http://dbd.game/killswitch
Overly Strong Perks
Comments
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"When it can be used as an excuse to nerf something on the survivor side."
Player: tunnels
BHVR: releases a halfway decent survivor perk
Player: um BHVR, this isn't fair to survivors. Their perk forces me to tunnel.
BHVR: nerfs perk
Player: continues tunnelling
Gotta love it lol
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I didn't read the essays before, but I will say, because recently I have been advocating for the unheard, the new players to this elitist's game, that playing with friends who have had the game longer and getting constantly found in a horror game due to the killers constantly knowing where you are. Is not fun. This seems to be a constant to my posts. The people who have been playing for years are not the only people in this game. Sadly some new people buy it and then uninstall.
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The thing about tunneling and it getting fixed is that it's just not easy.
Bhvr and a big part of the community acknowledged the fact that tunneling is a problem but there is not much they can do.
They gave the survivors perks to help with tunneling and they gave the survivors a basekit defense to help them but that's about it. You can't really do much more to help with tunneling because in its core tunneling is the killer doing their objective.
You can't just not allow the killer to do their objective meaning you can't make it so the killer can not tunnel a survivor, you can only make it harder and there is not much more they can do to make it harder.
The only things they could still do is give the unhooked survivor a bit of elusive and force the unhooker to take the heat by traveling his aura and they could work with buffs for going for unique hooks, but that's it I think. There is not much more you can do since more defensive tools would mean more tools that also get used offensive whenever a killer does not tunnel and that stuff bhvr already tried with punishing the killer for tunneling was bs cause that also got used offensive.
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This defeatist talk is just another strategy to keep the needle from moving.
It's nonsense that there's nothing they can do. We know that killers were less eager to tunnel when they were very likely to be hit in the face with a 5 second stun from DS, so why is that not back?
We got two attempts, the second completely half-hearted, and the only thing that rolled out of it was a nerf to anti-tunnel because the ones in charge of the anti-tunnel design are the tunnellers.
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I mean I named two things they could still do but we have to accept that tunneling will always exist.
And you are right old ds did a good job at discouraging tunneling but because it was very strong it was also very good to use when the killer doesn't tunnel.
Essentially if anti tunnel perks are very strong you have the perfect perk for every situation. When the killer tunnels it does it's job and if the killer doesn't tunnel you force him to do it.
If we want stronger anti tunnel perks we need bhvr to find a way to make the game recognise that the unhooked survivor does not try to escape but to body block the killer.
Bhvr needs to work with positive reinforcement and give killers who don't tunnel something nice, that could reduce tunneling but people that want to tunnel will always tunnel and there is no stopping that
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Out of curiosity, what are you referring to when you say that all we got from the anti-tunnel PTBs was a nerf to anti-tunnel?
The basekit duration for Haste and Endurance went up, that's a buff, no?
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- I think thats the point where we need to agree to disagree. Bc i dont think that the killer sees you all the time. There are only some addons like Plagues Black Incense which are problematic.
- You misunderstood me. Well, it wasnt that clear. I meant that if you have a killer which ends chases faster aura is more valuable. But if you have bad chase, a perk that shortens the time of the chase or gives you you more time in general, is more valuable. NtH is exceptionally bad against prerunning.
- Why is it fine if dbd is all about time? If you can stealth without drawbacks the killer loses a lot of additional time. And you can use stealth and chase together. I do it all the time. Its just not 100% safe.
- There will always be an uncontested survivor on the gen. Its 1vs4. Thats a trap for beginner player. Like survivor can only loop to delay the down, the killer player can only delay the gens. Either the killer kills all survivor fast enough or the gens get done. The chess-matches are a thing of the past. Its only possible if one side vastly outskills the other. With that said a killer is perfectly fine letting one survivor stay on gens. If its the same one, hook stages wont be split on 4 players. Better even if the surv stops the gen if the TR gets close.
- If Plague would have a higher pickrate those perks would be dead and nobody would bring them. Distortion only got nerfed bc it became popular. Thats just how DBD is. Many problematic things last a long time bc almost nobody uses it and nobody complains.
- Thats not true. I think we both play for a long time and most survivor just dont bother hiding. Searching for a hidden aurvivor is just a time waste and a bad play. Its only worth it if its the one dead-on-hook-guy, back to the tunneling. That said about how much time are we even talking about? How much killer-time did you waste in an average match before the changes?
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I mean I named two things they could still do but we have to accept that tunneling will always exist.
Sure, it'll exist, in that it will likely always be an option.
It just shouldn't always be the categorically best option, and there's ways to limit scenarios in which that is the case. It'd also help if we'd look at the problem without immediately leaning towards nerfing the survivor side.
And you are right old ds did a good job at discouraging tunneling but because it was very strong it was also very good to use when the killer doesn't tunnel.
It wasn't. DS cannot be activated by the survivor and the killer, when someone tries to DS-bait, can simply leave the survivor slugged out on the ground. That'll slow the survivors down more.
The only problem now is that OTR permits you to take another extra hit, which can be fixed by changing OTR to an info black-out perk. Then DS goes back to 5 seconds, or X seconds basekit with Y seconds added with the perk, and you'd have a meaningful deterrent to tunnelling.
Out of curiosity, what are you referring to when you say that all we got from the anti-tunnel PTBs was a nerf to anti-tunnel?
The basekit duration for Haste and Endurance went up, that's a buff, no?
Oh, true, +5 seconds to basekit Borrowed Time.
And then -50% duration to OTR.
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I think my big problem in general is just that defensive perks will absolutely be used offensively if they are strong.
I am a killer only player and I kinda pride myself on the fact that I dont tunnel, camp or slug with very obvious exceptions like, I won't let you do my hex just cause you came from the hook, I won't just go away from the hook when I see Leon and Dwight "sneaking" towards it etc. but I don't think that is the tunneling or camping that is actually a problem.
And when I get hit by perks that are ment to be a defense against extrem tunnelers or campers it sucks. Sure I get pressure when I slug them but those situations go like this: I need two hits to get rid of the guy that wants to block me and then I can't pick him up but when I slug him he will also be up in no time cause he probably has unbreakable or a guy with a heal perk is not far away. And the guy I wanted to chase is definitely gone and I got a little pressure for not advancing my objective while two people were doing gens.
Thats why I would rather see bhvr go for more stealth for the unhooked while the unhooker gets the heat with aura reading plus other incentives to go for unique hooks then them just making stronger anti tunnel perks
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Oh that's right, that was in the same patch, I forgot about that.
Kinda misleading though, it's not like the OTR nerf affected its performance for anti-tunnel specifically.
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I think my big problem in general is just that defensive perks will absolutely be used offensively if they are strong.
But that's the thing: DS cannot effectively be used for that. As long as the killer doesn't pick you up, you severely hinder your own team by going down for a single bodyblock and spending however long slugged out.
I've only had DS used offensively against me once, and it was my own fault. I never fell for it again and any further attempts to use it resulted in a 4K.
That's why DS is such a strong solution.
Thats why I would rather see bhvr go for more stealth for the unhooked while the unhooker gets the heat with aura reading plus other incentives to go for unique hooks then them just making stronger anti tunnel perks
The problem with that is that the game is already extremely heavily tilted in the killers' favour and giving them yet more buffs is going to render the game unplayable for survivors.
Did it not? If a killer tunnels you off hook but you put on a good chase and he hits you 31 seconds after you get unhooked, is that not a nerf to OTR's function? If the timer was paused during chase, that'd be fine, but it isn't.
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Realistically, if the killer's chasing you off hook, you're going to get hit within forty seconds. If it were at all possible to reliably last that long when targeted off hook, anti-tunnel wouldn't even be necessary because tunnelling wouldn't be as strong as it currently is- A thirty second chase is considered quite good, and that's for chases that don't start tilted heavily in the killer's favour.
Don't get me wrong, I don't like the nerf, but that's because it makes the perk weaker at being a general post-unhook stealth perk, and that was never a problem. As an anti-tunnel tool, the times where you're getting hit at the 41 second onward mark are pretty rare outliers.
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Aura perks allow Killers to navigate more efficiently through large and cluttered maps and cut down on the time spent just wandering and looking for Survivors. Nowhere to Hide is too strong but pretty much every other aura perk is fairly restrained, mainly because Nurse and Ghoul make them ridiculously powerful even in a weaker state.
If Killers don't run aura perks then they're just going to run more slowdown, because they're functionally the only reliable sources of value in the Killer perk pool. Chase perks are too niche and frankly often not strong enough for most Killers to benefit, because if they were they'd be OP on the top tier. And a lot of Killers don't even benefit that much from a surfeit of information. If Slinger or Plague sees you from across the map because of BBQ and Chilli, so what? They can't reach you.
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Maps have become so safe it barely matters, nice try though.
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Just wanted to show you my safest pallet
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LMAO. Might as well be how they implement them now.
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