15s Endurance in the endgame is very stupid.
What were the devs thinking giving survivors 15 seconds of Endurance during the endgame? It’s basically a free escape. 15 seconds of running at 4.4 m/s with invulnerability... I’ve already lost so many games to this unfair situation. A survivor can literally cross half the map with a speed boost and protection, and there’s nothing you can do. Even if you switch targets, they just use it to bodyblock you. The endgame was already survivor-sided, and this just makes it even more difficult and unfair for killers.
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When you lost games because 15 seconds in Endgame you were already losing at this point. But I guess Killers still want their pity Kill in Endgame.
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End game being survivor-sided is an amazing take. I'll remember that next time I get two hooks all match and three kills in end game. As far as I'm concerned, if they can pull off the save they can have it. Saves are risky and can wipe a team if done wrong. You'd already basically lost if there's at least two people left to pull off the unhook.
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I could say the same thing when survivors want to win at all costs and get three or four escapes. You know the 15-second endurance at the endgame is unfair and, in most situations, uncounterable; you just don't care because it gives you a free escape.
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Yeah, and when Survivors try to do that, they usually die. And this in a survivor-sided Endgame, eh? Believe me, I am the first one who says that Survivors dont always have to escape with 4 people and can and should accept when someone is on the Hook and being camped that one person will die. And yet I see it all the time that Survivors throw themselves away in Endgame, even if it is not as free as you claim it is.
Just be real - before opening this Thread you struggled in a game, did not manage to kill anyone while 5 Gens were being repaired and then you think you deserve your pity kill in Endgame. Just the usual.
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If as killer you can't turn an unhook attempt into a trade during endgame then something is wrong. They already remove the facecamping prevention to allow killers to secure an endgame kill. There's absolutely no reason to remove the post unhook endurance as well.
I get that losing the only kill of a game to a coordinated swf bully squad in endgame is frustrating. I've been on the receiving end of it myself. But even with full squads it's still a risky play and can easily backfire. For every killer game where I've had a 0k in an endgame standoff, there are 3 or 4 games where I've secured 2 or more kills off of botched attempts to unhook someone during endgame.
And on the bright side if this is a regular occurrence for you then it will be dropping your mmr to face surv teams you can cope with better.
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End game can be sided for each side all that depends are circumstances like m1 killer with 4 people alive while he has one hooked and that hook isnt far from gate like 40 meters yeah if you tell me thats killer sided situation I would get all my answers, in that situation its basicaly very survivor sided if killer has not strong endgame build or survviors don screw up at that point but even noed can be easily countered on that high player count and 3 people can easily save one against m1 killer and bodyblock to the gate.
Its all depending on circumstances like huntress on larrys can hardly get that hook if they paly it well because 4,4 m/s killers are kinda cooked either they commit and basicaly gain no distance for 15 seconds just keep the same or they go for another survivor (spirit kinda breaks it but others can only in some situations but on indoor maps I doubt they have lot of options or chances when map is against them because most of 110 are ranged or like half of them).
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Tbh this mostly happens to me when I dont tunnel but go for the ones I saw and mostly newer ones and than they close gens super fast and start play super safe and predrop and yeah thats it if I dont get tunnel fast and go for another one its gg, the tunnel is only way to get draw at that point but hard to explain to survivor only players or 1 week killer players that play once a week the killer like ghoul and call it easy.
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There’s no risk play, bro. It’s literally a guaranteed escape. If they do it right, one survivor fakes the unhook and forces you to hit them; then they cancel, and another survivor gets the unhook—there’s nothing you can do.
As I said, even if you try to switch targets, they can use their BT (Borrowed Time) to body-block you, and you can’t hit the unhooker. The only way you can still get a kill is if you hook the survivor very far from the gates, which is almost impossible because the majority of maps have one gate on each side. Unless you’re playing a killer with high mobility like Blight, Kaneki, etc., it’s basically impossible to get another down before the survivors escape.
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I'm not talking about downing someone after a successful unhook. Like I said, you blew that match and they deserve their out. End game is, in the broad sense, killer-sided. Survivors can have zero hooks and the killer can still win by slugging everyone.
And even most M1 killers have something that let's them travel faster or better than survivors, whether it be speed elements like Wraith or Clown or teleports like Dredge.
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If you do things right, it’s basically a guaranteed escape 80% of the time. Honestly, I can see you’re blinded by a survivor-main bias; you’re always complaining on other people’s posts about unfair situations for the killer side, denying everything and using survivor arguments that make no sense. You have no idea how the game really works. But I can't blame you—not even the devs themselves know how the game works.
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The slugging part isnt that great of a exsample if we are talking about m1 killer and nothing like noed or stbfl isnt in play. The wraith or clown can deal with catching up, the dreadge well he is whole rng and in endgame he is basicaly mad turkey that is just m1 killer who can hope some unlock locker will be nearby, killer being faster by 15% isnt that huge when there is bodyblocky and that killer doesnt have power which could help him to close distance fast or get injure fast or from range than he is cooked like ghostface,onryo (same as dreadge just she can hope for magic tv but fact is she is like one of best killers that can counter bodyblocks but that only works on longer distances where she can catch up which isnt so easy for 15 seconds only having 5% haste because killer gets 0,6 m/s on survivor normaly 115 speed killer but when he is unhooked killer only gets 0,2 m/s for 15 seconds which is 3 meters of distance that isnt much plus someone bodyblocking and its done).
The best way is to just be decided what you want at the start like you want hard tunnel or focus on two mainly to get kill faster or play casualy and dont care (option for strong minded people with iron will that dont mind salt from bigheaded survivors). I still dont thing endgame is whole killer sided because there is plenty of situations where killer doesnt have guarantee he will get kill or chance he will get more kills it just depends but its mostly just mirroring from the previous choices in the match like who he hooked etc..
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Nah, I just never experience such frustration. And I also dont come to the Forums after a lost game and complain about it like I would be writing in my diary.
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Well said.
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*When I started playing the game in 2018, I faced a lot of survivors who intentionally didn't run away. *It would be terrible if something like that happened in this day and age. *Your MMR would rise unnecessarily, and you'd feel even more miserable. *Increased durability can sometimes prevent unnecessary developments.
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Again, I don't think you deserve to win after playing like crap, nor do you deserve this one-kill pity prize that a lot of people feel entitled to for some mysterious reason. You lost. Accept it. You're not supposed to win every match.
Being killer-sided doesn't mean it's a garunatee but I win a huge chunk of my matches in endgame. If people are injured and out of position it's very easy to get multiple downs.
I don't know how "strong-minded" you need to be to not get tilted by chat or tbagging. You just need to be in emotional adulthood. And they're gonna talk whether you win or lose. Being trash talked is funny and it's never influenced how I play. I get BMed in both roles daily and I've yet to change.
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I mean tunneling isn't really the conversation here but yeah, playing "fair" will often just give survs chance to crank out gens really quick
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You're leaning into exaggeration here. It is not a "guarenteed" out, I've effectively counterplayed against these situations a bunch of times. Even with 3 survs going for the save, timing has to be perfect and the killer has to mess up their hits to leave the situation with no down.
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why is bt outside of the perk avalible in the endgame to begin with is the better question all the anti mechanics should be shut off during endgame
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Why? Cause it should favor killer even more?
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doesn’t hatch exist?
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the killer has nothing else to do and is up against a free escape since it's 15s of endurance + movement speed boost + whatever perks the survivor brought + other bodyblocking survivors. yes it should favor killer more at that point
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losing over 15s endurance…
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Which is also a pity escape. But I dont see so many Survivors complaining about not getting Hatch compared to the Killers who fail to win the game before Endgame and then demand their pity kill.
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It always does if they know how to do gens there isnt much to get you preasure if they know how to loop and dont go down in 20 seconds you have hard time and tunnel is necessary evil for preasure.
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Only if the killer decides it will.
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Depends how you play. Running decent regression makes the diffence by allowing you to apply pressure to their gen progress. And ending chases quick is really just a matter of using the right killer/builds. Me I favour undetectable builds combo'd with aura reads. Makes for some very quick downs. I find when I'm running good builds I don't often need to tunnel.
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15 seconds of endurance gives the survivor a free 60 meters of movement. Average map size is 98 x 98 meters squared. This means that unless you are literally on the exact opposite end of the map, you get a free escape on unhook. And even then, the gates are usually split up in a way where you will be within 66 meters of one.
EDIT: I forgot that they also get 10% movement speed too. So its actually 66 meters of free movement.
EDIT 2: Even if you manage to hit the survivor right off the hook to break it, it gives them a free speed boost of 50% for 1.8 seconds, combined with the 10% movement speed gives them 15.5 meters of free of distance before you can start moving. Which giving that they move 10% faster is again, a free escape.
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Thing is people forget most good regression perks that do realy something are bind to getting hook stage for activation like pop, pain res and fast chases can be hard if survivor you chasing is aware and plays good even with chase build he can hold you off long enough for his team to jump on gens and do some solid progress and with chase build you need like few seconds chases because if you wont have them super fast the survviors will get all gens in like 5 minutes and its gg.
A killer who you play makes the biggest part in your options because stronger killers have more possibilities than weaker ones and can turn loosing game into win way more than weaker killers like having 2-3 hooks on 2 gens left with blight isnt world ending scenario as with demogorgan or ghostface like the outcome of these two is mostly sealed at that point uless survivors make huge mistake.
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I've been saying this for a long time and I'll say it now - 15 seconds is a reasonable decision in the beginning and middle of the trial, but in the end game it should be like before - about 10 seconds, besides the fact that these 5 seconds decide a hell of a lot, the survivor at the end can also use DH, which you either have to wait for or hit directly, which only makes the situation worse if hooks / gates spawn is bad
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If a survivor is getting 15 seconds of Endurance in the endgame and still escaping consistently, the problem probably isn’t the mechanic, it’s the situation you’re putting yourself in before the gates are powered.
By the time the Endgame Collapse starts, killers have already had the entire match to apply pressure, secure hooks, and control the map. If multiple healthy survivors are reaching the exit gate together, that’s usually a macro game issue, not a 15 second buff issue.
Endgame perks and certain mechanics exist specifically to give survivors a last chance play, so matches don’t just turn into guaranteed deaths the moment the gens pop. Killers already have extremely strong endgame tools, things like NOED, Blood Warden, or No Way Out can completely shut down escapes if used well.
So instead of blaming a short Endurance window, it might be more productive to look at why the survivors are consistently reaching the gate in a position where those 15 seconds actually matter.
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By design the killer is supposed to be stronger the further the game is.
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That’s not really how the game is designed though. The killer’s strength isn’t meant to scale automatically with time it’s meant to scale with the pressure you built earlier in the match.
If the killer has hooks, injuries, or people dead before endgame, the endgame heavily favors them. But if four healthy survivors reach the gate together, that means the killer lost.
Endgame mechanics like the 15 second Endurance exist so the match doesn’t become an automatic loss the second the gens pop, otherwise the killer would always just camp the hook or gate, and the survivors would have no realistic counterplay.
And killers already have some of the strongest endgame tools in the entire game, things like NOED, Blood Warden, and No Way Out can literally turn a 4 man escape into a 3-4k if they’re played well.
So if survivors are regularly escaping because of a 15 second Endurance window, the real issue probably happened before the endgame.
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Its simple math.
A map is typically 98 x 98 meters squared on average. Usually not a perfect square, but roughly they all amount to about that.
15 seconds of endurance moving at 110% movement speed gives the survivor 66 meters of distance for free. That's usually enough to get nearly to the gate if you are on the exact opposite end of the map, which isn't really that difficult because there are 2 gates, and they typically spawn across the way from each other. Such that, you can't really be at the exact opposite end. One gate will likely be closer and you will be able to reach it easier.
Now you might say, just hit the survivor off the hook to break the endurance and then catch up to them.
Ok, lets do the math on that.
After hitting the survivor, they gain 50% movement speed for 1.8 seconds while the killer is pretty much unable to move for 2.7 seconds. So in total, this means that during those 2.7 seconds the survivor is able to move:
1.8 seconds x (4m/s * 1.6) = 11.52
0.9 seconds x (4m/s * 1.1) = 3.96
11.52 + 3.96 = 15.48 meters of distance.
Now keep in mind that for the next 12.3 seconds, the survivor runs 10% faster. This means that for those 12.3 seconds, the survivor will move 54.12 meters, and the killer will move 56.48 meters. Effectively only gaining 2.46 meters of distance.
So after 15 seconds, the killer is still 13.02 (lets just say 13) meters away. And will still need to spend another 15 seconds catching up to the survivor. This means that the survivor would move another 60 meters of distance, before the killer is able to catch up and hit them.
Now lets add up all that distance moved during that time…
15.48 meters during the burst of speed + 54.12 meters during the extra speed from being unhooked + 60 meters of the killer catching up to them = 129.6 meters.
129.6 meters is MORE than the distance of an entire map by almost 30%. This means you could literally run from 1 corner of a map to the opposite corner, then run BACK for another terror radius worth of distance in that time frame.
Again, its simple math.
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You're treating the map like an empty 98 meter straight line. In an actual match survivors aren’t sprinting in a perfectly straight path from hook to gate with zero obstacles. They have to path around tiles, rocks, buildings, etc. That alone destroys the “129 meters of perfect travel” scenario. Your simple math is anything but simple.
You’re also assuming the killer starts exactly on the hook, commits to a full chase, and that the survivor runs the entire endurance duration in a straight line toward a gate that’s already open. That’s basically the most survivor favored scenario possible.
If survivors are consistently getting unhooked that close to endgame with a clear lane to the gate, that’s a positioning and pressure issue earlier in the match. Endgame only amplifies the state of the game that already exists.
And finally, this “simple math” ignores the killer’s actual endgame power. Perks that I've said plenty of times for killers in the endgame exist specifically because killers are meant to swing the endgame back in their favor if they plan for it.
So yeah, the math works if the map is empty, the killer plays perfectly into the scenario, the gate is already open, and nobody made mistakes earlier. But that’s not how this game works, your 'math' is a spreadsheet fantasy.
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Not so. Again it depends how well you play, sometimes it's not about being good in chase but how good your tactical overview is. If I realise a survivor is good against me in chase then I know I shouldn't over commit on chases with them. That's how you end up in a 2 gens left with only 2-3 hooks situation. As a killer knowing when to drop chase and focus on someone else/pressure a partially completed gen is a very important skill.
And even if you do reach that situation, the game is still winnable. I've brought back games like that, ironically with the killers you quoted, demo and ghostface. Demo is my main, and if played right is incredibly good at turning almost any positioning into an effective 3 gen with it's traversal. The last 1/2 gens are always an opportunity to take back control of the game. And even if you lose them, the game isn't over until the gates are open and the survs are gone. Heck i remember one game where i had someone hooked in endgame, they got unhooked ran for gate and the survs were stupid enough to heal in gate, i went undetectable and pulled a surprise shred from the gate entrance dowing the injured player mid heal, picked them up and ended up turning a potential 0k into a 3k because they misplayed so hard afterwards.
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Not even slugging, just by regular ol gameplay the endgame is always killer-sided - survivors have far less resources available to them by the time endgame rolls around. Less pallets, less items, and typically less team mates. It's kind of mind boggling that OP claims that it was survivor-sided even prior to the 15s endurance. That sounds like a convenient way of ignoring their own performance during the rest of the game.
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same could be said about the exit gate still being an option after hatch is closed tbh
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The endgame is not really killer-sided. The game as a whole has just a bigger comeback chance for killer than for survivor. But the change is in theory higher before the endgame. Slugging midgame with no possible exits is far more effective (4-man-slugging is generally weak against decent survivor, so you would only try it desperately in endgame most of the time).
Less ressources make the killer obviously stronger, but the survivor gain the ressource exit gates + the whole map (if the gates have a good split). So the killer is at its strongest with one gen left.
That all said: survivor should have the advantage if they make it to endgame with 3/4 alive. One-hooking someone should not be possible. Pity-kills make no sense. Thats why the standard is good and special cases like Bubba etc shouldnt be the norm.
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All its coming from how good you play but getting downs is the key in getting preasure and strong perks in play like pop, pain res, grim embrace, deadmans switch, noway out etc., slugs are preasure too but if you want to win you have to either slug all of them or get someone killed before they reach gates because dying from being sluged takes minutes and slugs can pe picked and its very risky play going for multiple slugs plus 4 survivors alive in 1-2 gen situation is super hard to cut compare to 3-2 survivors in on 1-2 gens.
Knowing your macro is a thing too but all depends on type of killer you play and map like some killers are weak but can with increadiable game sence have good preasure (like sadako in hands of someone like onepumpwillie, she is still super bad on open maps because of tv spawn locations and distance) but even these killers can get shut down by some maps, hit and run is nowdays kinda half dead strategy but I dont denny good macro has huge potencial its kinda very good thing having clue where who is and where to find those you need for kill when they are on dead hook etc.
Demo is kinda meh killer like he works in pub games but every time I watch some good survivor teams to go against demo he gets cooked alive even with meta builds (even trickster doesnt get so cooked like demo), his mobility sucks and has easy counter only thing he has good is his shread but that can be countered by round loops too. For the fact even games that looked doomed can be wined sure but mostly its win because survivors left their guard down or throw or think when I missed 3 hatchets in open against them in my firts huntress match after not palying her for like month or two that they can do dump stuff and than I hit shots they dont even think I can and win is done but these wins come from your opponents doing dumb stuf while you don screw up your plays not against teams that dont do mistakes and pull like perfect save in endgame without any option for you to get trade or down, these game are kinda done before you even see it.
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Yeah maps like larrys are kinda survivor sided in hatch situation if its not trap or super high mobility killer (most of them get destroyed by map like larry like ghoul,blight,billy get countered by that map) the gates are so safe so its nearly impossible to deffend. Gates spawn and killer type are huge thing in hatch situation not to mention hatch spawn rng which can be super strange sometimes so its just thing you cant influence and it will somehow happen and end in killers or survivors favor.
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You get it kinda wrong too here going in straight line favors the killer not survivor thats one thing and second is teammates werent included in his calculations and bodyblocks are another thing that buys lot of time and distance so its just in numbers more survivor sided not to mention not all killers have tools for getting injures or cutting distance faster or threat of instadown like billy,bubba that makes bodyblocks unusable strategy.
If its hook that is like 40-60 meters from opened or 99 gate (which it will be in situation I will use) and one survivor is hooked even in second stage thats 70 seconds and 3 teammates are alive its gg unless you have killer who can denny hooks with his power like bubba,billy,dracula or killer that can catch up or cut off super well like blight,kaneki and even some killers that can do this like clown or wraith still can get bodyblocked if survivors cut it well so in these situations its survivor sided, endgame isnt always killer sided like whole game its just shifting depending on what is happening or happened.
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Endurance works very well actually, 15sec is totally fine, killers sit on hook and getting 1k for free is not fine. give survivors a chance buddy.
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Ironically why no way out is a solid perk. If you really want that endgame kill after closing the hatch because all the survivors but 1 died. It basically guarantees final kill for you if you want it that badly.
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About some discussions in the topic: if you get 2 hook the whole match and the get 3 kills on the endgame, survivors have screwed absurdly BADLY. I personally don't consider a simple merit of the killer getting 3 kills in this scenarios, but a failure from the survivors. Depending on the situation, there is not much the survs can do for the save, the same as depending on the situation the killer can't protect the hook in any form to prevent the save.
@OP
Yeah, its quite silly on how strong the 15s BT is. Considering it was a 50% increase from the original 10s, it provided quite a huge buff for survivors.0 -
Not in my experience. I've gone up against some very coordinated teams and beaten them. Tbh a lot of it comes down to how good the killer is as well as the survivors.
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As has already been said countless times, the "endgame" is just a humiliation ritual for the killer. The killer loses when the last gen pops, after which the whole remaining team proceeds to rubbing it into the killer's face and teabagging the crap out of him with nothing the killer can do about it. If you don't want to suffer that - don't get into that situation, force a win before the last gen, play stronger killers and use stronger tactics, or accept that you lost and the game has no comeback mechanics implemented for the killer.
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Every time I see these nerf-survivor posts complaining about something as minor as this I have to assume it's a player issue. All the things survivors were promised last year were ripped away, plus medkits nerfed on top (and I'm sure toolboxes are next), and people want something as minor as the 5s extra BT taken away too. It's the wanting survivors to spawn on the hook joke that never goes away.
As others already said, I think it has a lot to do with your momentum. I had a match yesterday that was 20 grueling minutes. Three injured survivors on death hook trying to repair a last gen I could no longer regress, but could still use for Nowhere to Hide, and I had Nurse's Calling, so they couldn't safely heal. Gen gets done and I get one of them. Dead. I use an aura add-on to find one on edge map. Dead. I closed hatch at shack with the last one nearby. They ended up escaping solely because they'd found a key and I'm so unaccustomed to the rare clanking sound of hatch being opened it took me a second to register it and I didn't react fast enough. Good for them though. But they all worked hard to get that gen done and I still won.
But even in matches where I threw and got one hook I've still won. The big difference is killers can play awful and still win, while survivors have no such luxury. There's no way for a bad survivor team to just suddenly win after they were losing. And that's what I don't understand with this community. Some people want to perform poorly with the stronger role and still get freebies.
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The fastest way between 2 points is a straight line and that's why "shift+w" is the strongest thing a survivor can do. Yeah, maybe you have to dodge slightly left or right around an obstacle, but again, 129 meters is REALLY LONG its 1.3 maps in size. That is HELLA long.
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I really dont know if its bc of the asymmetric part of the game or the bad matchmaking, but people in dbd really struggle to assess their skill level.
Maybe thats why they want changes so much and not look at ways to improve/learn from their mistakes.
But to be fair that goes for both sides.
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