The Amanda's Letter add-on for The Pig has been Kill Switched due to an issue with incorrect RBT count.
http://dbd.game/killswitch
Knight should not exist
I've played against him and always thought it's stupid that you get chased by NPCs while the killer can flank you.
So I decided to unlock him and try him because it's not fair to judge a killer without playing him.
And wow. How is this a killer?
So I have 3 separate ghosts, and they all have separate cooldowns?
But that's not all, you can just make a ghost patrol a hooked survivor. And then you can just switch to the next ghost and patrol the hook some more, then switch to the next ghost, etc…
So you literally can infinitely use ghosts that hook camp for you. What were they thinking when they designed this?
Coming into it before even trying him, I already thought it felt stupid to be chased by NPCs. But after trying him out, it's even worse than I thought. IMO, this killer shouldn't exist in DBD.
Comments
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I know this forum loves just downvoting posts that complain about features,
but can somebody make any good counter arguments outlining why you disagree, and explain why you think Knight is well-designed?
Because to me, it just seems like a poorly designed killer that can be easily abused when playing as him.-2 -
Hey there,
I will try to explain this to you.
While Knight seems to be an unfair Killer with his "flanking" BHVR nerfed this playstyle a while ago. When Knight is to close to his guard the guard will disappear in half the time meaning that a chase is quiet useless.
When the guard is chasing you alone you need to tap windows so that the guard is stuck and the knight is chasing someone else as useless M1 Killer.
The camping with guards is not as strong as it seems. If you go for the unhook the guard will instantly drop the chase on you keeping this tactic useless it is only another notification that the unhook is happening which the knight would get anyway.
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Knight is overwhelming for inexperienced survivors, but he's not effective in camp or chase against people that understand somehwat how he works. If you think about where you are running to and react to the Knight's animations, you can avoid being pincered by leaving the loop or just not getting cornered in the first place. And his NPCs will time out too quickly to apply pressure on a 2nd loop after following you there, if the Knight is following you too.
You can unhook safely, guard or not, and if you turn a couple of corners, you can W-key out of a chase.
The Knight excels at applying pressure to people that don't understand how he works.
He's still decent against good players, but he's nowhere near braindead and certainly not OP.3 -
Counter is hard basicaly all depends is whatguard is chasing you and if knight is there coming for you too.
Counters: pathing- if he uses power he can hear you but cant see scratch marks only blood pools so if he is trying to cut you off with guard you can change your path and doge it, its not easiest thing from his conters but it can work very well same as when you mind game nurse with doublebacking.
Banner- every guard has banner and different time before it spawns the longest is jeilor so if he is not chasing you or even when he is you can get banner when its ready and you get big haste and endurance for few seconds plus you dissable the guard whi is chasing you.
Hooked survivor- if theres hooked survivor and guard chases you just even when you begin the unhook action and let it go the guard wont chase you and drops chase.
The faster/ shorter chase time when guard is close to knight- basicaly theres circle around guard who is chasing you and if knight enters that circle the timer of guard is 3 times faster so like if assasin chases survivor for 12 seconds if knight is in that circle all time the assasin will chase you for 4 seconds this is exsample.
Looping- when you drop pallet knights guard goes around it so loops like shack will save you just with this simple thing
Bug into feature- when you run up to window vault and touch it but dont vault it and run away the guard does some move pattern he comes up to the window and touches it and then runs after you, this works well against slower guards like carnifex and jeilor.
If these things wont help you then Idk what will change your nea ways because these are very simple yet stupid counters which show how easy it is to loop knight or his guard or both of them especialy on safer loops like shack.
Final tip dont get cornered against knight gd.
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I read that they disabled "tapping" vaults. Like there was a patch that made it so you couldn't run up to windows to make the ghosts run up to them. Did they change it back to work again?
I understand that there are theoretical counters to him, but I still stand by my claim that his abilities are extremely abusable.
I am just playing knight for the first time. 3 matches so far, have made the survivors give up every match so far.
My point here being that if I can do this as a brand new Knight player, clearly something is wrong here.
(screenshot shows the bots escaping because I also abandoned after I was the only player left)
Edit:I should also point out that the players didn't use the abandon feature to leave - they chose to take a matchmaking penalty in order to leave just to get out of there, both of them healthy with 1 generator left.
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Knight is not overpowered, but he's a difficult mix of rare so survivors have limited scope to practise against/understand him and largely regarded as unfun. Taking a chase from an NPC is not fun, as there's no mindgame nor anything unpredictable to react to. Getting caught out with a pincer definitely feels cheap if you're not experienced enough to understand what led you to getting caught out like that. I notice a lot of abandons against him too, at a higher rate than I see Blight DCs (pre-nerf) and I could hardly place him in the same league in terms of power.
Sadly this is a self-fulfilling prophecy. People abandon vs Knight because he's not all that fun, meaning they don't learn how to cope with him, meaning they're only going to continue finding him unfun and abandoning.0 -
I haven't said he's overpowered.
I'm calling him poorly designed, stupid, and abusable (after playing as him).
But mainly, no fun for survivors to go against.
And I don't think it's due to a lack of understanding - even when understanding how he works, it's just not fun to be chased by NPC ghosts.-4 -
Maybe I'm wrong, but abusable implies that there are things you can do with Knight that ensure no counterplay, that don't come as a result of a mistake on your opponent's part. Perhaps I shouldn't call that overpowered, but in my mind these things are in line. I think, other than somewhat rare map situations, it's largely untrue that he's abusable.
He can't proxy hooks with his guards as you just unhook in their face.
He can't pincer you unless you put yourself in a position to be pincered, and even then you've got a decent shot of just running out of the loop as soon as he takes a knee.
The thing I would agree with is he's not particularly stimulating to go against, even when you know what to do.1 -
Almost everything is abuseable at some point, knight is noob stomper but against sessoned experienced survivors he is just m1 killer who can break fast pallets if you fall for his mind game and drop against him having ready carnifex and pulls one guy into chase with guard who is just faster zombie at this point, I mentined above like almost all of his counters which can be combined and will make you whoop the floor with him so he isnt realy busted he just stomps unexperienced survivors but thats only thing he is good at because he cant do anything other than harrass people with guards but has no good chase tool only carnifex fast break but thats easy to counter too you will just slow near pallet and he will jump into his power and you will just continue to run and greed till he wont do it. He has no lethality or mobility just low b to c-tier killer depending who is against him.
Simple killer who realy doesnt hold any strong power compare to his prerework version that was atleast god in pincer tactic but this version has feature against it and obly with jeilor he getslike 12 seconds for pulling pincer tactic.0 -
I don't know why you're assuming "no counter play" from the word "abusable".
Abusable just means that something can be abused, and in gaming terminology means used in unintended ways, often to gain an advantage.
Like, for instance, how you're supposed to be able to unhook despite being chased by ghosts.
But from my experience trying to hook camp with the ghosts, it was very effective because most of the times the ghosts would start the chase while being between the hook and the other survivor, so unless the survivor ran away from the hook, the ghost would hit them.
I don't think behavior intends us to effectively hook camp with the ghosts, hence it's one example of what I mean by "abusable".
Worst of all is if the survivor gets the basement - I just placed a ghost patrolling up and down the stairs.
And it's infinite, because the ghosts have separate cooldowns - another example of "abusable". You can abuse the fact that there's no down-time of the ghosts, which I found especially effective when basement camping.
But of course, doing all this means that the survivors could just be doing gens elsewhere. But most of the times people are altruistic and try to prevent the camping, but there wasn't a single match where they didn't go into the basement without getting injured by a ghost, and then I could just go down and finish the job.
Hopefully this clarifies what I mean by his abilities being "abusable"-1 -
Fun fact!
Even if a guard is chasing a survivor, unhooking automatically ends the hunt and the guard vanishes.
There are anticamp measures
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If survivors who is hunted by a guard starts an unhook someone the guard despawns right away. So only reason your tactic work was because those people who you played against did not know about that.
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That's fair, but in all honesty I wouldn't consider these situations abusable. Slotting a summon between a survivor going for the unhook and the hook itself is not going to be consistent if you are applying pressure elsewhere, so essentially you are proxy camping by doing that. The survivor then only needs to loop once and return to the hook, starting the animation and killing the chase. Inexperienced survivors will get trashed by this, experienced ones will not. Perhaps this is not intended in the sense that BHVR sat down at a round table and discussed zoning hook with a well-placed summon, but the situation you described absolutely is the power working as intended.
Also, if there's really no way to start the unhook, you can just eat the injury. The knight will not be able to capitalise on that fully without being nearby, which would be the same restriction as any killer. I think there are cases where this is applying pressure to a good effect, but I still don't think it's abuse in the way you describe or even I interpret.
Same with the basement example. Most killers in the game can proxy basement extremely effectively. Getting hooked in basement is a punishment and it's meant to be strong. Capitalising on damage from ghost NPCs requires the Knight to be close by anyway, so unless people are trying to facetank a ghost while injured, the impact is is not dissimilar to most other killers with an ability sticking close by. You can also just coordinate, have someone take the summon chase away from basement, then have someone else take the unhook. Rare in soloQ and with inexperienced survivors, sure, but there are definitely plays that can be made in this situation.
You are describing strong gamestates for the Knight, I'm not going to deny that, and I'm glad you've been crushing with him even if you don't like his design, but if we're talking in terms of power, the Knight is fine. The fun factor could use some work, but subjectively finding a particular killer unfun is not reason to remove them from the game.
EDIT: Also you can just time going down the stairs to when a Knight is summoning, even if you get seen and put into an NPC chase, by the time their initial animations are done you should be able to start the unhook and despawn them. Survivors getting zoned by this tactic are simply not familiar with the Knight. This is a problem with how DbD fails to convey mechanics, not the mechanics themselves.0 -
The reasons you have listed for him to be abusable are not dissimilar from things trapper, hag, skull merchant, and others can do.
"Can use power to remote defend the hook?" Check.
"Can use power to zone and corner?" Check.
"Unfun to be X?" Check, no one likes getting trapped, pinned, or locked in.
The knight is susceptible to looping, flashing, stunning, and particularly susceptible to surv's who pay attention. It's valid to not like the killer, but calling him abusable when he's not even A-tier is questionable. If you think this is abusable I hope you never see what I can do with Huntress or you'd be talking the forum into removing her from the game for poor design.
You picked up knight and pubstomped. That's what he does. Knight is one of those killers who is countered by knowledge and coordination more than solo-god loopers with practice, though those don't hurt . This is just the standard surv game from what I see. If they rarely see Knight (which they do) they don't practice his counterplay much and get destroyed easily.
If you think he's abusable and poorly designed to the point of being bad for DBD, which I presume is your grounds of logic for abusable→Shouldn't be in game, then take him into a custom lobby with a four-man who understands him. It will be deeply educational. There is a reason you don't see him in queues more often.
Whether by intent or byproduct this reads very much as a 'I don't understand his counterplay and therefor he is too strong' post. The growing epidemic of survivors calling something abusable or unbalanced when they aren't applying counter-play is wearing people thin.0 -
So maybe if you can overlook your lack of knowledge of this killer you can see their isn't a problem as people have already pointed
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Yeah everyone is saying this, but you have to get to the hook first.
Already mentioned this, but I tried using ghosts to camp the basement stairs - and survivors were injured on their way down before being able to unhook.0 -
Pubstomped?
if you look at my screenshot, those are not new players if you look at how far they have prestiged.
I play both sides so I get high MMR matches for both sides.-2
