2v8 needs to see some changes.
Yup thats right, its another post about 2v8.
I hate making a post about 2v8 because any valid complaints I make will just be met with the rancid toxic community down voting it and rage baiting in the comments. However it has to be done in hopes that BHVR finally wakes up and does something about the poor state 2v8 is in.
The issue with 2v8 is the massive discrepancy in efforts required to win for both sides.
Survivors only have to repair 3 additional gens for a total of 8 gens. However, this change is also coupled with a reduction in total repair times, as now each generator only requires 70 seconds to repair instead of the normal 90. this means Survivors in 2v8 have to collectively repair gens in 2v8 for a total of 560 seconds as compared to the normal 450 seconds total in 1v4.
This means that Survivors only have to "work 24.44% harder" to escape. This is without taking the catch up mechanic into account, however that is its own "can of worms".
While Survivors only have to "work 24.44% harder", Killers have to "work 50%% harder" to get 18 hooks states required to get an 6k. so that is double the survivor's efforts to win.
With the raw numbers required to win, lets also considering…
Killers have to work on a map that's nearly double the map area, with double the pallets, with almost double the jungle gym/Chainable/Strong Filler tiles on most maps. This means Killers have double the area they need to pressure and chases can last twice as long. Now there are 2 Killers, so this helps helps greatly, however they can only help with one or the other.
Both Killers are required to patrol separate parts of the map so they don't leave a massive portion of it unpressured, however chases take twice as long. Killers could stick together and end chases much faster, but that leaves a large portion of the map unpressured. So either way, Killers are going to have a harder time doing one or the other.
Killers DO have the ability to remotely hook Survivors, however this barely helps the Killers, since this is only a slight time saver. Even then, you still have the to deal with saves, and they can easily be a massive time loss for Killers if the survivors get the save, especially when Survivors go down under pallet and other Survivors pester the Killer preventing them from picking up and allowing the Survivor enough time to pick themself up.
Survivors pestering Killers and preventing the pick up is made much easier thanks to the increased Jungle Gym and Pallet density meaning Survivors pestering the Killer do not have to go far and don't have to risk giving the Killer a free hit while hovering for the save, which is also made much easier thanks to Sprint Burst on Demand.
This would force the other Killer having to come over and protect them while they get the pick up, which once again leaves a large portion of the map unpressured, or the Killer trying to get the pick up would just have to give up.
Killers are incentivized to Tunnel
I do not wish to delve into how poorly designed the Catch up mechanic barely helps Killers when they're losing, but greatly punishes them if they do not tunnel. There is another discussion that goes into detail about it and how useless it is.
Survivor gameplay mostly remains unchanged, chases are MUCH EASIER.
Most of the time, you will only ever get chased by one Killer since most Killers do not stick too close together since they cannot leave a large portion of the map unpressured.
However, Chases are much more casual and easier thanks to the increase in Jungle gym tiles, Safe Fillers, and Every tile having a Pallet.
There are those rare occasions where both Killers are present and results in a double tap or chase being abruptly ended by the 2nd Killer suddenly appearing. However the Dual Terror radius mechanic is a welcomed edition, allowing survivors additional awareness to avoid double taps.
If your team has Scout, then you can more freely throw god pallets knowing that they will most likely be rebuilt.
Things I would take into consideration when adjusting the mode
I dont want this to purely be a post about complaining, so I'm just going to pitch some ideas that BHVR consider and expand upon to help improve the mode. so here are some things that could be looked at. (Obviously I do not want every change added, some of them sound bad on paper, but could be good in practice. I do not want to see comments saying my ideas are bad since they're purely just stuff to consider when attempting to improve the mode)
- Rework the Catch up mechanic to be meaningful, or just remove it.
- Increase Survivor's "total efforts" required to escape
- Incentivize Killers to stick together
- Double Tap Prevention (Survivors are deep wounded if hit twice within 2 seconds while injured)
- Decrease Map Size
- Basekit Corruption for 2v8
- rework base kit slow down in 2v8
- stronger and meaningful Killer classes. less conditional and if so, much stronger and meaningful. (I.E Much longer duration that gens are comprised with Brute, and shorter cooldown)
- Revert Sprint Burst on demand to normal Sprint Burst
Comments
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So all buffs to killer except that the double-teamers have to count to two when they body block you. What about these ideas makes survivors want to play in a mode where matchmaking is already seemingly nonexistent and you have a huge change of landing 100-hour potatoes/rats as teammates? There has to be some incentive to get so many people to play survivor.
2 -
Maps were not doubled in size, not even close to doubled in size. The biggest change was Coal Tower going from 132 sqt to 180 sqt an increase of 1.36x, many are not even 1.2x bigger (Shelter woods got a tiny 4 sqt increase). This is why the generators speeds and numbers are the way they are, maps were not actually made that much bigger.
If you want the generators to take as long as they do in 1v4 and have survivors complete ten then maps would need to actually be double in size and at that point the killers would need to split up even more and have fewer opportunities to join forces. You would just be playing two matches of 1v4 on the same map or the killers would pick the hardest six gen they could find and guard only those gens every game, especially since you want to make these already not doubled maps even smaller and put more gens on them. With 90 second gens, two killers, and eight survivors needing to coordinate to break the gen setup survivors would likely lose almost every time.
The comeback mechanics effect is much more obvious on the survivor side, you are likely just unaware of how much it is helping you when playing killer. It has won me matches on both sides.
Chases are easier on some maps but not all and immediately become impossible for the survivor when the killers team up. Teaming up in chase is already hugely incentivized and most classes further incentivize it, it doesn't need further incentive.
If you don't want downvotes maybe don't start a conversation by calling everyone else rancid and toxic and maybe don't spout falsehoods about map sizes.
3 -
True, I was incorrect about map sizes, but I am right about EVERYTHING else. The proposed ideas for changed are infact meant to make the gamemode harder for survivors since 2v8 is nothing but survivor sided slop.
No where did I say survivors should need to complete 10 90 second gens. I only suggested they needed to put more effort in. (I.E more total repair time). Funny how you instantly called me a liar (which you are only 50% correct since I was wrong, but not intentionally trying to lie) and then lie about what I said.
Catch up mechanic is in fact completely useless.
Chases are in fact much easier on EVERY map thanks to every tile having a pallet, and some tiles having double pallets.
Chases with 2 Killers is in fact not impossible. I've had plenty of chases with both killers that didn't instantly end. Even then I do understand that it's much harder hence my suggestion to prevent double taps.
Even if I didn't call the community out for what it is, I'd still get downvotes because I don't share the same collective view that the entitled survivor mains have.
-4 -
Of course my suggestions are all Killer buffs, Survivors don't need any other than double tap prevention.
And body blocking doesn't work for a short duration after being hit since Survivors don't have collisions with other Survivors and the Killers when getting hit.
This would actually prevent body blocking so the Killers cannot get an easy 2 tap on the Survivor.
Also, if you get hit again by the other Killer after those 2 seconds. Then chances are you tried to run directly past the other Killer instead of using those 2 seconds and the sprint boost to reposition and that's 100%, your own fault.
Obviously more would have to be done to make chases with 2 Killers more enjoyable. But when making the post, endurance on hit was the only thing I could think of at the moment.
-2 -
Again, what makes survivors want to play this? Clearly, killers already want to because the queues are disgusting. You have a mode with horrible matchmaking so you can't blame upper MMR, and there's a lack of the OP SWF boogeyman, and it's still not enough. The good killers are winning in my matches.
2 -
I didn't call you a liar but how anyone could play the mode even once and think the maps have been doubled in size is beyond me. I have seen content creators use the "doubled" map size though so I called it spreading falsehoods and figured it was likely you picked this up from one of them. You don't specify how much you want generator time increased by or how many more gens you want or how much smaller you want maps to be, just a vague "effort" statement. The values in 1v4 are not a good comparison point in the first place since the mode is balanced entirely differently and the map sizes are a perfect example of that.
The mode is not the survivor sided stomp people make it out to be. I have only had time for 7 killer matches this go around so far but have won 4 of them (7 or 8k each time), one tie (4k), and two losses (both 2k). The killer content creators I watch also tend to win in the mode as well, not always but no one should be expecting to win every match especially in a mode that is meant to be more casual.
Catchup mechanic has won me games on both sides, you being unable to realize how much it is helping/hurting on both sides is a you problem. It has flaws for sure but those don't make it useless, I don't think you would be asking for it to be gotten rid of if you truly thought it did nothing. I think some sort of comeback mechanic is necessary given you need eight survivors who could have wildly varying levels of skill and that's before getting into how different in skill the killers could be or how varied skill levels could be when you look at both together.
Chases against two killers are impossible for anything longer than a few seconds unless at least one of the killers is bad. If one of the two drops its stops being a chase against two killers. It is incredibly easy to double tap or pincer the survivors, giving the survivor endurance would extend the chase momentarily and even then only if neither killer has a dash/teleport chase power. Those being the main form of chase in the mode would be incredibly boring for both sides and killers would immediately tire of the constant endurance even when it is expected (I for sure would) and would likely just start waiting it out instead of two tapping or go right back to chasing separately.
If you want to see the community change that includes you needing to change, your statement just feeds right back into the status quo you claim to dislike.
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