http://dbd.game/killswitch
Windows is both my favorite and least favorite perk.
I both love and hate the perk because it's a crutch. As killer its annoying to be taken perfectly to every window and pallet without the survivor needing any effort on their part to think on their feet. (Especially since it doesn't have a cooldown like it used to for some godforsaken reason) However bringing blindness makes it absolutely hilarious. (Side note, can we get some more blindness perks? Like there is a lot of aura reading on both sides now, wouldn't be bad to have more options) Since, a lot of, people who use the perk almost always use it the second they get blindness they usually get downed because they have no idea how to string loops/tiles together without it. Now some people who use it don't have this issue, but its funny to see those that do.
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you could run zanshin and also follow the yellow where you'll inevitably meet the WoO gamer.
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na. people without looping skill who use windows are easy to down. they barely look behind them and don't tie tiles togother. they just run pallet to pallet and don't mind game so they are predictable. and the moment a survivor is predictable they are done. it's only the master loopers who understand how to read the info properly to tie loops together that you need to fear with windows.
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Props to the first sentence of this thread.
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Make it only work when you are injured. Would give value but would not give it all the time.
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I don't use Windows but it isn't a crutch perk. You could have 10k hours and know every possible pallet spawn location. What you don't know is what your team has already used. That's what it's good for.
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You might know where they would spawn but if they would be there 100% you would never know until you run past it as quite many maps there is quite a lot of variation of where the pallets will be. In Badham for example any pallet on the road can be in any point of it as they are totally random of what versions of the tiles spawn there.
Post edited by Wezqu on5 -
Its quite noticeable when playing as something like dredge, where your "mind game" power is countered by going to the next tile, which seems to always have yet another pallet despite how many you've broken lol. Since they have the perk there is barely any hesitation to go to the next pallet, then the next. Whereas without it theyd be more focused on you and trying to make the current loop last as long as they can.
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Oh windows is 100% my crutch perk. I'm not particularly good at running chase so it at least lets me keep a chase going for more than 20 secs by knowing where the nearest pallet or window is. Idk why they added breakable doors to windows aura reveal though
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Amen. I'm just the worst as bait so I use this perk for every1 to have a good time. You're welcome! ;)
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Dreadge now will be same speed as survivor when doing this so it still will counter him but less than before thankfully.
But I dont believe his player count will rise that much.
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Windows gives you very valuable information for sure but it still relies on the skill of the player. Just like seeing auras of generators gives a killer valuable information, but it’s up to the skill of the player to defend those gens.
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Those two aura abilities are noway comparable at all. Windows needs a nerf and I already gave a good option earlier in this thread to how to nerf it and make it different from the new perk they added with Kwon.
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I think we’ll have to agree to disagree. Similar to Killers seeing survivor Auras with various perks, that’s great information but it doesn’t mean anything unless you have the skill to actually get the down.
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I say we stop adding bogus conditions for survivor perks to work. Could you imagine the outcry if Pain Res had the requirement that at least 1 gen was finished before it could work?
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I would not see a problem with that as quite often one gen is done anyway before you hook. Still a perk that is always active gives the most useful information to one side that can be is not healthy even if how much you try to defend it.
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So now you change it to survivor auras that I might agree but there is no killer perk that shows them all the time. Windows is on from start to finish of the trial it has the biggest up time and value than most other perks that are on from the start to finish. For example Zanshin the killer equivalent is also not comparable to it in value.
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I agree. I also agree that we should remove auras from hooks and generators for killers because those are always present and provide too much of a tactical benefit for the role.
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I disagree on those though.
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I hear that, but I think it’s off set by the fact that there’s only 1 killer, so there’s not a chance of another teammate using a resource without you knowing about it. Windows is the best way to know what resources are still available because you have no control over that.
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Yeah and that is the strength of the perk it gives really vital information without any downside. Thats why as I said make it work when you are injured and it still gives you huge value but only when you most need it.
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I just don’t think it needs the downside, especially since you have no control over what resources are used or when it happens. The perks strength depends entirely on the skill of the individual. If we can acknowledge that killer aura perks like Lethal, Friends Till the End, nurses calling etc. are fine because they still require skill of the killer to take advantage of them, I really don’t see why windows of opportunity is held to a different standard.
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Every perks strength depends on the individual using it that is not an excuse to keep a perk that literally is most picked and is shown to be highly powerful to not be changed. Like if this would be a killer perk most people would be making thread every week complaining about it but when its a survivor perk its somehow totally fine to be very strong and should not be touched.
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I’m sorry but I don’t think that being able to see windows or pallets at all times would be comparable to a killer being able to see a survivor aura at all times. Im open to hearing your perspective on why you may believe differently. But seeing a survivor aura 100% of the time, in my opinion, is much stronger than seeing windows/pallets. I feel like it makes sense why it’s not 100% of the time, because it would be way too strong. And I thought you agreed that killer aura was fine because it still relied on skill. Why are the standards so different?
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To survivor windows and pallets are your life line they might not be as valuable as seeing survivors as killer but very close to it. In the end they are most valuable asset survivors have and that can't be denied. I am not asking any difference just that a perk that is clearly not healthy for the game to be brought to healthy level. I would never even want a perk that would show survivors auras 100% of the game but still why survivors need to see pallets and windows vaults 100% of the match either?
Post edited by Wezqu on-1 -
pain res got nerfed to it's current state actually. it didn't have tokens before and worked on every hook it also had a scream l
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I don’t agree that it’s unhealthy for the game. SWFs don’t need a perk like Windows because they just call out what’s been used. Nerfing it would mostly hurt solo survivors, especially newer or more casual players who don’t know map layouts or tile spawns yet.
Yes, pallets and windows are valuable resources, but they can be wasted completely outside of your control. Survivor already has plenty of built in punishment through teammates mistakes, and burned resources are part of that.
If we agree that killer aura-reading perks are fine because they still require skill to use effectively, then I don’t see why Windows should be treated differently. Killers also have constant access to strong aura-based information without perks like generator auras, which allow for early 3-gen setups, and hook auras, which help with positioning and map pressure. Those are meaningful resources, and they’re freely available. So when you say they’re not comparable, but also agree the criticism between Windows and killer aura perks is the same, the standard being applied to each role isn’t really lining up.
So why nerf a skill-dependent perk that mostly supports solo queue, when it’s being criticized for the same things you’ve already said aren’t an issue for killer aura perks?0 -
I am sorry but your point again does not make sense when there is no killer perk with same level of value than WoO gives to survivors that is on 100% of the match. I have stated this already several times and only counterpoint is people talking about skillful usage of perks that literally is same on all perks all of them demand skill to use well. I am done debating this as I don't see this going anywhere. I have made my points why it needs a nerf and so far have not got any counterpoint of why it shouldn't. Even those here who posted of defense of the perk are just giving even more reasons why it should be nerfed as their argument are just proving that its not healthy to the game. I know I am maybe yelling in the wind but I know I am correct in this opinion and I am not the only one who considers this perk a problem.
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I get if you feel the discussion isn’t going anywhere, but disagreeing with counterpoints doesn’t mean you haven’t been given any, I’ve already explained why I don’t think the perk is unhealthy you just don’t agree.
You acknowledged that permanent aura-reading on survivors would be stronger than Windows. So using that as a reason to say Windows is too strong doesn’t make sense. Because out of the two options, one being windows and one being 100% aura on survivor, windows is the weaker of the two, which you admit to but also still want the weaker version of the two to get nerfed, making it even more weak.
At that point, the argument falls back on the same criticisms used for killer aura perks and windows, both give information, but both still take skill to actually get value. But you’ve already said those are fine for killer because they require skill to use, but not for survivor?
It just feels like a big double standard. So the question of why a skill-based perk that mainly helps solo queue should be nerfed for reasons you’ve already dismissed on the killer side remains unanswered.
I appreciate your perspective, even though I disagree.
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Yeah thanks for not understanding but I was not the one comparing perks that was the defenders of it. I have all the time gone with the explanation that its needs a nerf because of the amount of most useful information it provides and never ever stops doing so. That is my reasoning I don't need anything else to it. Stop trying to inflate my argument with useless info.
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there is no killer perk with same level of value than WoO gives to survivors that is on 100% of the match
Both teams have resources that are intended to be expended as a natural and normal part of gameplay. These resources buy time for the team to complete their actual objective as they are consumed.
For survivors, this is pallets, and it requires a perk to see where the RNG of the game has distributed them, and to see which are still remaining.
For killers, the expendable resource is gens. And, no, there's no perk, because it's a base kit ability to see these with 100% uptime.
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and what is this on about yeah they have and the point is? I am not talking about resources but if a perk needs a nerf.
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You said there's nothing like that for killer. There's absolutely is, and it's base kit.
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As a Perk as I said there is not. In the end the gen info is still less than what you get from WoO.
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So if they made woo base kit you'd be ok with that?
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🤣
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Well, you didn't argue that killers had it. You only wanted to argue semantics of "it's a perk". So, the only conclusions would be that either woo should be base kit like seeing gens already is, or maybe your point is that killers should have to equip a perk to see gens all the time.
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I did not argue about anything I was answering someone else argument. I already stated what my stand is and what my argument is and so far I have not get any good counter argument for it. Only attempts to water down my argument by adding stuff that has nothing to do with it or trying to get me to engage of schematics and I don't think there is no reason to me to do so anymore. I will really like to see when someone comes up with some good counter argument that anyway has any good reasoning why the perk does not deserve a nerf.
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Look, I quoted you initially to what I was responding to. You were saying that killers do not have anything like woo that is 100% uptime.
Here's the quote of your words again for you:
there is no killer perk with same level of value than WoO gives to survivors that is on 100% of the match
When I pointed out that, not only do killers have this ability, but it's also free and base kit for them, you have no argument.
So your entire argument is just, basically "nerf survivors" and have no reasoning or rationale that stands up to even the barest hint of scrutiny. Or, at least, you aren't willing to try to explain it justify your stance.
And that's ok. You are absolutely entitled
to your opinion.
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So you taking one sentence where I am answering someone does not make you right of anything and I would recommend you to not state something about someone being entitled as it can be taken as an insult. I am not stooping that low.
I have explained my stance several times already me repeating it will not change it.
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There's no benefit to see gens, more than knowing where they are.
WoO gives you a clear advantage by being able to plan your escape across the map.
It's like putting a blindfold on your opponent in chess.-2 -
No benefit?
It's only the most likely place to find survivors, and specifically the only place to find survivors who are actually working on gens.
I bet you'd find an awful lot of reasons to keep this "useless" ability if they ever decided to get rid of it though. Or if, say, they made it take a perk slot instead of being base kit.
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You still have zero knowledge IF survivors will be at said gen. You have 7 different options to go to…
Mind you, I've only played survivor the last year or 2. I wouldn't mind if they changed it to a perk.
WoO is still OP, imo. And it shows, since everyone and their mother is using the perk every single match.-3 -
So, it gives you a guidance of where to go, but doesn't actually play the game for you or guarantee success once you get there?
Huh, neither does woo. Thank you for making my point for me, someone else does get it!
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You're just trying to ragebait at this point.
WoO is like a wallhack for survivors.
Seeing 7 gens, against 4 players does literally nothing. It's the same as seeing exit gates for survivors…
I'm done here. Have a nice day.-2 -
You can't even acknowledge similarities in these abilities, and it's because you desperately want one of them and want the other removed.
No one goes to where the gens are completed to look for survivors (unless they already have better information, like a perk or previous have knowledge like a boon that was snuffed earlier).
Just like you won't go intentionally to a dead zone with woo. In both cases, wandering blindly into the unknown is objectively worse than having the information to guide you where to start looking.
Nothing about that information tells you how or when to use those resources. But especially when we get killers where the only meaningful counter play is pallets, then either there needs to be a way to find pallets, or those killer needs to be changed.
I'm not even advocating for it to be base kit or anything, just leave it alone. Just because something might be useful or functional doesn't mean that survivors should have to have it nerfed.
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Wraith and Legion have add-ons that give them constant gen progress info, and thus constant survivor locations. What's the difference?
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