http://dbd.game/killswitch
In your opinion what are the most unhealthy things in the game?
I'll go first:
-Underpowered low tier killers
-MMR and lobby dodging causing newer killers to be matched against SWF's
-High Latency and how it's handled
-Twins (slugging playstyles are really harmful to the casual side of the game)
-Blight/Nurse/Ghoul (Hyper mobility and how its strangled meaningful perks for lower tiers)
-Swamp Maps
Tunneling/Slugging are only incredibly problematic tactics on killers who compliment the style way too well (mobility and twins) and I think when BHVR acknowledge some of these issues the game will be in a much better place casually.
Honourable mentions:
-Gen Progression/Regression, but I know these are here to stay and are answers to each other.
Comments
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I'm just gonna list things by priority since I know Devs will take forever doing these things
But High priority: Ghoul and Blight need changes immediately because they are both unhealthy and high pickrate cause you see them always and these changes need to be addressed soon
9 -
I wanted to try to take a standpoint of like the game as a whole, but those two are my highest on the list lol
1 -
I think so many of the game's problems stem from the balance of the 3v1.
Killers are incentivized to eliminate someone as soon as possible. There's zero downside to it.
Survivors have to complete the same amount of charges per gen despite having 1 less player. In reality, chases need to go even longer for the same amount of gen progress that you get in a 4v1.
The pacing of the game often grinds to a halt. There's often no time to make meaningful gen progress between saving and healing. The game is decided but there are still 5+ minutes that have to be played out.
You can never account for every reason that survivors leave mid-match, but you can respect someone's time. I don't think an early 3v1 should be an automatic loss for one side. It's boring even as a killer. I sit there hoping the survivors don't save each other because it pointlessly extends the game whose outcome is already decided.
For something a little less philosophical: Dissolution. Biggest cheese perk in the game
15 -
I think my problem are most of the Meta killers atm.
I feel because of them the low tier killers cant really be buffed in any meaningful way with out making the meta killers stronger. I was hoping they would realize that each killer cannot be treated equally and do more specific buffs with how perks interact with other killers and how the map interacts with these killers.
Imagine if map tiles changed depending on the killer? I think that'd be pretty neat. Changes the flow of the strong loops for killers that are slower.
8 -
The players.
6 -
Yeah I tried to too I said to myself what are the most unhealthy things and those two stuck out the most
-1 -
Yeah, Behavior would never implement anything dependent on the killer at all.
It's really sad because they do at best top down changes, but you cannot really alter the game all that much due to how old it is and just how their coding is in general.
So, you're kinda stuck with the old code and Behavior has said time and time again that they won't make a Dead By Daylight 2 - I believe this is due to loss of licenses, but the game itself (and I say this with a lot of hours) is quite bloated. Perks overlap with perks, killers overlap with killers - each change to a tile, jungle gym, pallet all is affected depending on the killer that you're going against - same for map size as well.
Even though I'd love Behavior to differentiate dependent on the killer, I just know Behavior's track record is not to change specific things pertaining characters. This is why I believe it'd fundamentally break the game because they are a corporation and making sweeping changes like that affects their bottom dollar the most.
It's also another reason why Dead By Daylight would never have an Operation Health like Rainbow Six Siege did. This is why I'd argue that I wish other asymmetric games would more popularized, so that Behavior would actually adapt and listen to their community as a whole (both killer and survivor) - that's the only time we get any drastic changes is when a competitor enters, once the competitor ceases to exist - Behavior goes back to their stagnating ways.
1 -
Lots of unhealthy things in the game at the moment:
Pallet density on lots of maps, really strong perks with no real downside or risk like Botany Knowledge or Vigil, Brand New Part not consuming a toolbox allowing it and a commodious to be used for a really fast gen repair, and 70 second hook stages
-12 -
Ill answer with one thing from both sides
For Killer
-- Top tiers / not different perk strengths
I feel like having strong Top Tiers causes perks to be weaker just because x can use them, this can be fixed by addressing top tiers so stronger perks can be made or having weaker/stronger perks based on what killer you are playing. Perk Strengths could also apply to survivor side as we could have more powerful induvial perks that loose value when stacked but its harder to do for the survivor side because of my next issue
For Survivors
- Not wanting to bring Soloq closer to SWF
Devs seem to not want to add Soloq benefits such as seeing each other perks and comm wheel call outs, by not doing this the game will just continue to be harder to nerf aspects on the survivor side as the solq - SWF gap is not bridged. last Soloq Bridge we got was the hud years ago. edit: correction the anti camp addition to the hud was last one before that it was the HUD1 -
What exactly is the difference between solo and swf that the dev can actually tackle?
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You can never bridge SWF and Solos completely, because the main strength of SWF is to reduce the randomness of your teammates. People say it might be communication, but I doubt that. Because if you put 4 people in a SWF with and without comms, you will get roughly the same results.
Therefore, you will never be able to bridge it completely, but you can try to do things by giving Solos information which SWF has. E.g. the Perk Loadouts of your team members. Not in the Lobby, since this might lead to more Lobbydodging, but ingame or in the loading screen. A SWF always has the information that their teammate has Deliverance and should do the Unhook or that someone has Power Struggle. Solos dont get that.
Basic Chat Wheels a la "I go for the Unhook" would also already be helpful.
Granted, things like that might not help at all, because it is up to the player to understand them. I have seen Survivors having perfect information and still making the wrong plays.
5 -
The lack of real onboarding process.
DBD is a simple game by design, but it has lots of unintentional (or retroactively intentional) mechanics that massively impact the outcome of many situations.
A brand new survivor is going to get slaughtered for free every time, often thinking that there was literally nothing they could have done about it.
A brand new killer will rapidly hit a wall when they meet their first skilled survivor, getting humbled by a thousand techs with two-thousand names that they could not possibly intuit.
The game does an extremely poor job explaining why you are losing, with a huge amount of the game being knowledge dependent. It says a lot that the community considers sub 1k hours as a novice general. Basically the game has two layers, one which is the intended, simple experience, and the other which is entirely made within the confines of the game, but by the community, not the developers.
Many new players will drop the game out of frustration, mistaking it's opacity for unfairness. Those that stick around will graduate baby-jail and end up fighting an even more uphill battle as they start to match with very high level players. Honestly, I would not have stuck this game out if I didn't hyperfixate on it.
Honourable mention:
Badham.2 -
Blight. How this killer has continually evaded nerfs is absolutely insane to me. Even Momo will tell you that he's OP.
7 -
A chat wheel would be a start if you don't want to add full comms. Maybe a ping system as well.
1 -
I think map design not scaling to the individual killer is a big unhealthy issue. You can be skilled on any killer, but certain maps will still heavily hinder you regardless, and that shouldn’t happen. It should scale to mobility. Killers shouldn’t be placed in a map that actively works against their power.
Early game tunneling having no downside is also unhealthy, for obvious reasons.
And lastly survivors not having access to killer bots in customs is a huge gap. There are 40+ killers with different perks, add-ons, and counters, yet survivors have no reliable way to practice against them, it’s all trial by fire every time. Not to mention killers that get reworks, so their counters change, making returning players struggle as well. Comparatively, killers can practice freely with survivor bots using any perks for killer and against any perks for survivor and have been able to for years. The knowledge gap expected from survivors keeps growing with every new killer added, but there’s no real way to practice against any of them. Watching videos helps, but it’s not the same as playing, there is actual skill involved and muscle memory and it takes physical practice to be able to pull off what you watch. Survivors should have access to the same practice tool, and I would advocate heavily for some kind of BP bonus given to survivors to play against every different killer bot at least once as part of the getting started process, so new players are not forced to come in completely blind.
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Right? Like, what was it a 1993 winstreak or something? How is that NOT a problem lmao
There is so many good posts here, I really hope they get read by the team <34 -
adding Comm wheel like dbd mobile had with pre made messages if worried about toxicity
another one from dbd mobile, seeing each other perks in lobby so that solos with game knowledge can see "oh he has well make it/ deli ill let him save" "let me save I have STB" and would allow solos to more coordinate build with team if they wish.
You will never have SWF and Solo on the exact same level but that's not a reason to bridge the gap where we can instead of letting the gap get bigger and bigger.
changes like these have no downside balance wise in the game at worst it will do nothing, at best It would bridge the gap more and evolve how solo survivors play the game over time.4 -
Full team survive with friends. Limmiting how many can que together would prevent bully squads and swat teams. While custom matches can still be used for tournament purposes. Atleast thats my hot take as someone playing both sides.
-2 -
Twins might be an issue if literally anybody played them. Over a thousand hours in the game and i can count the number of twins games I've had on one hand. Kind if a problem in of itself, to have dead killers that you never see anyone play.
But yh weird amount of players still lobby dodge. Less than they used to though, i rememeber when they used to show players prestiges and killers would dodge any high prestige survs they saw.
Big thing not mentioned is how bad the game is for new players, particularly survivor soloq. Game has no decent tutorial and newer surv players just get constantly stomped and tunneled out via convenience. Newer players need more support
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I mention them as I have encountered a few of them recently again and it's just annoying if you didn't bring perks to deal with the situation it's just a slow miserable match, that or everyone just runs at her for some reason and the match is over coz no one wants to play with her (I try to play normally).
Lobby dodging is frustrating because you can clearly tell people get filled in who are clearly out of their depth, like only a couple hundred hours or the like, or the other extreme. Its usually always after a dodge.
yeah its atrocious for new players, they can't rely on content creators to do the heavy lifting for them forever. It's part the reason I'm asking everyone their opinion, because so much of the mentioned drives people away for the forseeable future who are more casual. There needs to be more room for error and time to learn3 -
The biggest problem with the game is that the most brain‑numbing, low‑effort tactics are also the ones that deliver the highest efficiency, and it drags the whole experience down. When the optimal way to play is to tunnel, slug, hold W, or run the same tired meta perks, the game stops rewarding creativity and starts rewarding whoever is willing to make the match as unfun as possible for the other side. It creates a feedback loop where players feel pressured to use these tactics just to keep up, even if they hate them, and the result is a game that punishes interesting play while elevating the dullest strategies to the top.
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To add to this, there are too many things that facilitate it with minimal resistance. A developer that cares about their product and their audience would do more to address this, but it's clear that all that matters are numbers and shareholders.
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Between the community, entitled survivor mains (not all of them, actually no all of them), ghoul mains, this forum entirely, definitely the community outside of the game, meg, and pretty much everything else.
-9 -
Players who get in a power trip the second they feel anonymous, so they allow themselves to ruin your game's experience.
-1 -
worse things in the game is ping value dsync system, low pings should have advantage, low fps cap, 120 is very low, 200 is the sweetspot, RNG and MMR rng should be fixed asap, also mmr should be strict on high mmr, good players should verse good players, not bully simulator streaks, also killer should not be able to abandon winning games.
-3 -
Finesse has kinda ruined the game for basic m1s. perks like this only encourage the likes of ghoul
-9 -
SWFs vs SoloQ. i don't think SWFs shouldn't exist, its just that we should bring SoloQ closer to SWF and balance accordingly.
SoloQ lacks info. We need basekit kindred and other info as being able to see the other survivor perks.
Bad MMR. A top tier Blight shouldn't go against baby survs in SoloQ and a SWF with full meta shouldn't be going against casual players. Want to sweat? Go against someone who also wants to sweat.
Bad balance overall, specially on survivor side perks and items and S tier killers. There is so much imbalance between the strongest perks + items and the top 2 killers that makes this game a mess. Shoulder the Burden shouldn't exist; toolboxes need to be changed; Survivor perks shouldn't carry and Nurse and Blight need some changes too.
And the most important, a complete engine overhaul. There is too many bugs and technical issues in this game.
Post edited by Rickprado on-5 -
Blight without question.
He's been able to dominate 99.999% of lobbies since he got added, has completely warped map design by requiring every map have 50 resources within 6 feet of each other just to make him feel fair to play against, has a power that encourages bad/sweaty/toxic players to constantly run back to hook and tunnel regardless of the game state, has gotten multiple perks nerfed because he could abuse them so well, and has never had a substantial nerf to his kit despite him being the strongest killer in the game by a wide margin for the last 6 ######### years because people will scream bloody Mary if he gets even the slightest power reduction.
Blight isn't just a elephant in the room, he is the entire goddamn herd.
7 -
amen.
3 -
The tutorial if you can even call it that. It is so outdated that people would rather bring people into a custom game to teach then cause the game is so bad on actually teaching you things. A small video demonstrating how a killer powers works and how their perks work would go along way for new killer players, while on the survivor side teaching them how to counter said powers instead of just throwing them head first into the fire.
6 -
Stacked SWFs and stacked S tiers. Literally chocking this game.
0 -
Watch (or experience) a few Momo matches and you'll see everything that's unhealthy in this game. Tunneling, slugging, Blight, four slowdowns, garbage matchmaking that feeds any unlucky player to someone else's ego, DCing/AFKing/throwing. It ain't SWF that's the issue. How many hundreds of SWFs does someone like that beat before finally being stopped for one single match?
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Matchmaking, and it's unhinged weed smoking cousin making everything worse called Lobby Dodging.
3 -
Momo on his 2k win streak with Blight fyi
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Funny enough his 2k win streak finally ended but only because a Swf Streamsniped him and counter perk him with full item load outs.
So just summarizing they could only end his win streak by cheating
5 -
People absolutely hate going against twins but it's not the biggest gripe atm because people never play them but Ghoul on the other hand has the highest pick rate in the game and you see him dozens of times which makes people majorly livid and have massive amounts of Fatigue playing against him
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Yeah I'm very aware and overjoyed because I was one of his many victims (more than once) on the ride there, and had been hoping he wouldn't get to 2k, but it's crazy it took a sniping comp team to cut him off. The game is basically unwinnable if the killer is as good as the survivors in its base state.
5 -
Agreed
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To me the largest unhealthy thing in the game is BHVR not committing to either being a competitive game or a party game and balancing accordingly. I don't blame them mind you, seems like more money gained as a company if you can appeal to both - but it's going to destroy this game.
Beyond that my list would be :
- Body blocking
- Endurance Abuse
- BM'ing
- Slugging behavior
- Lack of end-game interaction (you die, you out)-2 -
-Underpowered low tier killers
I don't think there are killers who are so bad that they're unhealthy for the game. Yea there are low-tiers and high-tiers, but people exaggerate how bad low tiers are. Most good Ghostfaces, Myers', Trappers' etc will still win a lot of their casual pub games because until you reach high MMR you will face mostly survivors who have no clue, they run into every trap, don't know how to play against Ghostface etc. The difference is bigger in higher MMR, that's true. But i would nerf high tiers first, i don't know why after all these years Blight still can do what he does and still has these add ons while other killers have mostly bad ones.
-MMR and lobby dodging causing newer killers to be matched against SWF's
SWF's is a buzzword often getting thrown around, most SWF's aren't much worse than your default solo queue squad. Killer mains have this strange assumption that SWF means Seal Team 6, a hyper-optimized team who has played thousands of matches together and perfectly coordinate every action. From my personal experience, most swf's are just friends who chill together on discord, the individual skill in chase has nothing to with it and coordination isn't as easy and direct as most people think
-Twins (slugging playstyles are really harmful to the casual side of the game)
Twins excell against uncoordinated solo squads, but the bigger problem is that most people don't know how to play against them. Most survs refuse to learn and want their default order of events without having to think out of the box. But yeah, playing against a good Twins killer is stressful even with a good team.
-Blight/Nurse/Ghoul (Hyper mobility and how its strangled meaningful perks for lower tiers)
i agree, the game is generally very hard to balance, because of its nature but also because there are so many variables. Killers, add ons, perks, items, offerings… but bringing killers more in line without making them "even more of the same" (please not another dash/lunge killer with teleport and projectile ability and collectable item to delete their power) would be a great start
-Swamp Maps
why? i like them and they're the only ones that have this oldschool DBD feeling (the dreary colors). I will never forgive what they did to the Autohaven and Coldwin realms, they look so ######### since their rework. The strange greenish color that they added to Autohaven isn't doing it.1 -
Just curious, why Blight,Ghoul and not Nurse?
While Nurse is arguably even stronger than Blight.Because if reason is pickrate, then it's kinda short sighted. Nerf to Blight, will increase pick rate of Nurse.
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Its simple. The most unhealthy thing for this game that has always been the case is end game chat. It allows a form of hate and abuse that otherwise isn't in the game. Worst your gonna get in the game compared to the horrendous end game chat is some bags, tunneling or god forbid some killer humping a survivor on the ground
-2 -
Because it's easier to fix blight with simple changes and number tweaks while Nurse requires a full core power rework
3 -
I might start sniping him from Europe with my sweaty swf team, I will revenge you guys :D
1 -
Thank you for responding to everything with your opinion, Twins is mostly just in concept of Solo Q because I mainly play that so your assumption is correct.
Swamp is just like events are awful on it, and the pallets/loops are awful against ranged killers (it's a very specific matchup). I do think they can be played well? Event spawns are usually what make me sick of them
the MMR thing is just me trying to think what I dislike a lot when playing killer, coz I struggled to find something I'm like this is awful on that side, backfilling is my main gripe, I can't pretend to know how MMR works.
Honestly a lot of them were just to get a conversation going if I had to choose one out of all of them it would be the high tiers, but I parrot it so much I thought I'd try take some different angles
I appreciate your opinions and agree with a lot of them especially the co-ordination and communication part not being easy <31
