was removing the kaneki vault back intentional?

Doesn't change the fact god pallets are useless against him. You can't really greed that unless he fall asleep while waiting for you to drop it…

This just isnt true, greed the pallet and know when to leave the loop. This is a skill issue.

Yeah, I know from experience that doesn't work on safe pallets. He can just pull his power back up and vault.That was first thing I tried when he came out.

Also not true, there is a delay for him going back into his leaping state, and that was done purposely for those situations, skill issue.

That's kinda the issue, if it is big enough loop, he can just vault the pallet or bodyblock with power and if it is acutally that small, then you can just mindgame it easily as 115%.

Not true, once you master greeding pallets against him hes very mid. As far as him body blocking not only is that extremely hard to pull off and isnt realistic. kaneki players quite literally make montages of the tech on youtube its essentially going for clips.

Well, now it's 0 skill guaranteed down tool… so much fun and people wonder why survivors just go next. Trying to get the timing and vault back was kinda my only reason why even try to play against Ghoul, I really can't be bothered now.

This just says alot about your mindset, you refuse to have to be bothered with thinking before dropping a pallet or vaulting, and much rather just completely make a killer useless by exploiting a bug. Instead of actually learning counterplay. DBD needs harder penalties on players who will just disconnect selfishly instead of refusing to learn something new.

Kankei Is Overturned / Under nerfed we just have to compare to other killers in the roster

This is the Trickster PTB and he got his movement speed decreased too 4.4 a killer who is way weaker then ghoul (a common request on this thread from people in regards to ghoul)

Even The First the newest killer got some slight changes decreased wordbreaker timer and vine attack sound plays slightly in advance so survivors can react

Wesker has died.

But somehow Ghoul is dodging being even slightly nerfed like neo in the matrix.

Hes not being nerfed because has has counter play, and the data most likely reflects that.

When we’re talking about nerfing a killer, him being annoying to play against isn’t a valid reason on its own. If you don’t want to learn the counterplay because it’s “unfun,” that doesn’t justify asking for nerfs.

People don’t say “skill issue, learn the matchup” for no reason. They say it about Ghoul because he actually has real counterplay, and it’s not hard to learn. You just have to make the effort to understand it, which a lot of players in DBD seem unwilling to do.

Nothing Ghoul asks from survivors is mechanically difficult. If it is, then explain what part is hard. What specifically is unreasonable about his counterplay?

If you want to shut down the “skill issue” argument, you have to prove it’s not one. Saying “you’re just dismissing the argument” doesn’t prove anything. Show why his counterplay isn’t sufficient.

Because calling it bias or dismissive without actually disproving the counterplay just looks like an attempt to keep complaining without addressing whether it’s actually a skill issue.

Yeah, that sounds as you would say: skill issue
Go check Fictionisntreal on YT, if you want to learn how to actually play Ghoul.

But I guess Ghoul mains prefer to just bamboozle the window, vault the pallet and have easiest down of their lives.
His vault limits Ghouls to actually have any skill expression, because they simply don't need to even try to use his power properly in chase. Get rid of that, make it Legion's vault so we can see some plays from Ghoul mains that can earn respect.

Even footage is dubious because a lot of content creation in this game is cherrypicked.

That's not even to say I disagree that Kaneki is balanced. I escape the vast majority of games against him.

He's just brainless and boring to play against, and the rare cases you play against one that's actually good, its miserable.

Would much rather go against Nurse.

Then your facing the bad ghouls an average ghoul is always in enraged state during a chase

When you like to post videos, here is link for you, so you can learn how to play ghoul properly:

"exteremely hard" and "unrealistic" :D
Imagine trying to preach about his counterplay, when you don't even know what the killer can actually do.

If his pallet vault gets nerfed again, what is he left with? A mediocre M1 killer that nobody wants to play?

If that's what you are left with, you are just bad Ghoul…
Free injury and one of best mobility powers is pretty good start.

If you actually find some skill and learn how to use his power in loops, then even better. As long he can just vault for downs, there is no reason to even try to get better with him and just crutch on easy playstyle with Bamboozle instead.

There were so many wrong things "intended" in DBD history… It doesn't mean it makes sense.

he can‘t even swing while you vault back.

If you are fast enough, you can grab injured survivors.

My question is, why Legion vault is fine to have free revault, but Kaneki needs to have vault better than Wesker?
Kaneki is similar to Legion on concept of free injury, so it would make sense to have about the same vault as Legion does, not best in the game…

My question is, why Legion vault is fine to have free revault, but Kaneki needs to have vault better than Wesker?

They are different killers with different strengths I guess. Wesker can down/ injure with his power relatively easy+ good mobility + passive infection, legion can easily injure the whole team + down with his 4th hit and kaneki can easily injure one + catch up. The vault is not that useful in most cases, but gives a little bit more playroom to all of them.

Since kaneki released I said they should nerf his auto-aim free injury and make it more of a skill shot. With that he should be mostly fine and I‘m glad they make the hitbox less forgiving with the next patch. Now they only need to make the time he has for initiating another leap shorter so he doesn‘t just follow people around loops with his power up. The main problem of kaneki always was that he didn‘t require too much skill to be effective and that he needs to be able to mess up more. I‘m kinda hoping they reduce the minimum required leap distance to 3m from 5m, so you can use his power in a more skillful way around loops with more potential to mess up.

During initial testing it was a skillshot but almost no one could land it. It was extremely difficult for PC players and just flat out impossible for console players.

Thing is his injury will never be skill shot, because it's hit scan. It's not like Deathslinger where you need to lead your shorts based on distance etc. you just have to aim at the survivor and click.
Reducing aim assist is buff for PC players at least, because they will have easier time to dash in front of survivors to bodyblock them.

If vault is not useful as much, then just get rid of it. Match Legion's vault, so you can still use Bamboozle, but at least he won't ignore god pallets anymore.
If he is somehow too weak for that, buff back his range, that would help weaker Ghouls.

Those two videos I posted show how most Ghoul players actually play.

The montage you showed was one of the best Ghoul players in the world going for clips, not playing normally, not playing for consistent wins. I even linked his stream where he literally says he’s just going for clips because winning consistently is hard right now.

That alone disproves the idea that body-blocking with leaps is some reliable, standard tech Ghoul players use in normal matches.

If that mechanic were truly oppressive and consistent, the best Ghoul players in the world would be using it regularly when they’re actually trying to win. They don’t.

Instead, you’re ignoring the two gameplay videos I posted because they directly show Ghoul being countered with the exact tips I explained. Those weren’t highlight montages, they were normal matches showing practical counterplay.

All that’s been presented against that is a 0.1% highlight montage of body-blocking clips. That doesn’t prove consistency. It proves it can happen in ideal circumstances.

Right now the argument boils down to complaints and exaggerated claims rather than evidence. If Ghoul were truly broken, there would be consistent gameplay showing unavoidable pressure, not isolated montage moments.

If the best players can’t reliably use leap body-blocking to win consistently, then it’s not a realistic balance concern for the average match.

There is no “workaround” for Ghoul against his counters. He can only mindgame around them.

If you actually understand how Ghoul works, you’d know his pallet vault is only effective when you grab someone who is right next to the pallet. Trying to grab on reaction is pointless — by the time you pull out your power, they’ll already have too much distance. It has to be predicted.

That’s not broken mechanics. That’s a read.

It doesn’t matter whether the clips were cherry-picked or not. The videos showed simple, repeatable counterplay that directly worked against Ghoul’s core mechanics.

You still haven’t shown proof of a Ghoul consistently bypassing his counterplay without relying on mindgames.

If the only way he secures downs through his supposed “counters” is by out-predicting the survivor, then that’s not an imbalance — that’s normal killer gameplay.

So unless there’s evidence of Ghoul reliably ignoring or invalidating his own counterplay without reads or prediction, the argument that he’s oppressive just doesn’t hold up.

Not really, you don't need to be 0.1% for that. I am pretty sure to learn how to outplay shack with Ghoul without bamboozle in like 20 minutes, because I am used to that movement from Blight.

Sure, doing that on short tiles can be impressive, but on longer tiles it's not that difficult.

It’s extremely difficult to pull off because it requires near-perfect precision and very fast reaction time. If you don’t execute it cleanly, you waste time and lose pressure immediately. That’s exactly why it’s impressive when it works.

Only something like 0.1% of Ghoul players can do it in a somewhat reliable way.

At Shack it’s not that hard — but that’s the point. It’s extremely loop-dependent. Shack is probably the easiest loop in the game for Ghoul to block effectively because of the structure and spacing.

Outside of very specific loops like Shack, consistently body-blocking with leaps requires:

• Perfect spacing
• Perfect timing
• Immediate reaction
• And a survivor who doesn’t pre-adjust

If any of those conditions aren’t met, it falls apart.

That’s not an oppressive, universal mechanic. That’s a high-execution, situational play that only works in certain layouts and at very high skill levels.

I never called him broken. I called him obnoxious.

I simply don't like there effectivness of Ghoul compared to difficulty of achieving that result. It's just too easy in my opinion and skillfull plays are not required for him.

Hes a m1 killer he definitely needs skill. You would only think that if you dont know how to counter him. Which is a skill issue.

Yeah, I went to custom with my friend to test your counterplay and it's just bunch of cope that works on Ghouls who have no idea what they are doing.

• you can't medium vault a window, or vault a pallet faster than Ghoul cancels the power and grab you
• ghoul can cancel and prepare his power faster than you can react to it, drop pallet and run (so it's always down on safe loops)

Funny thing during our testing, I got bugged three times where my tentacles didn't display I have my power ready…

So whole "greed" based on animation simply doesn't work with how fast he does things and often there is no animation in first place.
Also if you are not standing directly in the middle of dropped pallet/window, I can just lunch directly on you and prompt steal.

So yeah, your whole counterplay works, if Ghoul has a skill issue. Not really viable in my opinion.

The other way around also has no counterplay. If you can just revault the pallet then vaulting the pallet becomes useless. At least with this at shorter loops survivors have time to get around to the pallet on the other side, similar as they would say wesker.

@PetTheDoggo

I’m struggling to believe your results reflect what you’re describing.

From the outside, it feels like the conclusion, “Ghoul needs nerfs”, is already decided, and the argument is being built around that.

I’ve gone into customs to test this. Multiple people in my Discord server have as well. When Ghoul cancels his power and uses it again, the animation clearly plays. There is a visible distinction between faking the power and actually leaving it.

And yes, you can react to it, unless the animations are bugged.

The only example being cited is this so-called “Armint” tech reported by a YouTuber. But no one I’ve tested with has been able to replicate it following the instructions provided.

That raises questions.

If it were a consistent, reliable mechanic, it should be reproducible in customs. The fact that it isn’t suggests either:

• It’s extremely inconsistent,
• or It’s ping-related

The idea of a “new tech” being amplified without consistent proof starts to look less like a balance issue and more like momentum-building, possibly creating fatigue around the killer so that a rework becomes more appealing.

A developer has already stated that the data shows Ghoul is a mid-tier killer.

If the counterplay were truly bugged or unreliable the way it’s being described, Ghoul would not be performing at mid-tier levels. He would be overperforming significantly. And the gameplay videos I posted, which show his counterplay working as intended, wouldn’t have played out that way.

So either:

• The mechanic is consistent and reactable (as testing suggests),
• Or it’s an extremely rare edge case being treated as a core balance issue.

If it’s the latter, that’s not justification for nerfs.

It was always free revault for Legion. It still works and is easier to do against Wesker.
Yet it's no issue for those, but somehow it is for Kaneki…

For none of them it's the primary use of their power.

Legion needs so he has chance to chain hits. For Wesker and Ghoul, I would say it's so their power feels better and they just won't get stuck on the pallet all the time, also so they won't be in situation where they have to cancel power, wait fatigue and then vault. It's just alternative to end your power.

Even if survivors can revault as they should in my opinion, it means they have to stay close to the pallet for this and are not gaining distance if you break it.

It should be there just so power feels better to use and positioning, not to get you free downs.
Power level of Wesker vault is good, survivor needs to fell for your mindgame, otherwise it's unlikely to get your down. Ghoul's vault is way better than it should be.

Wesker wouldn't be one of most popular killers in DBD, if he would regularly be downing survivors with his vault, because it's cheap and survivors hate it…

he is literally designed to automatically hit a survivor if they are close to the vault

So? I would do that too in design, just so it's not easy to do. But it should be possible with correct timing… Skill check

Its literally part of the definition of their power

Not the primary use of their power. It's an alternative ending of their power, which makes sense. It would suck to be stuck on one side of the god pallet while survivor is making distance.

Its a bug/oversight that it doesn't work if the survivor positions themself a certain way and then completely counters the power.

So? Look at Knight, bugs can clearly become a feature…

Like sure, remove revault, but then also make the animation slower and don't hinder survivors in case of Kaneki. His vault is simply too effective, while revault is the only thing you could do against it in safe loops.

i guess we should bring back blight hug tech too

Sure, but I would prefer Dracula hugtech

No, the only reason you were able to bring it back up that quickly was because you did a cancel fake. If you had actually canceled the power fully, there would’ve been a delay before you could bring it back.

You anticipated the fake working because you knew he would drop the pallet for the clip. If he had read the animation correctly, he would’ve just dropped the pallet and you wouldn’t have had enough time to grab and close any meaningful distance.

Between that and the many ways survivors can mind game Ghoul at pallets, this really just comes down to a skill issue.

Also, the devs never said their evaluation was based purely on kill rates. They said he performs as a mid-tier killer across all brackets.

And Nurse absolutely does have a high kill rate in high MMR.