http://dbd.game/killswitch
Should Exhaustion-Perk Haste Vary More?
To explain that title a bit, I'm looking specifically at four perks: Sprint Burst, Lithe, Balanced Landing, and Smash Hit.
All four of those perks trigger the exact same status effect for almost the exact same amount of time between them; it's always 50% Haste, and the only variance in duration is that Smash Hit lasts for 4 seconds instead of the other three's 3 seconds.
It's no secret that Sprint Burst has been one of the game's strongest perks since its inception, and Lithe isn't that far behind. Similarly, most would agree Balanced Landing is generally a step below those two, and Smash Hit - while still fairly usable - is a step below even that.
My question is this: Should a perk as broadly useful and easy to activate as Sprint Burst have comparatively identical effects to something as situational as Balanced Landing? Is it appropriate for an easily-activated perk like Lithe to give almost exactly the same distance as a difficult to activate perk like Smash Hit?
We already have some precedent for the effect varying, with Smash Hit's extra second, but I think it's an interesting discussion to consider if maybe the percentage could vary based on how easily accessible the perk is, alongside maybe the duration changing too.
I'm phrasing it as a question because right now it's just that, a question. I think there's arguments to be made both ways, so I'm curious what everyone else thinks!
Comments
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I do think sprint bursts exhaustion should be the longest because of how easy use it is and how hard it punishes m1s compared to dash killers. And with vigil being what it is rn plus other stuff like ghost notes. Exhaustion could be higher.
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I'm not thinking of the Exhaustion timer itself here, more the percentage and duration of the Haste effect. That's the part if I'm wondering should be different between the different perks based on their accessibility.
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No it's fine the way it is, I can't tell you how many times I've used sprint burst against nemesis just for him to catch up and lunge me from across the map with an m1, I think the issue is inconsistency, like when I'm nemesis they zoom away and I almost can never catch up but when I'm survivor the experience is polar opposite, it honestly doesn't make sense and this happens with so many games between so many different killers it hinders my experience as a killer and I know it does other killer mains because we all keep complaining about the experience we have as a killer, it doesn't work the same when you're survivor though. When I run sprint burst now, it feels 50% slower than it did a week ago and the duration is like 50% reduced than a week ago, idk it's a shadow nerf to my account or just a shadow nerf to sprint burst in general because all of a sudden my teams that were dominating a week ago are all dying now every single game.
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SB is the most free of them all. Lithe you still often have to use smartly. A bad vault as a trigger attempt will get you hit. Same with BL and the stagger. Smash Hit should be more rewarding since you have to succeed more.
I don't use SB as survivor and I hate it as a 4.4 killer, but I don't think changing it would be good for the game. Survivors do need something. There's too much variety in killers to change it. Oni and Ghoul and other mobility killers don't care about SB. Nerfing it's duration would make it even less useful because it wouldn't affect slower killer much either.
Perks are just a dice roll. If I want to play a 4.4, I have to accept I might get 4 prerunners with SB and Vigil and I'm just screwed. Sometimes your build/character is wrecked by your opponent. That's just the game.
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I think its fine for them all to have the same effect with different conditions. It lets you pick which one suits your playstyle. The main thing is making sure that the effect is the same distance. For example smash hit lasts a little bit longer because you are stuck in the pallet animation. I'd also say head-on could probably increase the stun slightly, or so its less abusable, give you a shorter duration sprint burst when you come out, so it can be a bit more in line with the others.
The main problem one as mentioned is sprint burst. The problem isn't how effective it necessarily is at dealing with m1 killers, because with sprint burst you can also choose to not take the chase. The problem is that it can be 99'd and then used in a chase anyway. That is where i think its probably a bit too strong. Perhaps maybe if it had a condition that said that it went on a short cooldown while you in chase, like 5 seconds, so that if the killer starts a chase with you it can't be used in the middle of the chase unless you first drop chase. That way it can appropriately be used as intended as sprinting quickly away from a gen or something when the killer starts coming closer to you.
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Exhaustion is why Mindbreaker is a must have now. Feels like your setting yourself up for failure if you dont have it.
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The conversation I'm trying to start here isn't really about if Sprint Burst is fair to deal with, M1 killer or otherwise, it's about the comparative design space between these perks.
If they all have the same distance gain, then the perk that gives that distance with the most reliability and/or least effort will always just objectively be the better perk, and not picking it will always be a case of being willing to sacrifice less value for the satisfaction of running something different.
If, though, the amount of distance you gained was a balance variable, I think there's a fair argument to be made that there'd be more of a decision to make based on playstyle— do you take the most distance but play around trying to activate it, or do you pick the more consistent + accessible perk but make less distance per activation, that sort of thing.
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Well that's precisely my point i think distance gained should be the same, and each one has different conditions to activate. This creates a situation where, you personally just take the perk that fits your playstyle the most. The problem you are talking about where people just take the best one, is what i'm saying about sprint burst. The problem is that each exhaustion perk has a downside in how they activate. But sprint birst effectively does not, because you can 99 it. So if you couldn't 99 it, then now it has a downside that is meaningful, in that, you have to walk around with it to not activate it early, or risk not having it when a chase starts.
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Conceptually? Yeah, I could see it.
In practice, probably not. I worry that the line between slight nerf and destroying the perk would be pretty unclear. Each perk has its unique strengths and downsides that I think balance them okayish.
I agree with @supersonic853 that adjusting the exhaustion timers would be a more workable approach.
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Should a perk as broadly useful and easy to activate as Sprint Burst have comparatively identical effects to something as situational as Balanced Landing? Is it appropriate for an easily-activated perk like Lithe to give almost exactly the same distance as a difficult to activate perk like Smash Hit?
Personally, we would argue no they shouldn't. We'd argue that the harder the condition to trigger it, the more value it should give. For practical purposes though we don't think you can tinker to much with them since haste on survivors is generally very useful. Ex: you can get good distance from smash hit due to the stun and sb that follows, enough that unless your a mobile killer is a bad chase to continue less they're near the edge/cornered. Improving it further is asking for trouble to the killers who can't say "screw pallet".
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Balanced landing problem lies with the map design. Devs are making currently the same mistake as with old Shelter Woods with new maps. Those maps don't have ramps, hills, or any drops to trigger it. If those maps would have like a generic drops to trigger it, then it wouldn't be a problem.
And Smash Hit is just situational. It's not a bad perk, but I think it should trigger like parental guidance (Whenever you stun the killer by any means instead of pallet) but then i don't know if the synergy with perks like DS, last stand or blast mine etc. would be good.
And the reason why Smash Hit has 4 seconds instead of 3 is because this perk triggers when the killer is stunned, meaning when you're still in pallet drop animation. So it's still something like 3 seconds in practice.
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Even if Balanced Landing could be triggered on all Maps, it would be inferior to many other Exhaustion-Perks. Dont get me wrong, it is stupid that maps exist where you cannot trigger Balanced Landing. Either because they dont feature any drops at all or because they might not feature drops because of RNG.
But aside from personal preference, there would be 0 reason to pick Balanced Landing over Sprint Burst or Lithe. Both have more locations to trigger (or dont need any at all). While with Balanced Landing you need to go to a specific location to get value out of it.
IMO they should buff it. Either make the Stagger Reduction permanent again. Some people will protest, because they like to parrot things, but 2026 DBD is not the same as 2019 DBD. There are almost no locations with windows which would trigger Balanced Landing without a drop nearby OR which are just too short anyway. You will get one round (because of the Speedboost) but not a second round, simply because the Stagger Reduction is not enough. BL would be fine with the stagger without creating infinites. At most it would probably make the Perk feel better to use.
OR they buff it to 4 seconds instead of 3. Simply because it is harder to trigger than Lithe or Sprint Burst and most of the time requires some travel to reach a location to trigger it.
The main problem with Smash Hit is basically that it does less against the strong Killers. It is way harder to stun a Blight, Ghoul or Billy than stunning some M1-Killer. Let alone Nurse. The idea to let it affect all stuns would be fine, but I think this will only make it relevant for very few select things like DS, so I dont think it would make the Perk more popular.
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I mean true, Balanced landing should get a buff, at least a small one.
I agree also with Smash Hit, if the killers are playing too smart around the pallets, then you'll barely or almost never trigger this perk and again it's still only 3 seconds of haste in practice so basically it only offers a shorter exhausted timer.
I do also agree that those perks are harder and restricted to use than Sprint burst and lithe
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for sprint burst and lithe i think either make their duration 2 seconds from 3 to compensate for easier activation . Or make their exaustion 60 seconds . Dead hard is in a good spot . Dramaturgy is fine except that vigil basically removes the exposed status . That is more of a vigil issue over anything .
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For both old and new players, I think most all exhaustion perks should be 50% haste (unless they have some gimmick) so that new players can get a feel for how much distance they can make. This also has the benefit of making skill expression associated with exhaustion perks semi-transferable.
As for how long: imo, the harder it is to activate, the longer the haste could be, but I would limit any exhaustion perk that is at 50% haste to a 3-5 second window, and am open to having some exhaustion perks' durations ending with a decimal place, like 3.5s duration.
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I feel like the perks themselves are fine, but it's how fast people can get rid of Exhaustion that makes them into problems.
Vigil should get a nerf, for sure.
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Balanced Landing just needs map designers that are aware of the perk's existence. So uh…if anyone on the team wants to tell them now since I'd assume they're actively working on at least one new map or so today…
Smash Hit…I don't know what you even do here. The problem's always going to be the consistency of getting a pallet stun against a growing roster of killers that don't care about pallets, no way to really fix that, so you do just have to lean into its risk/reward nature. More haste or apply hinder to the killer is the easiest route to go.
Sprint Burst needs a rework that kills the 99ing thing. Like, make it an active ability where you have to stay in place in a sprinter pose for a couple of seconds or something. Would alleviate the problem with people walking around with it (to the detriment of their team) too. Then if you want you can apply extra conditions, like making it only usable while healthy. Then again…that'd enable a Sprint Burst + DH (or any exhaustion perk I guess) as a backup setup…which would actually be pretty interesting to see so screw it.
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That would be the most reasonable. Nerf sprint burst and lithe and buff the weakest exhausted perks
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Oni cares unless he is powered in demon dash thats not good exsample dont forget oni isnt free because he has to earn his power which isnt super easy against better players and you can even counter oni in demon dash with SB if you turn sharp or hug some object that isnt small he cant react there as survivor with SB speed.
SB is in majority cases used at the start of the chase and oni isnt powered half of the time so it counters him very well.
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Yes, easier and less conditional perks like sprint burst and lithe should have longer exhaustion timers, make harder to use ones more rewarding. Remove exhaustion reduction effects because you can't balance these perks with reduced timers unless you balance it for it existing so you'd have to double nerf the recovery timer.
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I'm thinking more of the actual effect, not the Exhaustion timers.
So, hypothetically, Sprint Burst/Lithe getting a smaller Haste bonus/shorter duration, and/or Balanced Landing/Smash Hit having higher bonus/longer time.
Whichever way around you'd resolve the difference, what I'm examining here is whether these perks should all give you approximately the same distance by design.
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I think that just complicates the perk balancing and makes it even harder to adjust after the fact tbh. Maybe duration, but keep the haste the same so people arent thrown off by the differing speeds.
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Also on the Balanced Landing thing: Doesn't the rolling ladder on Hawkins proc it? If so, they literally could've just put that in Trickster's Delusion somewhere (like in that dead corner of the map) and called it a day.
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Sprint Burst could be nerfed to 30% haste for 5 seconds. Or it could have a 0.5 second delay after running.
I also wouldn't mind if they added animations to Survivors when under certain Status effects like making survivors breath louder when exhausted or have them limp when mangled.
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Sprint burst should be 3s of 125 %, 60s exhaustion
Lithe should be 3s of 125 %, 60s exhaustion
Balanced landing should be 4s of 125 %, 40s exhaustion
Smash Hit should be 4s of 150 %, 25s exhaustion
Dramaturgy should have 60s exhaustion
Head On should have 60s exhaustion
Background player should be 4s of 125 %, 40s cooldown
Adrenaline should be have it's speed boost removed and retain the healing aspect
Exhaustion should not decay when moving (walking)
Vigil should be 25 %, not 60 % recovery to everything
Exhaustion should not be removed when hooked
Exhausted survivors should move slower, let's say 2 %
Antiexhaustion perks values should be doubled, fe. genetic limits causing 16s of exhaustion, mindbreaker 10s of exhaustion etc.
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