http://dbd.game/killswitch
Could we get hook incentives?
Before you downvote me into the dirt, please do hear me out - I've no interest in ye olden us vs. them arguments. That being said, having looked into the recent arguments for pro-slugging which baffled me so much, I did hear some compelling arguments. Ultimately, they boil down to a lack of incentives or reasons for a killer to actually hook a survivor.
To the most common point, most hook perks (Pain Res) are considered by killers to be underpowered for the pay-off provided. I'm not interested in correct or incorrect here, just gauging off of the opinions presented by killers. Survivors opinions are not overly important to the argument here as I'm not looking for "The Truth ™" I'm looking for why a behavior is occurring.
Additionally to that, and to me far more interesting, are the amount of popularly run survivor perks and equipment that a killer can completely bypass and/or reduce efficiency of dramatically by slugging. Many of these are incredibly common perks, and some of them reported as annoying to go up against.
"We'll make it"
"We're gonna live forever"
"Decisive Strike"
"Dead Hard"
"Shoulder the Burden"
"Do No Harm"
"Saboteur"
"Adrenaline"
"Boil Over"
"Break Out"
"Flow State"
"Fast Track"
"Deliverance"
So regardless of right or wrong, regardless of "The Truth ™" as would be argued on for perspectives, what do killers gain by hooking? They can activate Scourge Hooks, BBQ, "Grim Embrace", "Pop Goes the Weasel" to list those that occur in the top five killer builds, which are all slow-down heavy builds on Nightlight (yes, suboptimal reporting, working with what I have here.)
But if you slug an individual, unlike hook states, the bleed-out timer never resets adding pressure to healing slugs. This means that you don't really miss out on losing those gen slow down perks, as people go to unslug. Slugging is, effectively, its own kind of slow-down perk that is arguably better than any perk based slow-down mechanic as a result so long as you can slug people. If you can slug people quickly, you effectively lose nothing, but gain hard-counter to many of the most common survivor perks. Okay, sure, so that makes sense.
Another citation I seem to see cropping up is that killers are "punished" for being good at the game. That is to say if a killer can get all four survivors on hooks within the first two minutes of the match, they get less bloodpoints and their MMR pips down for playing more efficiently. So the higher correlation to talent we see in a killer the more incentives they are given to ignore the current system which doesn't properly reward them either way.
I myself don't slug, as I don't see a purpose to it. Short of meme sabo builds, I prefer to hook and slugging never felt necessary. But regardless of whether it's necessary and regardless to the erroneous attempt to shame killers into playing differently, it is telling that so many killers are going this way. The evidence is actually fairly compelling. Why would you deliberately handicap yourself to play by rules that aren't actually rules? If you care about the opposing team having fun, certainly you shouldn't slug, but beyond that there is no reason to not, and many reasons to slug.
Summation - TL;DR
In seeing more and more evidence for slugging I have to admit I see the point and reason to it. I don't think it's necessary for me on my main (Huntress), or on many mains (Blight, Ghoul), but the fact of the matter is that insofar as I can see it outside of shaming arguments there is literally no reason to not slug.
If the behavior was undesirable, properly incentivizing hooking would fix some of it, but that step hasn't been taken so I can't imagine it's considered that big of a problem by BHVR. Equally, more and more survivor perks do gain benefits from this whilst the Killer side feels underwhelmed in similar options whether factual or not. It's not bannable, and it's not implemented into the system to be stopped.
Am I missing something? Is there an argument as to why one shouldn't slug that does not depend upon some kind of emotional appeal? Emotions are grand and all but if I let my opposition win in PVP games just because they beg then it would just push my ranking down, meaning I'd face even less experienced opponent and ruin their days rather than people of my own skill level.
All opinions welcome. Just, you know, try to keep that us v them nonsense out of the thread. It's not constructive and I don't care 'who started it', I showed up after the grand livejournal spats that begat this situation.
Could Hook incentives help, or do we think this is a foregone situation?
Comments
-
My biggest reason for slugging is generally that it slows down pressure to hook. While yes I could buy myself abit of time by proccing a slowdown perk, it just feels like only working to at best undo the time sink of hooking. Slugging puts you in a position where you could keep multiple survivors down while with hooking... Your giving a giant window to unhook when you pick up almost ensuring youll never have more than one survivor on a hook at a time if the survivor team are paying attention at all.
3 -
That's sensible. Do you feel like having incentives to hook could overcome that behavior in you, or would it take something more?
1 -
Honestly, not sure. You're STILL giving the survivor team a big window to do anything knowing I can't pressure them. The HUD tells them there's a 0% chance im going to hit them with a hatchet or something. The only thing that would make THAT go away is if they did remote hooking like with 2v8. Hooking takes up basically no time in 2v8, but I know plenty of ppl threw a fit when killers got remote hooking during the anniversary event.
3 -
I play both sides and honestly I don’t see slugging as a problem with the killer side. If you’re slugged and teammates aren’t picking you up, that’s a teammate problem, not a killer problem. I recall several recent matches where killer slugged me/my teammates multiple times and teammates were good at quickly picking each other up. Killers lost all those matches because they were never getting anyone to death hook.
6 -
Slugging is super risky when 3-4 survivors are up on their feet because they all can move and pick themselfs up and save so only few killers with high mobility or being at two places at once can only make this easier but than again if all 4 loose because they get slugged its on them thats like killer running around single gen thinking he will win because they cant do his gen.
2 -
Ironically if you had an insidious Bubba guarding 1 gen the whole time... he might just win. Survivor teams will throw to do THAT gen.
3 -
There's a major element of the game missing from your rundown here, which is what you get for hooking- it's more than just activating perks, there are basekit benefits to hooking that are very relevant and important to the conversation.
To simplify those benefits, hooking both efficiently progresses your own objective and efficiently slows down your opponent's objective. It's already good at this, spreading pressure this way is as effective as it should be proportional to your skill in keeping it up, and if you just directly buff killers for hooking you run a very real risk of tilting the balance too far towards making killers - especially the stronger ones - far too powerful.
The issue that does exist here isn't that hooking needs to be incentivised over other options, it's that other options can be too good for the effort involved. Slugging is completely fine when it's done in limited, situational ways, but countering very aggressive slugging strats can be dependent on communication and preparing with specific perks ahead of time, which isn't exactly the best spot for something to be in.
To be blunt, the way you fix this issue isn't by adding basekit incentives to hook, it's by just weakening the cheese strat some people employ. It really is that simple.
Something like 9.3's PTB info and bloodlust after hooking could work, to encourage players towards the already good option that currently exists, but even that is a little handhold-y.0 -
Just a quick question about this. You said hooking slows down survivor objectives. How so? Downing someone makes it so they can't do their objective, but hooking someone isn't going to provide anything beyond that.
3 -
The basic rundown is this:
The survivor you've downed cannot do objectives, but neither can the survivor who comes to rescue or the survivor who you occupy in chase while they're rescuing, leaving only one survivor doing gens for that time period. Even if it's short, skilled play has you looping it, continually slowing down the game.
Now, comparing that to slugging, things get a little messy because of the awkward position slugging is in right now. Realistically slugging probably does provide basically similar slowdown… but that's only because the vast majority of survivors, even the coordinated teams, aren't prepared to deal with slugging.
If they are, then slugging just provides weaker slowdown across the board. The survivors have longer to leave their teammate on the ground, that survivor isn't immobilised so they can crawl to teammates to diminish downtime, the methods of picking yourself up are way more accessible than methods of unhooking yourself, so on and so forth.My point isn't that hooking is just flat better than slugging, though, to be clear my point is that if you're going to be talking about what hooking gives you then you need to talk about what hooking gives you or the conversation isn't starting from the right place.
1 -
I feel like even if you look at a survivor's ability to crawl clear across the map to their teammate... the survivor team is being LESS productive if their teammate is down for that long. Whether you hook or slug, its going to require a teammate to come for the rescue either way unless a perk comes in play... which can happen either way.
3 -
In the interest of transparency, I don't feel i'm ignoring the 'benefits of hooking' at all. From what I can tell from the community and the math, the point is that hooking does nothing for the killer (outside of perk activation) that slugging cannot do better. Hooking can 'progress your objective', but so does slugging given the bleed-out meter. Hooking can 'spread pressure' but so can knocking someone down, equally if not more so. Hooking 'slows down opponent objectives' but so does slugging.
That's very much the point, actually! Hooking isn't doing anything in these scenarios that slugging does not do with superior metrics. It takes about as much time to unhook someone as it does to get a recovered slug off the ground, by example - in both hook and slug states the survivor on the ground wasn't doing objectives. Therefor, why wouldn't a killer bypass all those potential perk activations by simply bypassing the hook entirely?
The 'End objective' can be completed by slugging or hooking.
The question then, as I'll repose it, is do we think hook incentives would draw people out of slugging being the more optimized gameplay loop? I agree with you in that generic hook incentives will not work, as a 5% haste for 10 seconds on unique hooking (by example) gives a much higher value to Kaneki or Blight than it does to the Twins or Plague.
I'm not even bothering to try defining potential hook incentives here - I'm just asking if killers feel they would effectively counter-act the higher efficiency rate of slugging or if we think another direction is necessary.
For the record I also agree that the bloodlust approach was a bit hand-holdy, but I also think bloodlust is a pointless and ultimately worthless mechanic as it exists today anyway.0 -
Slugging isn't always a good move. A team on comms that realizes what the killer is doing could just fan out and sit on gens and leave a teammate down for as long as possible. Going for unhooks at the right moment is riskier and has less of a time window, especially since the hook location is static and constantly broadcasted, whereas a slug could crawl away if left alone and be easily and quietly picked up.
The issue, to me, isn't that killers need more incentives to hook (there's already plenty), it's that they need less incentive to slug. If we'd gotten the anti-slug from the ptb, we'd be in a better place right now. Tunneling is at least counterable with skill against most killers. Slugging is a bigger issue to me. A soloq team going against someone with a slugging-specific build doesn't stand much of a chance unless the killer is bad.
1 -
Well, I'd repeat that slugging only provide similar or even sometimes superior metrics if players aren't expecting it. All it takes is the whole team running Unbreakable and slugging's value drops off a cliff.
To the larger point, though, you're still looking in the wrong direction. Considering that hooking as a baseline does its job of slowing the game down and progressing the objective… if slugging does better or even the same, that means slugging is too strong, not that hooking is too weak.
You wouldn't fix the issue with hook incentives, you'd fix it by reigning in slugging so it doesn't function as an alternative anymore. It's only meant to be a specific tool for specific purposes, you shouldn't be able to avoid the game's fundamental interactions with it.0 -
I don't think I'm looking in the wrong direction at all - because I think you're right that's another possible option! Hook incentives or an alternative incentive, or alternatively yes slug disincentivizing would also work. I make the assumption admittedly that incentives will be the chosen route as we haven't see disincentivizations come through from PTB Tests in the past.
Either will work, certainly; but anti-slugging has been discussed to death, so I'm wondering if honey might catch the fly in this case.
Also, unbreakable only works once. Maybe if it worked more it would be a more suitable counter to slug builds? Or if it became base kit as is, is that the thought process you're approaching?
Apologies if I sound combative, not the intent, just trying to shave away these outer layers and see if anyone can present an argument as to why to not slug that goes beyond "It won't work" or "It makes you bad person hue hue", and equally a presentation of what would be enough to convert the play.0 -
When it comes to incentives versus nerfs or active disincentives, it's important to look at the sheer strength of what you're trying to fix in general too.
For example, incentives not to tunnel will never work because tunnelling is at its base just far, far too strong, it's an overpowered cheese strat. People won't be incentivised away from that when it's still an option, they'll just have their cake and eat it too by keeping tunnelling in the back pocket and benefiting from incentives only when it's convenient.If the position we're starting from is that slugging is just as good as hooking (which I'm not entirely in agreement on, just for transparency) then we're rubbing up against that problem. If you only use honey instead of vinegar here, you're not really fixing the core reason people slug.
That's why it's important to recognise that hooking isn't weak and does give you more than just activating slowdown perks, because that's the real comparison being made here- two tools that both do their job, but one's less risky + has a higher likelihood of shutting down more of your opponent's perks.Personally speaking, while I don't view slugging as a HUGE problem, I do think something like those old PTBs with a limited way of picking yourself up in aggressive slugging scenarios would probably be appropriate. That way slugging remains a limited tool you'd use situationally when circumstances demand, but you can't replace hooking with it.
Honestly that part of those PTBs was basically fine the second time around, I think it caught unnecessary strays because of how flawed the anti-tunnel parts were.
1 -
I enjoy incentives to hook; when I play springtrap, I use Rancor and None Are Free pretty religiously even though I'm supposed to ignore the Obsession I'll still want to hook the Obsession just for those sweet, sweet None Are Free stacks.
2 -
For clarity, when you refer to slugging as being a riskier play, do you think it's acceptable for Killers to have the option to make those riskier plays? If it is riskier, then that would insinuate to me that slugging isn't too much of an issue (as others here, cog included, have stated). If that's the case, that is to say that slugging isn't that much of an issue, why engage in considering disincentivizing it?
If it's not an issue because the Killer shoulders the burden (no pun intended) of the riskier play, shouldn't we see such behavior encouraged rather than discouraged?
I'm personally of the camp of honey over vinegar not because I particularly hate slugging I couldn't care less about the actual practice, but because it seems to me that hooks are undervalued. As 100 pointed out, you can take perks to incentivize hooking, but you do have to take them, just as much as you'd theoretically build a 'slug build' to incentivize yourself to slug.
The idea I'm digesting is that it seems awkward to me that a core mechanic (hooking) isn't basekit encouraged enough to surpass the benefits of slugging. I'm unsure of any incentivizations that would work short of having each killer using their own personal incentivization system basekit, and thus it would be burdensome. But I do want to encourage people to make risky plays, and get risky payouts. Playstyles and all that.
So should I, you think, consider Slugging nothing but a risky tactic that should not be encouraged or discouraged?
I do recognize you don't agree with my presented topic regarding slugging being superior, and I won't argue it overmuch, I'm just gathering the data at this point.0 -
As I posted to Jesterkind: Given what you've said, do you think slugging is more or less legitimate as a result of the inherent risks?
As you pointed out a slug build is effective, but I'd argue it's only effective because it's not meta. Meta survivor builds don't tend to include anti-slugging. If Meta survivor builds did include anti-slugging, I suspect we'd see less slugging and more objective oriented slowdowns. Wouldn't this just make slugging vs. anti slugging be another potential meta choice, just as gen slow-down vs gen speed meta was a meta?
If both are simply different meta's, do you think we should be encouraging and adjusting them or just letting them take darwins course?
Legitimately asking, I'm curious as to your opinion.0 -
It depends on where the risk comes from.
If survivors had basekit tools to punish slugging with, even if they required some skill and knowledge to use, then it being a high risk/high reward option would be appropriate.
Right now though, the risk comes from whether or not the survivors brought anti-slugging tools, not how well they use what the game gives them by default. It's the worst of both worlds- as killer the risk breaking away from your favour has nothing to do with your gameplay, but as survivor you're just kinda screwed if you face a killer dedicated to slugging when you didn't prepare for it at the loadout screen.
That's another reason I liked the 9.3 PTB solution, it let you try for aggressive slugging but there was risk you wouldn't be able to down survivors fast enough to avoid the self pickup.
Though again, I think slugging's primary position within the game should be as a situational answer to certain situations, like sabotaging or survivors lurking for pallet/flashlight saves. It'd be fine to have a riskier option with it, though.
3 -
Maybe with iri flesh and beast marks plus that singularities slugging perk he could win in one go but that all depends on survivors you face and how cocky and careless they get.
Some survivors have that bubba sydrom where they dont care how hard he will camp them or tunnel then or hump them on the floor they just love bubba and getting his attention, but others may not like it and play safe with clear mind so they dont fall for it.
Best use where people mostly throw is hook near highly progressed gen with killer that can injure fast or has mobility that helps him in chase that place is like magnet for survivors so they might let their guard down in hope you leave that place as killer but this isnt always the case.
0 -
Im just saying that because I've done plenty of Basement Bubba games where I go to the Basement immediately to camp a chest...not even a gen. I'll end up with the entire team down there to check it out. They COULD escape... exit is powered... but that chest is too damn alluring, lol.
1 -
As you pointed out a slug build is effective, but I'd argue it's only effective because it's not meta
I don't really agree with that. Even if the survivors had a good idea they might face it, it's still effective against most players, especially mid-skill parties and soloers. I've been in matches where people have had anti-slug perks and the end result is the slugging just going on longer. I've also gone up against teams running anti-slug and sabo and I still win most of the time, even with them doing quick recoveries with WGLF, Soul Guard, and MfT. These perks just prolong the inevitable if the killer isn't a baby or bad. If a team is focusing solely on getting up from slugs they aren't doing gens, and they will lose eventually. Something being meta also doesn't mean people will counter properly. Pain res DMS is meta. Every time I play I see someone not let go of a gen before a hook.
Wouldn't this just make slugging vs. anti slugging be another potential meta choice, just as gen slow-down vs gen speed meta was a meta?
The difference is an anti-slug meta is solely in response to the actions and builds of one side. Survivors dont bring chase builds or gen builds with the idea of countering the other players builds, they bring them to be efficient at a task. The "anti" in anti-slug is the issue. It's purely reactive to the other player.
You're also talking about gen speedup vs gen slowdown as though they're even. I don't think it's an exaggeration to say half of killers run anti-gen builds, but half of survivors don't run speedup.
If slugging was to be "legitimized" then basekit anti-slug would be needed. As it is now, the risk is minimal because they can't pick themselves up. If a slug could stand up after 45s or something, that would make lengthy slugging much less valuable. I, again, don't think you should have to incentivize normal gameplay, you should deincentivize unpleasant and unliked gameplay instead.
You bring up talking about this without emotion and you're not the first, but you can't cut it out with a scalpel. If you look at a high-emotion thing like pvp gaming from a clinical view, you end up with a game thats perfect on paper—and a miserable product no one wants to play in reality.
My ER as survivor for the last 30 days is 54.36%. That's a pretty above average number, and I don't abandon, so it's genuine. Am I having fun with the role? No, not really. I've been dealing with a lot of tunneling of teammates and a lot of slugging lately, and I'm often the only escape, solely because my current build makes me more slippery. Meanwhile, my 30 day KR is 67.27%. Not as good as the survivor one, and it's been declining lately, but I'm having more fun as killer because I'm not at the mercy of anyone's whims or cruelties. Winning isn't what everyone wants. It's how things feel that matters to many, if not most. So if you go against people who want to win at all costs and don't care if they make you feel bad in the process, that doesn't encourage you to engage. You have the odd person here and there that says they like being tunneled because it's "engaging" (I don't really trust these people but that's a different matter) but you'll never see anyone saying they love being slugged. It's utterly unfun for four out of five people in the match.
My opinon is that slugging was never meant to be as strong as it was and it just wasn't factored in, and then grew into something that's know hard to take away. It even says on the loading screen that the killer's primary objective is to hook survivors. When I first started playing this game as killer, it never once occured to me to leave someone on he ground on purpose. I still vividly recall my puzzlement when I first started playing survivor and it kept happening to me. As far as I'm concerned, egerious, intentional slugging should be punished in some way. I've suggested for a while that a good option is for survivors to be able to start manually speeding up their beeldout timers after a certain point. Bleedouts already don't count as kills on the killer's personal stats. That should be made more clear on the scoreboard as well, and with BP deductions.
0 -
The problem with that Bloodlust thing in 9.3 PTB was that it didn't last long enough to be of any use to many of the killer roster that don't have the mobility of Nurse and Blight, and even those that could make use if it couldn't because it was also deactivated if you used your power… So it ended up doing nothing at all.
0 -
It was a few small tweaks away from functioning, the bigger problem was how handhold-y it was.
All it needed to work was to be Bloodlust 3 instead of Bloodlust 1, and for a handful of killers to have their Bloodlust interactions tweaked.
It doesn't need to do much because the base reward for hooking is already good. It's just an encouragement to engage with that system.
0 -
I think you're right in several ways, particularly regarding keeping emotion out of it. Though I try, I am no less flawed than anyone else in that regard but it is an endeavor. The only points you present I personally disagree with are on the meta questions extrapolation so I won't dig in to it at risk of sounding like I'm being antagonistic.
That being said, thank you, I appreciate you sharing your perspective. I particularly find the last paragraph interesting. While I'm not overly concerned on the initial point of whether it was intended or not, I am fascinated by the rest. I do think slugging was entirely unintentional initially, but it seems like the more people talk the more I am hearing "Punish it." Which was never the point of the thread, nor honestly one I am surprised to see. Partially because of the emotional responses you pointed out. I am not against the idea of punishing slugging, but as I said above, since BHVR has not done so then I am assuming it is either not in alignment or too difficult to implement. Thus, I take to honey instead.
Ultimately any actual actionable take-away and official stance from BHVR such as making it a rule to not slug and it will be considered bannable, by example, would be sufficient to end the conversation entirely.0 -
It still didn't last long enough to be of use to any killer that would actually be able to make much use of it, and even they couldn't because their mobility is in their power (and it was even nerfed on them before they used their power that canceled it…) Hand-holdy IMO would be if it actually worked… but it didn't. It was completely worthless unless you were going after the person who tried and failed to get flashlight save.
-1 -
There is meta build since 2017 and it follows dead hard, ds, unbreakable, plus other very good perk like before their nerf it was adrenalin, hope or now there can be shoulder the burden, still resilience or deliverence. Build like this has antislug potencial because slugging is only working against teams that dont have tools to deal with it and coordination like trying 4man slug sabbo squad where two people minimaly have antislug perks is mission impossible, unbreakable is perk that even when if one survivor has it can totaly shift the outcome of the game and that perk does this since bill got into fog.
0 -
I dont denny this can happen but I would say its more about survivors personality than this being legit strat like if you go against people that arent careless and dont throw their life because bubba guards his chest or their buddy in basement than you wont get with bubba more than 1-2 kills depending on their skill and gen efficiency.
Some teams even throw up because one guys is idle after unhook and they throw the game because of it (because he either had brown code and had to run or he is trying to go next), I had games like this lately to but I wouldnt say they are consistent to get because even when they did a little still I think it would be 2-3 kills max for me if they would play serius due to gen speed like against good team that has gen efficiency they can do 3 gens in 120 seconds and thats like two hooks for the killer if they dont drop in 20 seconds of chase.
0 -
I ran tests on this last night (Still not much of a fan of slugging, all the same) and found this to be erroneous. It's anecdotal admittedly but the build I used didn't much care about unbreakable. I regularly saw it and regularly ignored it entirely as it only triggers one time. I regularly had to down a survivor around six times each on average.
As a result of slugging however I bypassed on average 25% of total survivor perks in the games as no hook states didn't trigger their ability to use said perk. The trade off was acceptable. Dead hard couldn't work as no hook states triggered, and deliverence obviously won't do much. Unbreakable let a person get up a single time, but I just downed them again and got an extra surge trigger out of the deal.
I would say the build presented isn't really an anti-slug meta build, it's a meta build that has a two perks that benefit from facing a slugger. But dead hard and DS won't work at all due to no hook states. This only makes it more logical a choice then to slug if DS and DH are both in the meta, wouldn't it?
For the record in the ten matches I played slugging build on, it was actually more fun to player Killer as I got to skip the stress of hooking, flashlights, flashbangs, DS, hook spread, etc etc and just focus on the reason I load the game : Chasing and downing. Granted that also came with the counterpoint of feeling bad for the people I'm consistently downing. It was an … awkward, experience. On one hand the game felt legitimately more enjoyable to play, on the other the process itself felt grimey.1 -
Who did you used for these 10 games?
I didnt test it that much but from all the time I played I know its not that bad, people are wondering why sometimes slugging is more used and in reality its because just as you said there are few perks per lobby (mostly one on one to few survivors) to deal with slugging than against hooking like dead hard, ds. Same with tunneling if you limit as killer the amonth of preasure to one or two survivors your time to deal with all these perks and stress is way smaller and your objective effectiveness raises compare to regular game, thats because more perks to help survivors against killer hooking them or giving them strong effect after dealing with hooks like DH or deliverence are more used and the time you spend to hook more survivors the more time of living each survivor gets and this gets you as killer on gens.
0 -
I ran 5 rounds with Pig, before I decided that was likely a little contaminating of the experiment given her traps further distracting survivor efforts. I then switched to a killer I never played before, Knight. I know now that Knight is good at slugging, and will be running further tests to try correcting for it.
That being said, yeah it was surprisingly easy. One match had 2 surv escapes, another had one escape. The other eight were 4K's (or effectively 4K, as I did let a sable go in one round as I felt bad for her.)1 -
I get pig can cause some damage when she placed head traps and they did some gen into it but knight is interesting choice personaly I dont think he is that reliable because his guards arent hard to shake off especialy when you are chased just by guard like banner spawns pretty fast except jailer but even he can be easily beaten because of how slow he is.
Another thing is that guards go around droped pallets and if you go to window and touch it and run away the guard does the same which is bug made into feature so knight is super dependent on how experienced survivors are but he can stall few of them at one time and his guards deffinitely work better with slugs than with hooks where if chased survivor touchs the hooked one guard gets lost.
0 -
Concurred. His kit (particularly in my new-to-him-hands) is a bit clunky and not exactly custom built to the test, but it did seem to work out. One of the matches did see a bullysquad of P100 so I assumed the MMR wasn't toasted, but I have to assume otherwise as I did rather well against them and they tried multiple hook spreads. I redacted names (not trying to flame people here) but attached the EG on that one here.
In a weird way it kind of highlights perk spread. This set (the pasted set) are clearly trying for some kind of gen rush build that, frankly, confuses me a bit. But that being said they still got caught out. I do think Knight is unreliable as I struggled a bit, but once I got a rhythm down on him and started using his guards as effectively free pressure rather than dependable tools, everything fell into place on its own.
1
