all honesty, he could actually use a buff on it because it's very noticeable for most people. Again, none of your complaints warrant a complete killswitch, much less a nerf/rework of the perk or the killer/their add-on's.
Going back to the GF combo since you brought it up again: Drivers License can be used from 32m away, Damages the Gen for 20%, he can do it as many times as he wants without having to hook a survivor first, AND it Blocks the affected gen for 15 seconds… on top of that, the Stalked survivor(s) are now Exposed for 45 seconds! I'd Argue that GF + Drivers License + Hivemind Is a FAR Worse combo… but still not Killswitch Worthy
How does Wraith popping a gen for 10% from up to 20m away, and uncloaking for a basic attack, with no Bell sound, even Compare to that? What makes that Game Breaking enough to Warrant a Killswitch/Nerf?
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I'm familiar with how wraith works. Usually i can spot him, but on darker maps, which is most of them, he isn't easy to spot from a distance, on indoor maps he can just keep hard cover until the last second, pop through a door way and is uncloaked and swinging in the time it takes to trigger TBTC which is about a second. And he can trigger this from a distance, even if you spot him and run off the gen he can still instantly uncloak on the fly using this combo. The massive speedboost he has while cloaked combined with the instant uncloak and minor speed boost after the uncloak when survivors are stuck on a gen usually not in reach of a pallet means guarenteed hits provided he can get a hook or two. Every killer ability in the game slows the killer down somehow, either slowing down during usage, takes time to set up or prevents basic attacks during and/or just after usage. There is a reason for that, it's called game balance.
The ghostie combo is nowhere near as bad, because you can prevent it, ghost face is so easy to spot from a distance so you can reveal him, or get simply get off the gen and run for a pallet, easy to counter. Honestly I'm suprised you bring it up, and even more surprised you say that it's worse. It takes a good few seconds to stalk a survivor AND he won't be so close when he does it because he can never sneak as close as wraith can AND the survivor has to be actually doing the gen. I've literally never had an issue with it because when ghosties use it once, then I'm ready for it and it's so easy to counter. This move that wraith can do the only defence is to not do gens for how a minute after a hook or until he chases someone. You ask if I'm new to the game implying I'm ignorant, but say that this ghostie add on (that I've never seen anyone complain about) is worse than the thing that wraith can do? Right.
Tbh this smells of the usual forum gatekeeping. Something only high skilled survivors can counter, and is an absolute seal club in lower mmr? Seems fine, no problem here. Like I said devs will be able to make the final call. Be interesting to see how things go if more wraiths start trying this trick how good people will be at countering it.
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Truth, the wraith is bad with this addon (that uncloaks him when he breaks something) and only with this perk of vecna he can get some hits but truth is he limits his use because he has just one space for addon and now his best addons are faster uncloak speed purple one or faster break/vault speed but this one gets downed by this brown one or purple speed one.
This addon combo maybe gives some easy hits but wraith is very addon dependent killer and if survivor heals than this isnt that great as regular meta addons on wraith such as faster movement speed while cloaked purple addon,faster uncloak speed purple addon and fater breaking/vaulting speed purple addon, these addons in some combinations or with same addon but lower rarity (best is probably faster uncloak speed with faster breaking/vaulting speed while cloaked addons, they make wraith more versitile and able to use his cloaked form more agressively and effectively).
If wraith gets free hit he still is m1 killer that cant do much on loops without few purple addons I named above so nothing that problematic plus its just few times per match and this build is almost dead on indoor maps.
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The build works best of indoors maps. You can't tell if there is a wraith on the other side of the wall while working a gen. He simply pops in through the door and in under 2 second the gen explodes and he's uncloaked instantly able to hit. The game that prompted me to make this post was on midwich. But it works just as well on lerys, meat plant etc
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Tried this out in customs I don't think this was intended I think this is more of an unintended oversight of the serpent addon by the devs since turn back the clock seems to count as a gen kick it triggers the serpent addon.
I think the devs will just bug fix it in the next patch and not kill switch it like they did when you could block gens permanently with secret project.
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Bruh just cause it doesn't make wraith op doesn't mean its not a Cheese ball strat that shouldn't be fixed. I'm sure next patch devs just will make it wraith will have to physically kick gens to trigger the addon.
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That addon needs rework than like after breaking action your uncloak speed will be faster by solid number because that addon alone is meme addon like padded jaws or that no turn first second billy addon and makes the killer worse than he realy is and without it this addon is dead as it was before it, when you kick something cloaked you want to stay cloaked after it in 99,999999% of times to use your speed to catch up and not to reveal yourself and loose time and distance.
Just shame when something not op that can shift killers addon use is killed right away and pushes people to hard meta but personaly Idc because for me getting 4 hits on open map through whole game while sacrificeing one addon and perk slot isnt worth it unless you meme it or stream to mass tbh, let the devs decide to choose how they want to aproach it I just hope they wont nerf wraith in basekit or butcher that addon because they are capable doing something like “nerf pig” moment even after 10 years of DBD balance experience.
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if it can trigger with dissolution and the beast + serpent, I think it's safe to say this is intended. It's technically a break action, thus, he uncloaks
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I seriously doubt that but we'll find out if they'll fix it or not
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FYI
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Okay great now we know it's not intended and a fix is incoming
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Yeah didn't think they'd let that one slide.
In all seriousness I'm not a survivor stan or a killer stan. I just want to see a balanced game. And that interaction was very cheesey
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Killers get plenty of fun interactions. But this one is unbalanced. I actually decided to test it out in a game, and the result was enough to make me say "yeah, no, this absolutely shouldn't be a thing"
I play a lot of killer and mmr throws some damn good teams my way. I came up against a team of very effecient gen jockeys, all of whom could run chase very well. And I absolutely wiped the floor with them with minimal effort. They were doing gens quick but I applied way too much pressure for them to get enough done. I didn't even need to tunnel or hook camp, i hooked everyone in order twice before i started finishing them.
By the time I'd broken the back of the team (2 dead) they only had me down to 3 gens. Hell i even used the ability mid chase, herded a very skilled, injured toilet paper dwight away from my last hook victim towards a gen i knew was in progress, got right on top of him while cloaked, popped the gen and there was no way for him to get away.
I try to keep an impartial view of this game. Ideally the kill rate should be 60% and survs should die more than they escape. But this particular interaction is wildy unfair.
Post edited by Balrog on-2 -
honestly I think there’s a high chance that this is intended since disillusion works very similarly to this if you’re running both the serpent and beast soot and that’s been in the game for way longer.
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Nah:
This shows it is not intended.
(Or it was intended, but is not intended anymore, who knows…)
But I think that it is more likely that it was never intended, because the interaction seems pretty bonkers. And it can happen that something like this is overlooked with over 40 Killers and it is not like the Serpent-Add Ons were really popular before.
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OK, so it appears that disillusion is the exception rather than the Rule.
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Do you mean dissolution?
If that is the case, then it's a very different interaction. It requires the survivor to take an action to trigger, it is only active for 20 seconds, survivors have a notification that it is active.
And it's not broken tbh. You'll maybe get one free hit out of it but then survivors will be wise to the trick. The TBTC interaction is very spammable and hard to figure out to start off with. You can just keep chaining easy downs off of it. And it puts a ridiculous amount of pressure on gens, since the only way to counter it is to not to gens for a full minute after every hook.
I've no doubt the dissolution interaction was also unintended, but since it isn't such an oppressive problem I don't think anyone's bothered enough about it to complain, let alone for bhvr to put work into a fix. I'm certainly not bothered about it.
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