http://dbd.game/killswitch
Excessive slugging - Holding the game hostage
I've had three killers today slug my remaining teammate repeatedly in order to search for me and furnish a 4K. I kept picking up my remaining teammate, and the killer kept knocking them down. This went on for 3 min, 5 min, and a knight kept us in toba landing for nearly 7 minutes.
My kill rate with most killers is around 60% with some ranging 70-80% (clown/legion/Herman). I have NEVER needed to hold a slug on the ground that long for a 4K. If I can't find 'em within a minute or two I'll just pick up and start the race for hatch. As killer I move at 4.6 so I can easily cover more ground while keeping an eye out for crows. a 3K is a win anyways, a 4K is just a bump in BP and some different text on the screen. I view the time of myself and others as finite resource to be optimized.
What I've seen today is borderline egregious. When the anti-tunneling/slugging update came, I was one of the many voices on X and TikTok advocating for killer mains; those were some extremely punishing mechanics that genuinely punished the act of playing killer. After what I've seen during this Blood Moon event-after these last 8 months, if BHVR brings them back I will remain silent.
Comments
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Yeah, killers are escpecially obliged to get their 4k.
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While sadly this is something a lot of killers do.. it's not really that bad. If they are that dedicated at that point you and that duo or random need to accept that the play is to just bleed out and hide and hope to find hatch. I don't play that way either as a killer main but if people want it that badly a lot of people are willing to waste as much time as they need to get it.
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Issue is with the new afk crow system, you will get crows if you just hide the whole slug timer. you have to be picking them up or touching gens. (which gives the killer a clue of your general area)
Could be solved by disabling afk crows in the situation.5 -
Only reason i can see trying that hard for it, is an adept achievement thats been tough to get done.
They should make it so that 3 kills is an official win on all fronts, the achievements, the emblems, the points etc. And the 4th being a 50% chance at a few bonus points. This may seem like handholding but consider the survivor "wins" if they alone get out the door or hatch while everbody else dies, as its not a "team win" kind of game. You get points for rescuing eachother but at no point is there something like " escape with atleast 3 surviving team mates" etc
Even the finnisher mori is proof the entity doesnt care about a 4th sacrifice, giving the survivor and easy escape chance and the killer a "don't have to sacrifice" pass
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Well, while that is true I didn't say you had to stay in one place. most survivors walk the outer perimeter of the map and crouch. Running here and there or going in and out of a locker to prevent crows. There's ways to be mobile and hide at the same time. Which in the case of the original post is more than likely the thing to do when they are slugging like that.
edit: Also, love how people downvote and then don't post why lol. It's not like I was incredibly wrong in my original post. Plenty of people have had to do just that in those moments. myself included. Kinda wish when people disagreed with something though they'd give some sort of response and actually contribute to the conversation.
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Lockers and running don't stop crows. You have to work on gens for a set amount of time, fully open chests, and fully cleanse totems.
@topic if we aren't going to get any basekit anti-slug, we should at least get a manual bleed out option to finish the timer out and make hooking more advisable than slugging.
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Makes sense. i tend to do a little of most of that in those situations, but just for points. nice to know it's also my crow repellent.
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A better solution is to fix the mechanic of the hatch. The problem with the hatch is that it is just pure RNG, there's very little skill involved with either party. It is just whoever gets lucky enough to spot if first. A better solution would be to create an entire new mechanic for the final escape. My personal favorite idea is as follows:
- Once there are 2 survivors dead, and a 3rd is downed a portal spawns near the 4th remaining survivor. That survivor can choose to enter the portal (or not if they want to attempt the save).
- The killer cannot see the portal, and if the survivor moves a bit away from it, it will spawn another one near them, basically allowing them to always have the choice to enter the portal.
- If the other survivor is healed, or gets up, this portal disappears until the same conditions above are met.
- If the survivor goes through the portal, the other survivor is immediately sacrificed, and the last remaining survivor is fully healed and they and the killer are placed into a new zone and a short 3-5 second countdown starts (think like, the Halloween event, or the new killer they are working on the judgement)
- In this symmetrical zone, there's 4 decently good tiles spread out just enough that you can't chain them together, but if the killer breaks the pallet you have enough time to get to then next one. In the center of the zone is a hatch that is closed.
- The killer and survivor always spawn on opposite ends of the zone
- In this zone, all killer powers and perks are disabled, all survivor perks and items are disabled, and the killer's movement speed is set to 4.6, and the survivor is set to 4.0. Bloodlust is also disabled.
- While not in a chase, the survivor's location is revealed to the killer every few seconds (like 2-3 seconds of aura reading or a bubble, just so the survivor can't hide forever)
- After say, 40 seconds, or a minute, or 80 seconds or whatever feels good (enough for a solid chase), the hatch opens, and cannot be closed by the killer, this means that survivor can escape.
- If the survivor is downed, the killer automatically starts the final mori sequence.
This basically removes the entire RNG component of the hatch, and pits the killer and the survivor into a fair 1v1 scenario for a short time. No killer powers, no perks, no items, no nothing, just raw 1v1 at base speeds with no gimmicks or bloodlust. This makes it skill based for both sides, . The portal also is always the choice of the survivor, so that if they feel like they want to go for the save on that other teammate, they always have that option and aren't forced into it. The idea here is this zone is also easy to balance as in theory, it should be a 50/50. So if say, survivors escape too often from this zone, you need to nerf the tiles a bit. Or if killers win too often, you strengthen the tiles a bit. Or you can play with the chase timer, or other things that are much easier to balance.
-2 - Once there are 2 survivors dead, and a 3rd is downed a portal spawns near the 4th remaining survivor. That survivor can choose to enter the portal (or not if they want to attempt the save).
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I feel like that would have the opposite affect that you want. You would actually encourage slugging because most survivors would use that and kill themselves early (just remember when you could easily ######### on hook). So killers would be MORE incentivized to slug to get rid of someone quick.
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I can explain why I downvoted, only because I simply disagree. When the option is to simply give up to bleed out and die yourself or wait for the other person to, I don’t agree that it’s ‘not really that bad’. Those games are some of the worst negative experiences players can face. Including the option to abandon while slugged or repeatedly slugged seems to even acknowledge this, as there’s no appeal to playing a game where you slowly bleed to death for 4 minutes. So, respectfully, i disagree with the sentiment that it’s not really that bad and you just need to bleed out and die.
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That's true enough. Personally I'd rather deal with that situation and bleed out or be the one who has to in that moment hide and wait it out over some of the other situations killers can put you in at times. So, at least for me I'd rather deal with that than something like lets say.. The killer has a hex. They are hard guarding their hex and even hooking as close as possible to it and in turn hook guarding and tunneling off hook all to protect their totem + the 4k. Often times those end up in 1 dead, 1 on hook, 1 slugged at hook, and 1 person somewhere close by trying to figure out the right moment to trade for either being the new hook or the new slug. Both awful in their own right. The first option just seems.. easier to deal with in my opinion.
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Reminder that this was something on the roadmap to fix that BHVR intentionally scrapped. It's how they want the game to be.
Glad you came to the light at least and understood what we've been dealing with.
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It might be a choice of the standing survivor, but the one that went down might have several ways of getting back up, or knows of a generator thats almost finnished that could activate the doors but poof instakill. And any survivors who are not good at chase (like half the playerbase) would rather get downed and abandon than participate in an e sports level 1 v 1 tournament match at the end of every round. Im sure some would enjoy it as they are confident in their looping, but its still generally in the killers favor.
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The effects of short-form content addiction are just wild.
'Holding the game hostage' means that a player is doing something that literally prevents the game from ever ending unless you DC. Please stop trying to appropriate established terms into whatever you'd like them to mean at your own convenience.
You may wish to think about working on your constitution if chilling out for a couple minutes is too much to handle.
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Well I know you don´t want to hear this… but you can also decide to not hide and get downed by the Killer and skip this whole hide and seek game.
But sadly the Killer has the control of this game the only dicision you can make is if you want to gamble for the hatch.
But if you want to try to escape the killer will do everything he can to Kill you without standing a chance.
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Obviously these things can be tweaked. You only show the portal when that person has no way of getting up for example. Its not an absolute that cannot possibly be tweaked. They already do this kind of thing already with hook states for example. If all the survivors get hooked, they all immediately get sacrificed, unless they have a way to get themselves off the hook (like deliverance, luck mechanic, etc.)
And your other points are confusing. That is literally the point of the game as survivor, to escape the killer. If you aren't escaping the killer you aren't playing dead by daylight. And this actually gives those players an opportunity to practice this skill and get better. And saying "it favors killer" when i'm literally talking about an environment that you can truly balance to be a 50% win rate for both sides seems like a bad take.
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The killer could also ensure the one thats harder to catch gets slugged while the easier one gets sent to the cage match and nearly guarantees they won't loop long enough. Its not about how much you balance that little map and take everyone to the same number values, its the skill value thats in the killers favor. The duo i play with would lose that hatch game every time.
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Something isn't adding up here. How can a killer slug your teammate for 5-7+ minutes? It doesn't take that long to bleed out.
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Still a better system than the current hatch.
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Just make it that the hatch spawns if only one Survivor is left standing and one is slugged.
So all 3 Players left have something to do.
Both Survivors, the crawling one and the last man standing could get the hatch and the Killer can decide if he hooks the slugged one or trys to find the hatch.
When one Survivor escapes through the hatch the mori Animation starts for the remaining one. If the hatch gets closed both Survivors die.
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I wonder…What if a survivor in the dying state could crawl to an incomplete generator, slowly pick themselves up to a crouching position (by using the generator itself to pull themselves up), and do the generator (maybe at 50% speed, you ARE dying, after all) and when they decide to leave the gen, whether they complete it or not, they end up back on the ground. While on a generator, it could also pause your bleedout timer.
It would be better than doing nothing, and forces the killer to either hook/kill you or risk getting a 2k instead of a 4k.
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This honestly sounds like such a fun hatch rework I love it!
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They said they picked the person up, so my guess would be that the slugged person got picked up and chased for some amount of time before being slugged again.
@Topic:
This does not count as holding the game hostage, since the game will eventually end with the Bleedout. However, I also think it is a big flaw, since the Killer is prolonging a game they already won, just to win harder. I dont know what is going on in the head of those people, but nobody would deny that this Killer won if not all Gens were done and they would get a 3K, even if the last Survivor gets the pity escape via Hatch. (Which is also more in the Killers favor, since they are faster and dont have to hide)
However, as already said, Anti-Slugging is scrapped, so this is how the Devs want the game to play. The Survivor on the ground has to wait up to 4 minutes while not being able to do anything so that the Killer can win even harder in a game they already won.
IMO the only thing which can be done here, if they dont want to do any form of Anti-Slugging, is to let the Survivor on the ground abandon. This would at least get one person out of it while the Killer can still slug for their precious 4K.
As a tip for you, if you see that the Killer is slugging a Survivor to look for you, just hide. There is 0 point in picking up the Survivor, they will not be able to get far away from their location and the Killer will either patrol a bit around the slugged person or be back very quickly. So just hide and hope for Hatch or if you want it to end rather quickly, you can also go into a chase to get some more points. But picking up a slugged Survivor multiple times does not help at all, you will not change the result and you will also only prolong it. (Which is kind of ironic that to get the game to an end you have to be an Antimate because one person wants their 4K…)
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The bleed-out-effect should just be activated if two survivors are left. And it should still be like 10-20 seconds, similar like the hookdying animation.
Personally i would prefer your option. I would even take an 1vs1 without an escape as reward, but some players struggle with looping.
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Slugging for the 4k is just an obnoxious experience most of the time. I get it if the other person is literally in eyeshot but if the killer has no idea where the other survivor is - just freaking hook. The whole point of the hatch is that there is supposed to be a last ditch, possibility for escape for the last person present in a match. Intentionally avoiding a phase of the match that is intended to be there is a cheese.
I had a match the other day where the killer went through 3 rounds of a cycle where he'd down the other person, I'd run in and get them up once I had an opening from them going off to look for me, then they'd come back and down me, then repeat. The desperate need to dominate us rather than risk the possibility of a freaking normal 3k win was ridiculous.
There was another one where after a night of wasting one pie offering after another on killers playing the event like their lives depended on minimizing any blood points the survivors could earn that I got absolutely sick of it and hid in a locker. It's not like I could get to them anyway - the killer was guaranteed to see me based on where the slug was and their patrol pattern. I legitimately stopped caring about the match at that point and made it my goal to be as obnoxious as I could possibly be right back at that player. It takes 2 to tango - I wasn't the one who left them on the ground without hooking them.
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Don't survivors get the abandon option when slugged multiple times? Or is this complaint more for the survivor not slugged?
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It would have to be conditional, and have a timer before it starts, and the bleedout wouldn't be fast. But bleedouts don't count as kills on personal stats, so currently the only satisfaction I can get when I'm left on the ground is to hide and try to rob them of the kill.
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I would say it's more for the Survivor not slugged. It just feels bad to leave the other person to bleed out even though picking them up will be pointless, and would only drag on the lost game even longer. Knowing BHVR, all they would do is add another abandon option when only two survivors remain. Not the route I would agree with, mind you, but everyone knows that giving survivors a reason to stick out the match until the end is not allowed.
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Yes, this is true. But to get the chance to abandon in this circumstance, you have to rely on the other Survivor to make a bad play and trying to pick you up. (Again, funny that helping your teammate is the bad play in this situation)
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