https://dbd.game/4rHHkF5
Am I the only one that feels Trickster is really bad now?
The 4.4 nerf is making him so rough to play now. 4.4 for someone like huntress, because 1 hatchet does 1 health state. They want you to hit people and kick stuff for style points but its much harder to get a M1. He just feels super weak to me now.
Comments
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no you arent alone alot of players are saying he to slow and a merged post about it is up and running with thatryanb asking about the movement speed
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/465261/trickster-update-feedback/p3
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Everything about him is slow. Walk across the map to find a survivor? Takes ages. Chasing a survivor that got a head start? Too bad Trickster ate 50 hamburgers before the match. Try to throw knives? Might as well be walking through quicksand trying to do that and keep survivors in sight. Fewer knives so you're out almost instantly? Gotta waddle your butt across the map to a locker to restock. Maybe if I played him 24/7 I'd be able to trickshot and have S rank up constantly, but just trying him out for a few games after the patch is sapping my will to play him much longer.
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thank you, i'll take a look at it!
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Yeah most of the dedicated trickster mains don't even call this version a buff except maybe two of them from what I heard. At best side grade or straight up nerf. Which with the 36 knife carry amount and less often main event I'm leading more towards a nerf let alone the 20 meter anti camp range for main event.
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I'm not a Trickster main so maybe those that are more knowledgeable get something good out of this rework, but for me he feels slower and weaker than he did before.
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i mean if he had edge of revival and trick blades basekit with way more knives i can actually see them justifying him being 110
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He's arguably buffed. I've been playing him quite a bit and have seen mostly success. I don't want him to be 4.6 because that means having an 8 knife injure which feels worse. I like being able to actually injure and punish survivors for vaulting, and at range. I like having a tangible benefit to actually having patience and not spamming.
I don't like tickling survivors and being a glorified M1 killer who survivors can't be bothered to respect. I will take 4.4 and 6 knives to injure over 4.6 no matter what.
Let's say they don't nerf his lethality but make him 4.6. Now we have an overly oppressive killer that most casual players will feel like they have no chance against. If good Trickster players are doing well with this version now, then it'll be hell later if they buff the wrong things, then they obliterate him, and then no one is happy.
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Trickster's hit box with his M1 is hitting from long range and is downing everyone with so few daggers now. S Tier Killer now. Overpowered to the point his usage rate is going to skyrocket. It's actually extremely oppressive now!
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4.4 never made sense with trickster, the other 4.4 ranged killers injure in one hit, trickster has to hit 6 (previously 8) shots to injure.
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I played for 6 hours yesterday on the new map and it was just so painful to play with Trickster those god windows forced me to run bamboozle or crowd control.
Traversing the map felt like a walking simulator with how big the map is and how slow we move was frustrating
How easy it was to break LOS and the short laceration decay kept ruining all my work and build up with knives and the constant need to reload not to mention main event is much rarer now.
Against decent survivors it was impossible to win the only time I thrived was when survivors didn't know the map and that was rare
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he should be the first 4.5 killer 4.4 and 4.6 do not work for this killer.
Post edited by Royval on0 -
That's how i feel.
6 laceration + consecutive throw rate bonuses are what makes this killer really tick imo. I definitely dont want that to be sacrificed for 4.6m/s. Previous trickster was more consistent but still weak and boring.-2 -
I must ask for variables here.
Are you hitting your shots? Are you committing to areas where the survivor is around a tile (jungle gym, wall, etc) or still struggling on open maps and not hitting your shots? I consistently see Tricksters in my games getting downs because they are zoning survivors into areas where they cannot dodge as easily.
There is a lot involved rather than just saying this "killer" sucks. It might simply and I mean this wholeheartedly that this killer might not be for you.
I have played The First in customs and even though I can see why people like him (zone-prediction, cutting off survivors, locking down survivors who choose to throw pallets and punishing them) - I still to this day love how Onryo plays because I like her game to game sense of play. It literally could just be either this killer is not for you (which is okay to admit) or simply that you are not zoning the survivors properly.
You should not be reacting to survivors and their movement, you literally are the power role. The survivor reacts to YOU, not the other way around. Yes, there are survivors who left, right, left, right tango dance at a pallet but you are the person who is going to change the outcome by either hitting them or missing, that is you as a killer.
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I tried playing him for few matches and he is rough to play. I personally am not a fan of 4.4 killers overally, and i think its something behaviour should drop all together.
His map is gorgerous, but rough on multiple killers. Most 4.4 killers will struggle on this map, like they struggle on all the bigger maps. This is why i prefer playing 4.6 killers or killers with mobility.
His blades.. when i played him i felt like i was constantly out of knives. Reloading meant i lost the chase and being slow 4.4 catching up sometimes sucked.
The arcade type noises everytime you get a rank up gets to my nerves honestly. Game already has so much noises i don't need extra in my ears. Those sounds could be more quieter.
I havent lost to a single trickster yet, and ive gone against quite a few. With all the pallets and line of sights maps have now looping a slow killer with limited knives isn't that hard.
I wanted to like trickster, i've always loved how he looks and his playstyle, and now with Mina i wanted to buy her and actually play her, but i cant. It's not worth putting what..16-17 euros on a character i know will drive me insane.
"edit" Adding that the laceration decay is also little bit too fast. All you need to do is get good line of sight and it will decay in no time. This also makes me feel like im running out of blades faster. Maybe make that a little bit longer.
Post edited by Hannacia on6 -
My opinion on this killer is that his laceration decay should be buffed to last 50% longer, people jump a god pallet or window or turn a corner and on a minor loop almost starts instantly losing decay it feels like, with the healing meta you injure someone on laceration and unless you have a newbie player they just run off into the distance and get insta healed which doesn't feel good. Otherwise I think he is fine, I do agree with the assessment that for some odd reason the first few games I played with him was against potato players which made him feel good as a killer but as soon as it started the sbmm it threw me into lobbies where I rarely got injures with knives and resorted to M1 which was after 3 games. I rarely got to use my special ability at all let alone to down a survivor, vastly different than what I was watching on youtube videos prior to release.
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The whole community said he should stay at 4.6ms, but yeah they are listening 😑
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I like how he plays now, 4.4 isn't an issue for me but I also play huntress so I guess I'm just used to it.
I really like the brace with the shoes and brutal for aiding my aiming movement speed.
They'd be way too oppressive with 6 hits and 4.6, and I don't want to go back to having more hits, thanks lol this update has cut down my chase time significantly but I know you can argue traversing can take longer, I just bare that in mind when I choose my next target.1 -
This is why i was hoping if Devs would listen and make Cut Thru u Album basekit a real reward for getting up the ranks and we could get 5% haste at S rank but no they just wipe it out and reworked it for whatever reason they have yet to explain.
But if people are so adamant on keeping him 4.4 then he at least need massive buffs to his laceration decay and Knive Count
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I totally agree. I tried playing him for a few games, and he feels awful to use. On top of that, I even tried using a controller on PC to play him, and it felt even worse. I’ve stopped playing him, which is a shame because I got the new skin for him too, but oh well… I won’t be touching him again unless changes are made.
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i think they should revert to a 4.6 and make his laceration count to 7. give him 40 blades and thats actually perfect. the anti tunnel thing is fine, maybe 15 instead of 20m but its whatever
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he's both stronger and more frustrating. he's now in the same tier as Henry.
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If only there were a plethora of killer perks available that give frequent haste bonuses of 5-10%...
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Terrible, he is fast as frozen nutela not to mention you slow even more when you pul out the knife and when you put it back yeah just playing as slowdown simulator. To his ability to get faster downs its just the same but he feels super bad on jungle gyms and higher wall loops even worse than before which is excatly what I imagined him to be, weak at what he was before and strong in what he exceled before.
Main event sucks I not sure but before when you got it you could use main event even when you had no knifes I belive which now isnt possible and biggest nerf to it its how rare it is to get it compare to before like before his rework you got main event after every injury with knifes but now you have it one or max 3 times per game, from my personal experience even when my chases werent stale and I did multiple things to get rank up fast I still get it once max twice per game and that was it not to mention the dilema that keeping s-rank is 90% of times better choice than using main event that slows you down even more and wastes the s-rank.
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Would you be fine seeing gen time to completion increased, given there's a plethora of gen speed perks for survivors?
Edit: Typo fix.-1 -
Stronger in what?
He is better in open areas and lower profile/wall loops I get it but thats where he didnt struggle even before this rework or even after he was first released but now he feels like frozen nutela sepecialy on high wall loops the combination of slower movement speed with less knifes and shorter laceration duration is realy terrible plus ranks do nothing till you get s-rank.
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Sure if the total number of gens needed to be completed was also decreased by 25%
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My point was that justifying or dismissing a complaint because a perk can do X goes both ways. In the example to date it went something like:
>'He's slow.'
>'Dismissed, he can run haste perks.'
Vs.
>'Slow the gens down.'
>'Dismissed, they can run gen speed perks.'
But you immediately went from the 1:1 to a
>'Slow the gens down.'
>'Dismissed, they can run gen speed perks.'
>'Only if we have to do 25% less.'Which would conversely mean someone could argue
>'He's slow.'
>'Dismissed, he can run haste perks.'
>'Okay but make them 25% better.'
I'm just trying to point out that the argumentation there is flawed. Dismissal isn't overly useful versus discourse. If a killer is only tenable with specific perks then the argument to return would be that survivors should only be tennable with specific perks, which is a downward spiral into a nothing-burger.5 -
No, dude.
He is harder to play effectively, less fun to play as and against while also being worse killer than before.
It's honestly impressive how you can do all that in just one update.
Style is fun idea (I genuinely like it), but in current execution it simply doesn't fit DbD gameplay that much.1 -
He didn't get his speed nerfed in a vacuum. The total knives needed to hit was decreased by 25%. Hence the comparison. Also never said new trickster isn't viable without haste perks. Just that they are readily available for the complainers to use.
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hes basically a chainsaw killer now if you happen to get near somebody they just immediately explode. now whether or not that's worth the mental fatigue of being looped around rocks is up to you. The community has decided for Henry "this is not worth it" and dropped him. I'm sure most will drop Trickster, too. But I think that's okay. 115 Trickster wasn't really in a good spot anyway
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This is a very good adjustment that restores the lost fun and makes it easier and more rewarding. Those who are dissatisfied are just creepy people with delusional tendencies who cannot accept what they cannot do.
addition
There are some creepy people in the world who can't stand it unless things go exactly 100% the way they want.
Post edited by ONSAN on-4 -
Well 115 trickster wasnt that bad, if he compare him to this one I think there isnt much of a difference this one is only better where the 115 trickster was already good (just 2 less knifes need to injure thats the difference) but sucks in high wall loops even more 5% slower base speed and slower when holding knifes, less of main event time per match plus weaker around hooks (115 trickster could just get one healthstate injure basicaly hit 8 knifes and he could have main event but this one cant use it near hooks and thats where it shined plus keeping s-rank is more beneficial).
In power he isnt much better than 115 trickster and is more map dependent which in fast phased meta isnt good thing plus is more punishing to play as (even more than 115 trickster tbh more slowdown and less ammo), there are many ways in which he sucks more but as you say trickster wasnt in good spot anyway and that he isnt worth for majority players I get it he has that henry philosofy that he is very hard even harder than 115 version.
I still think henry is almost dead because of how good and consistent you need to be to get something, people that said he was new nurse kinda arent the best in putting theory in practise and imagining what it will look like in live world compare to what it says and looks like on paper. Just like uknown henry sounds strong and great on paper but in practise he isnt that great unless survivors you play against doesnt run straight and are super predictiable but than which killer isnt good against survivors that play like this, which killer isnt good against some survivors that run like headless chickens and doesnt even wonder why everyone is hitting them every time.
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Touche. Point taken.
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Im a Trickster's main and this version is way better than old.
If BHVR is going to change it, they can do whatever they want, but it needs to remain 6 blades; 8 was horrifying.
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I find it so fascinating that when I asked for variables from the guy struggling with Trickster.
The guy did not respond, no one can respond.
I get downvoted and what do I see here? Killer mains circlejerking about how bad Trickster is. It's so interesting to me to see killer mains (who come from Hens and Otz) and when I ask you guys what do you struggle with? What type of map - are you hitting your shots, are you taking chase at a tile and not approaching it the way you need to.
Something Henz and even Otzdarva would do when watching a clip from killer mains - you get downvoted because of "feelings".
Killer: "Guys, Trickster feels bad! What did they do to my 4.6 m/s killer?! Behavior is ruining the game! Do they even want people playing Trickster?! All these guys want to do is make us play survivor and have you guys HEARD about Five Moves Ahead? Absolutely game breaking!! Give us killers 130% movement speed!! I can't catch up with the survivors, nerf survivor NOW!!" it's a joke.
You guys don't want help, you want to circlejerk and doompost on here, lmfao.
@Ricardo170373 , also I agree with you.
Edit: which side is more analytical again? I thought survivors were the crybabies on the forums? The emotional ones yet I keep seeing feeling. He feels bad, like oh my gosh - get me out.
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When Trickster was originally made 115% with an 8 knife hit count, I saw a lot of his mains come out and say that although the change was a buff, it removed a lot of his skill expression and made his gameplay too M1 oriented compared to living and dying by the knives you land as a 110% killer.
I Imagine that for those players, this update is an absolute win in every sense of the word. For those that had come to like the flow 115% Trickster had, this is a baffling step back that probably leaves them confused.
Personally, I'm more of a Huntress and Springtrap Guy when it comes to ranged killers. To settle this dispute, they should redesign an addon for current Trickster that speeds him back up to 4.6 but makes him need two more knives for an injure like he previously had. Not the best result for players who liked 115% speed default, but it's better than not having it as a playstyles at all.
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Huntress is given a small terror radius, a huge hitbox, 7 rounds of ammo, and the ability to camp.
Setting Blight movement speed to 4.4 m/s is often criticized as being unsuitable for beginners.
Trickster, the most difficult killer, is made into a character only pros can use.
The double standards in this community are really frustrating.
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I'm so pissed off at this tbh
I've never been so frustrated with a killer. And we have 30+ killers0 -
I'm not a trickster main and normally play huntress if I play ranged most of the time. For me he's pretty fun with the new style system, the addons changes and generally the fact he only needs 6 knifes now. That being said some loops are obviously pretty horrible now and he tranverses slower, but that's okay xD
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You are not wrong he is actually worse in several ways.
His movement speed nerf for example is really bad for him as a ranged killer who has to hit people multiple times to injure people and most survivors as soon as they hear your 44 meter lullaby will pre run which shuts down your power.
His power itself has got a nerf to his maximum ammo so you have to reload more(nobody likes reloading at lockers no matter how cool the animation is)
His add ons are decent now, but very dull at the same time. I mean look at what happened to his holy trinity, two are dead and the trick blades can only bounce one time now.
There is also a much harsher throwing state movement speed penalty now so the survivors get way more distance on you if you stay in the throwing state too long(In theory you wouldn't be in the state too long anyway but if you keep throwing and missing(which beginner tricksters are bound to do) you give survivors much more distance, and this also makes the killer much less beginner friendly)
I also said this in a different post but his projectiles behave very differently to other more conventional dbd projectiles (like the huntress hatchets for instance). The blades barely have any weight and and travel in an almost perfect horizontal line, meaning you can't arc shots to go across the map(avoiding all the clutter) to hit people. Some may counter "but the projectiles are small" to that I say, yes they are small but realistically how many times per match are you going to be able to use that small size to injure people through a small gap or hole.
Someone will argue that trickster is stronger now, Someone was found with 28 trickster lacerations in the Moon Market, are these related? Not in the slightest I just wanted to connect those things in your mind. Trickster in his current state is only really good in the hands of experienced trickster players. More average or beginner players who aren't hyperaware of every gap, hole and every angle you can make trickster knifes go through small spaced and make seemingly impossible shots connect, will struggle with him to the point that they make seem impossible to play in the current state of the game.
I would sum up the trickster "rework" essentially as a revert to how how he was before he was 4.6, his fun add ons are nerfed or gone, and minimal buffs to keep him as weak as possible. Oh yea he gos a flashy UI now blow the confetti MP4(in all seriousness the combo system is good, but he can't remain 4.4 with all the other stuff weighing him down)
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I played a game with him earlier on his new map and I enjoyed it. I will probably keep playing as him. That said, I'm not very good with this Killer, so the Survivors I went up against were definitely not in high MMR (But that's OK. Like I said I'm buns with Trickster, so they still had a reasonable chance to escape).
I still had 2 Survivors DC on me, though. I doubt the Trickster will ever be on anyone's favourite Killer to face list regardless of what BHVR do with him. He feels fairer to Survivors than the 115% iteration, at least. Although he'll always have limited counter play at certain loops, that's still an improvement, imo.
He felt pretty much like a buffed version of the original Trickster to me (I didn't like the previous iteration at all). If you do manage to hit your shots, he can get an injury with his blades incredibly quickly. I only got to use his Main Event once, but it was nice to be able to decide when to pop it (his OG Main Event always popped at the worst time).
The only thing I would say is that I think he should be able to pull up and put away his blades a tiny bit quicker. Sometimes I would pull up my blades but the Survivor would already be around a corner and out of sight before I could get a shot off. l felt like I had to close the gap a bit too much to be able to start using my power and that was a little too punishing for me.
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In what does his rewok made him esier?
The getting down in open are or low wall loop where survivor cant hide behind stuf? I dont think so just buffed him in what he was already good and nerf him in what he sucked before.
His skill requirement went up and he is harder to play, do you think he is more fun and rewarding for more people than just few trickster mains?
I dont think so he was already dead killer for anyone playing on console and now is way harder than 115% version even with needing 2 less knifes to hit, he is slower in everything and only faster in cutting survivor down in open area but he was already good in it before, his main event is less common and in 90% of time its better to keep s-rank. Less knifes mean you need more reload which on slower moving character is very enjoyable thing.
So in what he is better other than things I mentioned? He sucks in more things than 115% version thats just facts laceration sucks more and many more things he was better in before.
This rework just is made for some of his mains that wanted something simular to first version of trickster, not for other players and survivors will hate him always theres no fix for that.
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