http://dbd.game/killswitch
How to balance nurse.
Haven't seen her for a while but had 3 nurse games in the last 2 days and been unpleasantly reminded how absolutely cracked and unpleasant to go against she is. Got me thinking, she's universally considered one of the S tier killers, probably the best and easiest to get good with. Her S tier brother blight is recieving a pretty major nerf in the near future, and I think she needs looking at as well.
How to do it without absolutely gutting her? You can't really change her blink much without ruining it, and a full rework would just turn her into a totally different killer. So. Give her the xeno/wesker/nemesis/singularity treatment. Add a type of tool that spawns in the trial for her games that allows you to counter her power or supress it briefly.
The issue with her is that she has no counterplay, you can try and mindgame her a little but against a good nurse that chase is going to end mucho quickly. So make something that allows survivors to get a bit of decent chase time against her to give people half a chance to do gens.
Few different themed ideas:
An aoe that supresses her power similar to the emp for singularity, (could be some sort of charm or like a photo of her husband) could also be placable like xenos turrets as a one shot counter that fizzles after and has to be replaced.
An adrenaline syringe that can be used for speed bursts, maybe with 2/3 uses and a 20/30 second cool down in between. It's medically themed and adds an element of skill to countering her, making nurses consider speed bursts into planning blinks.
Some kind of stealth tool to allow you to temporarily hide from her, like turn invisible for 2/3 seconds, again with multiple uses and a sizable cooldown.
Fight fire with fire, a charm or artifact that allows the survivor to briefly copy nurses power and blink to avoid her. Probably a one shot.
Bring back lightburn: perhaps add guaranteed torch spawns or a specialised item that allows survs to hinder nurse during a blink, requires good timing and skill.
Would be interested to hear people's thoughts. I certainly don't want to see nurse gutted and nerfed into the ground. But it would be nice to have a bit of counterplay against her and not simply hope the nurse player is bad.
Comments
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Just no, idk how many times survivors want killers nerfed but all thats going to do is alienate one side while the other is constantly getting buffed.
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- Remove her post-blink lunge.
- Reduce her blink range in chase.
- Limit her blink through walls.
- Gut basically all addons with blink range, blink addition and time between blinks.
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IMO the Lunge Add On and the Mangled Add On should be removed. In general, there is 0 need for Nurse to even have strong Add Ons like this. (The Mangled Add On is baffling anyways, removing the synergy with Sloppy Butcher to free a Perk Slot, just to give her an Add On which does the same was not really a smart move.)
Movement Speed should be reduced so that she has to rely more on Blinks to hunt down Survivors. She is slower than Survivors, but missing a Blink is still not really punishing since she will not lose much distance while she recharges. To compensate for that, her recharge speed can be buffed so that she can use her power to traverse the map in the same way she does now.
Adding back the Double Stun when she gets stunned by a Pallet would also be a nice thing. Having her in fatique and stunned gave actual value for Pallets, which are in general pretty useless against her. Stunning her is difficult enough, so getting value out of it would be great.
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She already got nerfed it just people can't loop her the same way you do others.
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There isnt much to change she will either be very strong or very bad so its more of rework thing than anything else.
We are speaking here about killer who is 4% slower than survivors base running speed and must rely on her power only thats why its not so simple compare to blight or any other killer because she cant do anything without her power not even chase survivor which outrun her.
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She got locked out of a couple of perks by making her blink strikes not count as basic hits. That's not much. And looping a good nurse is basically impossible, any aura reads and a bit of m&k magic and chased last seconds.
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Her power is why she's broken. Anyone going for shift w and m1 hits with nurse is either playing her wrong or capitalising on survivors making howling misplays.
Her power nullifies all the tools survs usually use in chase, pallets, vaults, flashlights are useless. Even breaking LoS doesn't work well with her. Particularly if she's being used with an aura read build. This is why I'm suggesting we add tools that allow survivors to temporarily counter or hinder her power. Otherwise the only counter to her is hiding to avoid chase or the unreliable 50/50 of trying to mind game her.
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I don't often advocate for killer nerfs, individual or across the board. I'm defo not a tribal survivor main. I only do it when a killer is objectively busted. Like nurse.
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Going hold W and breaking line of sight is her only real counter so dont just drown yourself here, even when she ignoners objects almost all of them she still gets held of when survivor is holding W worst thing is staing at loop where she can blink through.
She is very special as playable character because of her stats and power, she cant be played as 155 or 110% speed killer so her power must cover everything logicaly when she cant catch survivors by just holding W as other killers and is actualy loosing chase if she doesnt use her power.
She cant be nerfed much she is pretty fragile with her execution so she is more likely for rework than some hard nerfs some folk here are suggesting.
Edit:::::.
ahh aura perks on nurse, well spirit is only killer who doesnt or cant use them when using her power which should nurse have some time ago and they didnt even needed to make her blink hits special attacks because the aura part was in my oppinion greater issue than exposed effect form perks just look at which perks get nerfed because of it was it starstruck or was it weskers awearness perk??
But thing is you cant blind her compleatly when she uses m2 because it would kill majority of aura perks on her and going against nurse with full endgame/gen deffence isnt much better than full aura nurse but some kind of blind like spirit or dracula in bat form she should have and I think she would be kinda worthy of being s-tier because she would be played just through pure skill.
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i just went against a nurse earlier today and it was a 4 man out with a bot since i was just ran around loops with los blockers and she didn't know how much charge it took to hit me
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-rework lunge addon
-make her unable to see survivor's aura while charging blink
-fix the issue you can't stun her during her fatigue-2 -
Yet another person complaining about the nurse, but who won’t show us any videos of their matches against her. Because, of course, she’s the problem—there’s no way the other side could be at fault too...
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"She cant be nerfed much she is pretty fragile with her execution"
This was the whole point of my original post. Yes nerfing her power would absolutely gut her. This is why I was suggesting that survivors are given tools to allow counterplay. There is a major difference. Tbh with this her move speed could afford to be bumped to 4.4 to allow her to m1 while her power is disabled or whatever. Then she is in a similar position to xenomorph. Who has to m1 when his tail shot is disabled by flame turrets. It wouldn't ruin nurse because even if you used the exact same mechanics as xenopmorph she'd still be stronger because her power's better.
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So you had a bad nurse player.
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Nobody asked me to. I can easily take clips during my next nurse match. I know the theoretical counter play. Hold w and break LoS, move unpredictably. But that doesn't work reliably against a good nurse. I'd love to hear how she's balanced being far and away the top S tier killer in the game with a lower skill curve than blight. But from your pfp I'd imagine I'm dealing with a nurse main here so I'd imagine the bias is pretty strong.
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Give her the xeno/wesker/nemesis/singularity treatment. Add a type of tool that spawns in the trial for her games that allows you to counter her power or supress it briefly.Huh.
That's a pretty interesting idea. If done effectively other adjustments could be made (such as her speed) so she falls more in line with the norms.
Going through what you suggested.
An aoe that supresses her power similar to the emp for singularity, (could be some sort of charm or like a photo of her husband) could also be placable like xenos turrets as a one shot counter that fizzles after and has to be replaced.Yeah, that would be neat. Call it something like Manifestation, she gains normal movement but loses the blink.
An adrenaline syringe that can be used for speed bursts, maybe with 2/3 uses and a 20/30 second cool down in between. It's medically themed and adds an element of skill to countering her, making nurses consider speed bursts into planning blinks.I don't think that one works. I get the possibility that you have gameplay were each side is trying to bait out the other, but I think it mostly just results in speeding away from the Nurse.
Some kind of stealth tool to allow you to temporarily hide from her, like turn invisible for 2/3 seconds, again with multiple uses and a sizable cooldown.Not sure how that would work. Is it like Dracula where when she is holding her power the survivor disappears and she has to guess?
Fight fire with fire, a charm or artifact that allows the survivor to briefly copy nurses power and blink to avoid her. Probably a one shot.I don't think there's any chance of that happening, but its very funny to imagine.
Bring back lightburn: perhaps add guaranteed torch spawns or a specialised item that allows survs to hinder nurse during a blink, requires good timing and skill.That's a pretty straightforward one, I like it, we just return to a mechanic that worked without having to rely on creating something new.
For simplicity - special light objects. For more interesting gameplay that's something of a partial rework, dropables that can interfere with her blink. Those also seems to be the most 'you can others, not just yourself', which I think makes for a more interesting design.
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I love going against a Nurse. Trying to predict what she's going to do with her blinks and doing a counter-play to it is so much fun. Then having the player know how you play so then switching it up again to counter what they think I will do. I love it. Another reason why I love going against Bubba too. A lot of mind game at loops and trying to time the pallet stun during his sweep. I would much rather have a fun mind game chase than sitting on a gen waiting to press spacebar.
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Nice to see someone who actually read the post in detail lol. Yh tbh out of the ideas i came up with the first one is probably the most viable since it'd make her work like xeno and just help add a little time to her chases. Perhaps bump her to 4.4 at the same time so she isn't completely useless when her power is suppressed.
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The most significant nerfs she could receive that wouldn't completely ruin her (or necessitate a total rework from the ground up that will never happen) would be to prevent her from seeing auras while charging or using her Blink, and a rework to her Undetectable and lunge distance addons to less oppressive effects. If necessary they could also change some of her less popular addons so there's more reason to use them over the most popular ones.
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Xeno isnt good exsample of the killer mainly because of how favorite he is just shows his execution isnt good the turrets are pain to deal with if you consider some item based counterplay then larry or vecna are better as exsamples here. Xeno is just pain to play as especialy when two turrets can be placed super close or on loop like shack making it god tier loop where he must get turrets and not loose power or he is powerless killer.
Thats more of rework thing you meaning which is what Im saying, she is just for rework not for nerfs which would gut her becuase unlike any other killer she is 100% depending on her power to get any value compare to rest of killers.
The slower the killer is the more better power he needs to aid him in chase to not suck thats just it.
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Say you didn't read my post without saying you didn't read my post. I'm not saying make her the same as xeno (I'm using it as an example, a parallel), I'm not saying nerf her power or rework her. I'm saying give survivors a way to counter her, since she currently has no counter. You need to read it in detail before criticising the suggestions.
Having a counter would also give cause to bump her movement up to 4.4 so she doesn't have to rely totally on her power.
Post edited by HoodedWildKard on0 -
- Make pallet stuns actually consistent against her. Sometimes during a blink or the fatigue state, she just completely ignores them and it's pretty unfair considering how difficult she is to stun anyways.
- Lunge and Mangled add-ons need to go entirely. Her base power is too strong to warrant add-ons being that impactful.
- She needs some kind of caveat when it comes to aura-reading. I'd like to see one of the following tested or explored:
- Inability to see auras while charging a blink.
- Reduced duration of auras (think reverse Lethal Pursuer).
- Some kind of Item that provides temporary cover for the Survivors, like basekit Fog Vials or something.
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Look I read it but giving counterplay isnt easy because it will either suck for killer like it is for xeno or it was for prebuffed larry or it will do little.
She is more suited for rework and giving counterplay is rework in its way because you have to add something new which falls in rework category in this game just like tricksters rework onlything thats new is the style idicators and s-rank but he had many of these things before people just didnt knew it same with mayers rework only swicthing between modes and his strike are new thing but everything he had before.
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The devs are free to add a 4.4 not-through-walls-teleporting banshee who needs to disable metronomes so she can use her ability near those. Power to those who want that.
But keep the nurse the nurse.
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That's why i suggested that she get a base speed buff since she relies on her power so much. It just seems odd to me that so many other killers have built in ways to counter them, When nurse has arguably the most broken power in the game and no inbuilt way to counter it. Hence why she is sat in the top spot for killers and why so many people complain about playing against her
Lets compare her to xeno and nemesis since their powers do similar things. All 3 allow hits outside of the killer's normal melee reach within a small range.
A high wall totally stops nemesis and xeno from hitting, it does a little against nurse, she goes through the wall and can still hit if she is good or is using aura ready. On a short wall nemesis and xeno can hit over the wall but it's hard to do, survivor can duck to avoid the hit, against nurse a short wall means literally nothing, she can see the survivor, blink through and get an easy hit. Next pallets and vaults, survs can fake a pallet or vault against nemi/xeno, bait the attack and during the cooldown throw the pallet/jump the vault to make time. Nurse gets a second blink to readjust and addons that allow her a third reposition. Same applies on open ground, nemi and xeno get one shot to hit and if they miss they lose distance. Nurse gets a second chance to redjust and is almost guarenteed to get a hit in open ground unless the player is really bad. Even if she misses and gets fatigued, survs are usually still in blink range after.
Nurse's power wins out in every situation. And yet the weaker killers have built in drawbacks. nemesis has to infect survivors before he can damage them with the tentacle and there are a bunch of vaccines to cure the infection. Xeno has the turrets that survivors have to place to remove crawler mode briefly and make them have to m1 for damage. Nurse has no such in built counter AND her power is harder to avoid normally. The only disadvantage she has is a move speed slower than survivors, which doesn't mean much with her, because the makes up the distance easily by blinking through solid objects.
She is objectively broken and needs a way to counterplay her. The only way that can be done currently is by mindgaming, which is dreadfully unreliable, and against a good/aura reading nurse almost useless. I don't want to see her gutted or dropped to B/C tier. I just don't want to hear that blink at the start of the match and know that, unless the nurse is really bad, that I've already lost. She is a relic from very early in the game that hasn't been changed very much, her blink attacks no longer count as basic attacks, which isn't a huge debuff, just locks her put of a few perks. And she actually recieved a buff when bhvr removed the lightburn mechanic from her and wraith.
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I didn't say about removing her teleporting through walls. I'm asking for nurses identity to be ruined. I just want to have some way of counterplaying her that is semi reliable.
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An item that makes you faster than the killer on demand while being easy to use is too much. If you can just remove the killer's powers, she can't even close distance. This is a much different case to Xeno who is still a 115 killer. Likewise, giving every survivor sprintburst in a bottle isn't counterplay. Thats just letting survivors completely avoid chases by holding W since nurse once again... wouldn't be able to close distance.
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Yeah not in my OP but if they added the power suppression I'd expect a base speed boost to compensate for not being able to blink constantly.
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Ehh, it could work, but it would be a lot of work.
I have some ideas that seem simpler.
-No aura reading while blinking.
-Only her first blink has a lunge and we buff her to 110%, or make matchbox basekit, but with double the range.
She's currently op because her chase is the best in the game, her weakest point is her map pressure. So we nerf the chase, and buff her map mobility to compensate.
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- - Give her plaid funnel basekit
- - Let her see the aura of dropped pallets within 20 metres while charging a blink
- - Make her unable to blink through dropped pallets
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This is what I would want to see for her:
- Blindness status while charging blinks and while blinking (then gets removed when you go into fatigue). Given the Nurse's strength and that the only two main counters to Nurse are distance and breaking line of sight, breaking line of sight needs to remain a consistent form of counterplay against her. Auras are too disruptive to this in a way that no other killer has and there needs to be a limitation on this without having to nerf perks for other killers.
- Stuns reset blink charges to 0; recharging begins at the end of the stun
- Fatigue no longer grants immunity to stuns
- Addons:
- Fragile Wheeze (Mangled addon) reduced to 60 seconds to bring it into line with lower-end addons of this type (was 70 seconds)
- Bad Man's Last Breath (Undetectable addon) reduced to 20 seconds (was 25 seconds) and cooldown increased to 60 seconds (was 45 seconds). As is, this is just active a little too often especially for how strong this killer is
- Rework the following addons (for being too strong or unfair design): Heavy Panting (I know this just got nerfed but lunge increase for Nurse still shouldn't exist at all), Matchbox (4.4 speed fundamentally breaks the killer and is the worst possible version of her design-wise, even with only 1 blink), Torn Bookmark (3 blinks will never be balanced or fair regardless of whatever downside it has)
- Rework the following addons (for being useless/negative utility): White Nit Comb, Dull Bracelet
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I generally don't think you can balance current nurse cause of how her kit is designed she would need a total power rework.
But surprisingly a great suggestion I saw for balancing Nurse is she can't see Auras with charging blink kinda like when Spirit phases you can't see auras.
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Almost like Hyper mobility in games is always strong no matter what you do to it
BHVR learn nothing from other games0 -
That's why i suggested that she get a base speed buff since she relies on her power so much. It just seems odd to me that so many other killers have built in ways to counter them, When nurse has arguably the most broken power in the game and no inbuilt way to counter it. Hence why she is sat in the top spot for killers and why so many people complain about playing against herWell going through walls is broken on its own but there are two killers with simular thing henry and pyramidhead, they can hit people through walls with their projectile and still do you think the are Op or broken?
I dont and for nurse buffing base speed its logical no offence but if you take away or make weaker only thing she relys on then you must give jher something in exchange.
Lets compare her to xeno and nemesis since their powers do similar things. All 3 allow hits outside of the killer's normal melee reach within a small range.Not realy nurse after teleport/blink has normal lunge buddy, she only has longer lunge on second blink with certain addon but thats 10% now so not so compareable its like comparing pigs dash to billies in terms of mobility.
A
hi gh wall totally stops nemesis and xeno from hitting, it does a little against nurse, she goes through the wall and can still hit if she is good or is using aura ready. On a short wall nemesis and xeno can hit over the wall but it's hard to do, survivor can duck to avoid the hit, against nurse a short wall means literally nothing, she can see the survivor, blink through and get an easy hit. Next pallets and vaults, survs can fake a pallet or vault against nemi/xeno, bait the attack and during the cooldown throw the pallet/jump the vault to make time. Nurse gets a second blink to readjust and addons that allow her a third reposition. Same applies on open ground, nemi and xeno get one shot to hit and if they miss they lose distance. Nurse gets a second chance to redjust and is almost guarenteed to get a hit in open ground unless the player is really bad. Even if she misses and gets fatigued, survs are usually still in blink range after.High wall loops make nurse loose line of sight which is like half of her counter or main part of her counter plus holding distance but ofcourse it does very little when its just one normal wall that is super thin and she has two blinks.
Nurse's power wins out in every situation. And yet the weaker killers have built in drawbacks. nemesis has to infect survivors before he can damage them with the tentacle and there are a bunch of vaccines to cure the infection. Xeno has the turrets that survivors have to place to remove crawler mode briefly and make them have to m1 for damage. Nurse has no such in built counter AND her power is harder to avoid normally. The only disadvantage she has is a move speed slower than survivors, which doesn't mean much with her, because the makes up the distance easily by blinking through solid objects.Drawbacks or limitations how you call it, nurse has some too but her power is very strong and can power through it (especialy when its nurse player who is realy good) which other killers you mentioned cant.
She is objectively broken and needs a way to counterplay her. The only way that can be done currently is by mindgaming, which is dreadfully unreliable, and against a good/aura reading nurse almost useless. I don't want to see her gutted or dropped to B/C tier. I just don't want to hear that blink at the start of the match and know that, unless the nurse is really bad, that I've already lost. She is a relic from very early in the game that hasn't been changed very much, her blink attacks no longer count as basic attacks, which isn't a huge debuff, just locks her put of a few perks. And she actually recieved a buff when bhvr removed the lightburn mechanic from her and wraith.She is broken you know why????
She was created to fight one thing that maked old DBD super survivor sided ……. infinites, loops that were infinite to run and other killers (except trapper if trap was there in way) couldnt do a thing so devs answeard and gave us nurse to beat it, she was nerfed a lot but her core power is still very strong even when it kinda functions on same mentality as pyramidhead or henry she is still better then they are and has less drawbacks. Nurse in this setting needs logicaly best power because she cant get survivors otherwise due to her speed being slower than survivors running speed so she is for rework Idk how but somehow they could make her 110% speed and still keep her power in some way but with seeing how reworks go meant in speed it will take at best two years I guess because now we have to witness trappers and skullmerchants reworks and merchants rework is on the menu for very long time so Idk whne it will be time for nurses.
I would end it here that we objectively agree.
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maybe we should do something special and disable auras on nurse. she has a bag over her head anyway
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