http://dbd.game/killswitch
What is wrong with an Abandoned option for killers when all generators pop?
There is a abandon option for if all survivors are slugged, or down so everyone can dc, why not do the same for killers with all generators pop?
Answers
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What stops the killer from being able to "meaningfully" play in that scenario?
-4 -
With all honesty, survivors can also forfeit when the rest of the survivors are bots. On that case they could also normally play.
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There's no killer bots, and there are challenges and other stuff that relate to doing stuff at endgame. A survivor abandoning can in no way stop a killer from getting any challenges/achievements as the bot remains, this would not be the case for a killer abandon that ends the game.
Absolutely nothing against the idea of such an abandon option but I find it very unlikely it'll be implemented without killer bots as a result. Don't think they want another case of "You nasically need your opponent's permission to do your thing" situation like with the Myers tombstone achievement.
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I think adding a door being open too the gens being done would make it a better option. That way if survivors want to goof off in exit and waste time the killer can move on. Same as I do on survivor when a killer slugs. It takes nothing from the game except the ability for toxic behavior just like the go next when plugged does. I think it is a matter of time before this is implemented since BHVR usually balances things sooner or later
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And when all survivors become bots the killer can abandon too.
That said, doesn't answer the question does it? In that scenario, what stops the killer?
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It should be once the exit gates open but now they've removed free unhooks on last gen pop so killers have started hook camping again which is always fun but it's more fun than what we just recently had which is 4 survivors escaping 80% of the time lol
-6 -
If the killer were replaced by a bot, I am all for it. Without though, I don’t think it’s a good idea. If a survivor abandons the other 3 people still get to play the game. If a killer abandons the trial just ends, along with any kind of adept success, or chances at completing end game tomes/challenges like hatch, cleansing totems or being the last survivor out.
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Cause its not the same situation.
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I think that when nobody is hooked or downed by the killer, with a short grace period after unhooks, after gates are open survivors should start to have their bp drained at a slow but exponentially increasing rate and given to the killer. Then they can tbag at the gates to their heart's content.
-7 -
Then add the hecking Killer bots people acting like that's a grave sin when survivors already have them
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Nothing stops the killer, but seeing that in the survivors case i did mention also nothing stops them but they can still forfeit, whats the point in asking?
Being able to "meaningfully" play or not doesn't seem to be a factor in being able to forfeit.
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That would mean add killer bots than add a abandon option to this scenario, which goes back to my other question, why not bring killer bots to the base game? than we can add the abandon option, however If they have 0 plans on bringing killer bots to the game, than add the abandon option, why let killers have to wait on the timer to go down for survivors to fully escape instead of making killers forcing them out.
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In most cases it is. We're going to admit to stretching this one but it would be in the vein of being able to "meaningfully" play with at least one human on your team/opposing side as survivor and killer respectively.
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Nothing really. Quite literally no reasonable argument to not allow killers to abandon during EGC/all gens done. It's either try to fight for one last kill or wait for them to leave. it's just a big waste of time in the end. As long as I can get my time wasted by people intentionally plot twisting in the gates to extend EGC there is no excuse to not have an abandon option for when at least EGC starts.
Post edited by Brimp on4 -
Yea it should be a thing already
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This continues to be one of the most misunderstood aspects of the game for some reason.
It's because gens aren't the killers objective. At best, they're a consumable resource that buys the killer time to complete their actual objective: killing survivors.
And, for the record, you can still kill survivors after the gens are done.
I think of gens as a resource, and similar in many ways to pallets. They're intended to be used up as part of normal gameplay to buy time. But no one has ever said "I had to throw pallets that chase". Yet somehow "2 gens in my first chase" is considered problematic.
Is it harder with all the resources used? Sure. Is it impossible to a point that giving up is reasonable? No.
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The same could be said for a 4 man slug. Sure, the killer COULD go around and hook everyone and one might be able to wiggle free… maybe they won't but they might.
Is it impossible to a point that giving up is reasonable? No.-2 -
I just had a match where all three of my teammates DCed early in the match with 4 gens up. I ratted for hatch while the bots got picked off for a whole match worth of time. Meanwhile, killers can still very quickly turn an L into a W in end game. It's not really the same experience, or the same potential time waste.
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There's no killer bots
There are though. 2v8 has Killer bots. All they need to do is implement a basic version of that into the scenario that OP is describing. They don't even need to be tailored for each power or anything, all that is required at that point in the game is a barebones AI that walks around and swings at Survivors. That way the match doesn't immediately end when the human player leaves, and Survivors can finish off whatever challenges they have to do.
All the infrastructure for this feature already exists, it's just a case of them implementing it.
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I'm not seeing where 4 man slug is a resource here.
But since you seen to want to talk about a red herring and change the subject, what options are there base kit for the 4 survivors slugged?
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This topic remains one of the easiest ways to see the bias a lot of this community has against the Killer role. The abandon system on Survivor was added to prevent Survivors from having their time wasted in scenarios that are commonly unwinnable (such as all Survivors being on the ground), but the minute you suggest the Killer is afforded the same luxury in endgame, you immediately get hit with a barrage of downvotes and people insisting it is somehow not comparable.
Everyone can seemingly get on board with the idea that Survivors shouldn't have to sit on the ground for four minutes (even if the Killer isn't being intentionally malicious), but saying the Killer shouldn't have to wait 2-4 minutes while Survivors intentionally stall out the EGC timer while spamming loud noises is incomprehensible.
Telling the Killers they should just wait out the EGC timer is such a double standard because no one would ever accept "just AFK and wait it out" as a legitemate solution regarding slugged Survivors prior to the abandon mechanic.
Letting the Killer abandon in endgame (where the match is basically won for remaining Survivors) and be replaced with a bot wouldn't tangibly affect the Survivor experience, yet the idea is always met with heavy resistance. The majority of arguments I see against it, are simply fronts for "I enjoy flaunting my victory against a real player, and a bot wouldn't provide that same satisfaction." Like you said, in a game where Survivors can abandon for simply being downed one too many times, there's genuinely no reasonable argument for this to not be a thing.
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This is just muddying the waters to make them seem deep.
It's simply a case of no one likes having their time wasted once a match is effectively over.
Survivors don't like having to wait to bleed out on the ground, and Killers don't like having to wait out the EGC timer. So just let the affected party take the L and replace them with a bot in these situations.
I can't understand all of this mental gymnastics to deprive the Killer of an already-existing QoL feature that doesn't affect your experience in any meaningful way.
-1 -
Exactly. This ^
Sidenote - I would love to have further development done for killer bots, since in almost every bug patch they are always optimizing bots for survivors.This is a feature I have long waited for. 😁
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Survivors don't really get the dopamine hit from finishing the gens, but rather when they walk out of the door. If you take that away from survivors, where do they get their "hit" from?
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Yup this is exactly why I said there's no reasonable argument against killers being able to abandon in EGC which is why people downvote without actually providing a counter argument. They simply cant.
Case and point.Post edited by Brimp on0 -
Survivors get the abandon option when they literally can't do anything to progress the game, nor to even earn points.
Killers want it so they can give up and quit without the DC penalty. That's not a mentality that should be catered to.1 -
I would still add 10 second wait time before abandoning option is used as its unhealthy for the game when last survivor goes down and pop its a bot.
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So the people who play killer and are against this are biased against killer? Or are you just projecting your own biases?
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everytime this question comes up i give the only answer thats needed.
achievements, rfit challenges, tome challenges. Some rely on and endgame scenario to complete. Unless killer bots are added, killers should not be able to deny these things from happening because they lost.As a killer player i remember how hard adepts used to be. Needing to get merciless killer (12 hooks) and 4k, just to be denied because that final player dc’d and bots were not a thing.Thus no 4k no adept. Survivor players shouldn’t be denied either.
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survivors can bring unbreakable conviction and boon exponental if all survivors are slugged (which survivors are throwing hard for that to happen) they can just abandon the moment the last survivor hits the ground and survivors are rewarded for not using these perks
-5 -
Unbreakable is a one time use, Conviction is only active once every time you heal another survivor, and Exponential is easily snuffed out. All of these perks are easily exhausted. Do you really want survivors to permanently have these perks in their build as well? That's generally not a good idea for the sake of build diversity.
Killers, on the other hand, still have agency once the generators are powered. They can still get a kill or get points by whatever means. They aren't stuck helpless in place for 4 minutes. Because they too have perks that help them in scenarios, believe it or not. Bring perks like Remember Me, or No Way Out, or NoED if you're feeling adventurous.3 -
^this
OPs suggestion is not great because the game can really swing during the endgame, and if killer could legitimately abandon then it ends the game instantly.
But once gates are open survs are generally free and clear unless you have someone injured in chase far from gate, or you're playing a very particular killer who can block gates like wesker. It would be nice to prevent survs waiting to bm. Personally though I just go around the map bashing doors and downed pallets for extra bp in that situation. Instead of going to see of survs who will probably bm.
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Don't forget bloodwarden. When I play surv I live in fear of that perk if we haven't identified all 4 perks lol
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Because the abandon feature is dogs##t in general and encourages leaver mentality.
I wish the survivors didn't get this option to show up so easily.
And I don't think this option should show up easily for killers either.-3 -
Are you ok with survivors getting the abandon option if someone has died at five gens? this is basically the equivalent survivor situation
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Why don't we just all stop playing the game at this point if we are so ready to quit when something isn't going as planned?
Allowing players to abandon matches for X, Y, Z reasons was a bad idea from the start. It encourages quitter mentality and spreads like a virus.
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Exactly. Not just encourages the mentality, but allows the devs to dodge having to make meaningful changes to flawed aspects of the gameplay. Why do something about pain points when you can just have abandons pop up for any reason at all.
-2 -
While I'm not sure it would change anything since most toxic survivors have no life and are max level on everything it would still be quite funny to see.
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mmr inflation, killer should get the mmr if he abandon after a win match.
-3 -
Exactly either everybody can abandon or nobody can abandon makes your choice
-1 -
Unbreakable is a one time use, Conviction is only active once every time you heal another survivor, and Exponential is easily snuffed out. All of these perks are easily exhausted. Do you really want survivors to permanently have these perks in their build as well? That's generally not a good idea for the sake of build diversity.
they're probably going to if diminishing returns but
Unbreakable - one time use people were complaining that slugging was such an issue that survivors should have be running it every game bur instead of that thetadded the abandon feature
conviction - only active once every time you heal another survivor with resurgance being meta and not rinning self care most people are going to heal others at least 1 game
Exponential - easily snuffed out you can place boons infinitely and it goes through floors if 2 or more people run it sluggingis qlmost impossible
Killers, on the other hand, still have agency once the generators are powered. They can still get a kill or get points by whatever means. They aren't stuck helpless in place for 4 minutes. Because they too have perks that help them in scenarios, believe it or not. Bring perks like Remember Me, or No Way Out, or NoED if you're feeling adventurous.
unless you build specifically for endgame (which your just throwing at that point) that's not true since if your in endgame it's probably 3 -4 people live at endgame and toy specifically have to tunnel out the obsession remember me to work so if survivors decide to bring shoulder to prevent the tunnel or ds otr resurgence bt and a whole other host of perks not to mention bodyblocking , no way out can be circumvented by just touching the door and hiding and noed has revealed itself since 6.0 so only 1 person will get downed from it then it goes away and eben then only a singularity would run this w/o noed since he's the best at pressuring the gates
-6 -
"they're probably going to if diminishing returns but"
Diminishing returns isn't going to affect any of these mentioned perks, what are you even talking about?"Unbreakable - one time use people were complaining that slugging was such an issue that survivors should have be running it every game bur instead of that thetadded the abandon feature"
You're expecting and suggesting that Unbreakable be a permanent perk in a survivor's build, and you don't see a problem with that? We'll come back to this argument later…"conviction - only active once every time you heal another survivor with resurgance being meta and not rinning self care most people are going to heal others at least 1 game"
You're not always going to be able to get the heal off on another survivor. Just because something is "meta" doesn't me it's 100% garuntee or even be reliant enough to warrant to bring."Exponential - easily snuffed out you can place boons infinitely and it goes through floors if 2 or more people run it sluggingis qlmost impossible "
If the killer doesn't notice the survivor is constantly getting up on their own within a certain area, then that's on them. But if they do notice, they will know not to slug them anymore, or look for the boon. Its easily countered."unless you build specifically for endgame (which your just throwing at that point) that's not true since if your in endgame it's probably 3 -4 people live at endgame"
That right there is why your argument is flawed, and you're too biased to see why. You suggested that survivors bring perks to counter a playstyle, but when the tables are turned around on you, you just say "Nuh uh, I don't wanna" and completely ignore that survivors ALSO don't want to have to be forced to bring in perks every game. Why should survivors have to bring certain perks every match to counter something, when killers aren't? That's such a huge double standard, and it just shows that killer mains refuse to change or even listen, and instead play victim.
Your scenarios of "If it's endgame, it's probably 3-4 people still alive" is also just wrong. If that's what you're consistently ending up with, then that is literally a skill issue.
Again, the reason why Survivors get to abandon is because the criteria for them to abandon boils down to "Nobody can do anything to progress the game" Killers want the abandon button because they just want to give up, even when they can still do something. So imagine for a second that killers do get the abandon feature after 5 gens popped. What do you think will happen?
More and more killers will quit, and they won't even get punished for it. They will cut the game short for the other team because they would rather give up than to at least try. Imagine if even just ONE survivor dc's the game abruptly ends—It'll feel absolutely miserable wouldn't it?
Bringing perks that are a heavily limited resource to every game isn't fun, nor is it a good solution. Especially when the other side won't take the same suggestion.3 -
One is at the literal end of the game the other is survivors playing badly. And even then they can… just get slugged and abandon after that. I don't have an issue with people getting the abandon feature when everyone left is slugged/hooked but the double standards I see from people is insane.
-1 -
No one is not literally the end of the game. Its only the end of the game because you want to abandon.
We could say killers in end game are just killers who played badly and didnt get enough kills (because lets be real, this abandon feature are for killers who get gen rushed / no hooks. Killers are not going to abandon with 2 people left)
Their is a huge diffrence between everyone slugged and hooked and all the gens done, the most comparable is the one person dead at 5 gens because that would feel just as unwinable as a killer once all the gens have popped and everyone is alive.
-2 -
That would just be legitimising ragequitting. The game isn't over just because gens got done. The killer's objective is killing survivors. Survivors get the option to abandon when the game is over (everyone down, dead, or hooked) because the game literally cannot progress at that point. The game is still in progress even when the last gen pops.
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Reminder that the game isn't confirmed to be over when all four are slugged. You never know if a random has unbreakable. Unless you want to remove the abandon option until all self-pickup options are unavailable then killers should 100% have the option to abandon in end game. You don't see people calling the abandon feature in mobas a bad idea as it's used when the game is already 95% a loss and people recognize the wasted time. Like sure they COULD play it out but there's no real point to since it would require miracles to come back and I see next to no one advocating for the forfeit options in League to be removed.
Like I said in my initial post, there is no real reasonable arguments to not have it as an option. If you're getting 4 slugged you're already outclassed by the killer but more understandable if its billy, nurse, blight etc. and if you are in end game as killer you are either playing a weak killer that can't keep up with modern dbd or the survivors were actually good which is rare when it shouldn't be for how low of a skill ceiling survivor has.-3 -
I would be ok with removing abandon option if self pick up options are available because that happens very rarely where someone has anti slug and everyone is slugged.
but they are not comparable, The killer does not need a perk to do end game.-1 -
Who cares? You won..Just leave. This just isn't a valid excuse to be toxic.
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Honestly just slap Tutorial Trapper's AI in when the Killer Abandons, or even make it a special Basement Door that the Killer can leave through while leaving the Survivors alone in the trial. It really shouldn't even be an issue at this point to do one of those things to let Killer players just queue up again, instead of forcing them to feed Survivor egos.
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Game is not over when all the gens pop. When the gates are open and all survivors are healthy though...
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