The Amanda's Letter add-on for The Pig has been Kill Switched due to an issue with incorrect RBT count.
http://dbd.game/killswitch
Fast Track and perk activation requirements
Comments
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That's your choice to make to run the perk or not. If you find no value in it then don't use it. At some point the Dev's may increase the tokens for that one survivor. But the way that it was before was clearly a punishment to the killer for hooking in the first place. I believe the survivor side doesn't like to be slugged, so why promote it?
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Deadlock is 4x25 seconds, fast track is at max 18% of gen progress pernamently which is 16,2 seconds x4 which is less but its pernament progress meaning nothing will put it back and only thing that did that before and needed nerfs was BNP which gives now 10% so fast track on all survivors gives then all togeather 64,8 seconds of pernament progress on gen thats more then 66% of one gen and combining it with BNP each is 25,2 x4 which is 100,8 seconds pernament progress which is like 1 minute and 40,8 seconds so thats not small time and its pernament.
Bare in mind that deadlock doesnt effect all survivors just the ones that are on most progressed gen right after other gen was done but this pernament progress effects killer a lot especialy the more he hooks the worse his fates gets because of single perks.
I had teams like this where fast track and toolbox with BNP of each survivor was common thing and these games were one of fastest in my life around 5-6 minutes even when I played good without huge mistakes so it changes the game alot only cheaters made my games faster.
Not to mention deadlock bloks that gen but other perks cant damage it.
For record pain res causes 20% damage 4 times per unique hook, its 18 seconds of gen damage per stack and it makes the killer go out of his way and spread hooks so even when its very strong perk it actualy pushes killer to play more nice and healty to earn this perks rewards. But fast track gave survivors passively stacks when killer hooked someone which is against this healthy playstyle of spreading hooks everyone wants to have instead of tunnel vision and on top survivor doesnt get 18% of gen progress but 18% of pernament gen progress so its makes that gen take less time to do even when its regressed to 0%.
Healthy perk indeed.
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For me it's not what the perks do, but the double standard. Neither side should be punished for doing their objectives.
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Of course you're allowed to feel what you feel, but there's so much nuance lost here. "Punishment" is very vague.
Imo, as long as a perk has realistic counterplay I'm personally okay with it activating upon the other side completing part of their objective.
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How do we counter fire up or coup?
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Fire Up doesn't need any extra counterplay due to the opportunity cost of bringing the perk. It was pretty bad on its own pre 9.6.0 but now it's even worse because of diminishing returns if you try to stack it with something else.
If a killer has Coup stacks, they can't lunge without wasting a stack. Force them to lunge as best you can to waste their stacks.
This ain't rocket science. You're obviously just being obtuse to try to fit your black and white thinking onto nuanced situations.
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You're acting like FT wasn't situational though. It's not like someone gets hooked and a key gen just magically gained the tokens. You needed a skill check to appear, you needed to hit a great, you needed to have a chance to put them on a gen before they capped, and you had to put them on a gen worth using them on. Every single match I tried this perk in I had tokens leftover. It wasn't constant value.
But you're also being intentionally obtuse. The point is Coup and Fire Up get their value from survivors completing gens. There's no way to counter that accumulation. And just like a killer might miss their Coup lunge, a survivor might miss their great skill check.
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How many years did it take to get that minor feature added to the game compared to how fast Fast-track was changed?
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All those perks you mentioned do not speed up your progress to win the game, that's why they're fine.
???
Did they stealth rework all of them?
How does skipping hook stages not speed up the killer's progress? How does cutting search-time not speed up killer progress? How does shortening chase time not speed up killer progress?
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I think theres a fairer reason they probably could have gave. The one they did give was not consistent at all with how they operate with perks. The reason they coulda gave (since they alluded to it before) was its value in stacking. They've had this problem with any perk that like stacks with itself (48 meter kindred because 4 open handed) or stacked vigil. In this case it was perma progress so why not bring it if you have a 4 team to quadruple the perks effect for basically free? Each hook was 6% perma progress if I recall correctly so 4 hooks split would be 24 but quadruple that and ya had 96. (Since the person hooked doesnt obviously get a stack). 96 charges is over a gen of perma progress just out there on the gens they choose to put it on. And its not like this insane skill thing its still just hitting a great. And thats only hooking everyone once so you could double that if the killers 8 hooking. Which isn't a problem with the new one because it doesnt go to everyone when a person unhooks just that person that unhooks. Making it unable to stack up to x4.
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this guys just compared fast track to fire up LMAO I just can’t with the community of this game deadass
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I get your worry about coup because unless killer lunges super far and you arent sharp enough to see it nothing will tell you, but fire up? seriously that perk does very little unless its stacked with other chase perks and even then its not huge deal right now with dimishing return.
Fire up is strong on one gen left and at this point there isnt much time killer will use it and get value from it compare to brutal strenght or bamboozle.
There are far more bigger double standarts but something that pernamently removes time needed for survivors to do gen and its automiticaly given to them when killer player "nice" or how he should is more worse then deadlock or noed at this point.
For comparison we talk about effects like of the first ruin where even when you hit good skillchect you get 5% regression and when you hit great you got 0% of gen progress but even then this broken effect had two counters firts was gen taping and second was ability to remove the totem but fast track you cant counter it much only way is hardcore tunneling which is nowdays way harder then before do to many existing perks for antitunnel protection and ds being free so almost every survivor runs some perk to counter tunneling nowdays and as killer you have no other way to counter it no counter build in the perk like ruin has or noed have (even shows you totem aura nowdays up to 24 meters so unless killer hooks near that totem its very possible to break it and counter it). Thats fast track problem unless you play as turnament hungry competive jack and bite through untitunnel protection you have no other counter to it, you play normaly you are against yourself and I had last weeks many teams where fast track with BNP was used and it was very noticiable especialy on few gens left.
I dont denny deadlock isnt well desinged compare to grim or deadmans switch which reward killer for doinmg objective, but deadlocks effects arent so destructive for survivor side compare to 4 survviors running fast track, sometimes deadlock is even against killer because he doesnt effect when gen gets done that much, compare to old eruption if you remember.
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Fast Track speeds up a survivor's objective, and Fire Up speeds up a killer's objective. What exactly are you missing?
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It's ok at best and it's another case of "solo gets nerfed, swf not that much". A team can coordinate their saves, meanwhile as a solo player you won't get many unhooks in many matches or you have to play inefficient and run as fast as possible to the hook even though another surv is on its way.
I agree the perk was too strong especially when combined with other gen perks (i played it with stake out, hyperfocus and deja vu), but it's not really worth it anymore if you have other choices like 2nd chance perks, exhaustion or healing, which all contribute to the time factor of the match in a similar way (by increasing the time of the killers objective).
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I've won more than enough games with NOED, which is by far the biggest "plot twist" perk in the game. Survivor altruism has also won me lots of games during endgame, when i had basically no chance during the main game. I've won games where i had 2 or 3 hook stages before all gens were done. It's not a regular experience anymore since i despise these kinda perks that reward you for playing bad, but yeah.
Killer is the only role where this is possible. If a killer dominates a team and has his first kill at 5-4 gens left, it's almost impossible for the survs to still win the game if the killer is not deliberately throwing by chasing someone for 3 minutes. Survivors don't have these kinda perks that can turn around a lost game.
A Decisive Strike during a critical time in a good spot can prolong a chase for sure, which can win the survs the game, but it's not something that will make you win a game that is already lost.
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So fire up speeds up what?
- Increases the Action speeds for the following interactions by a stack-able 4/5/6 % per Token, up to a maximum of 20/25/30 %:
- Picking up and dropping Survivors.
- breaking pallets and walls and vaulting
- kicking gen
Survivors objective is to survive and do gens, killers is win chases and hook or kill survivors.
This perk works more in late game and its not winning chases that fast as fast track reduces gen time, fire up isnt even top tier perk which cant be said about fast track before its last nerf.
I see your logic but you comparing car vs bike here (in terms of exsample both speed up your travel speed from just walking or running), thats how accurate your exsample is here.
-2 - Increases the Action speeds for the following interactions by a stack-able 4/5/6 % per Token, up to a maximum of 20/25/30 %:
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My point originally was that neither side should be punished for doing their objectives. Fast Track and Fire Up both punish (or published in the case of Fast Track) the other side just for doing their objectives. I'm not and never have been a Fast Track user, so I don't care about the perk. It's the activation of the perk and the double standards that bother me.
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I don't think there's much of a double standard here, BHVR were pretty plainly speaking about Fast Track specifically and not making an overall point about perk design.
Their argument in that quote isn't "survivors shouldn't get benefits for their opponent progressing the objective", it's that "a passive activation condition was too strong for permanent gen progress". Personally I never really saw an issue with Fast Track at all, but that isn't really what's being evaluated here, just thought I'd mention it.
Your list of killer perks that activate on generator progress is definitely the start of a good comparison, but you also have to include the opposing side.
Sure, BHVR made the judgement call that the killer getting a hook wasn't an appropriate activation condition for Fast Track, but they've yet to make that decision for perks like Kindred, Desperate Measures, Do No Harm, Low Profile, and Self Preservation. These are just the perks that activate based on other people being hooked with no other action required on your part, to be clear, zooming out to just being based around the opponent's objective progression gives far more examples.Rather than it being fine when a perk is unpopular, I think the constructive takeaway from this regarding BHVR's mindset is that activating upon your teammates being hooked is seen as a variable that must inform other parts of the perk, and permanent objective progress was deemed to be too far over the line relative to the accessibility of that activation condition.
EG, the other perks are fine because they provide bonuses that aren't generator progress, meaning their contribution towards winning the game is more indirect and more up to skill/gameplay.Whether you agree with that or not, it's how I interpret BHVR's comments here.
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I shouldnt problem is that this narrative is there since 2016 and then it depends on what this perk does like fire up is mid perk at best and totaly dimished by dimishing returns feature, coup degre is lost pretty fast because killer must lunge almost every time to get hit with m1 and even when it gives higher chance to give killer hit it still isnt lasting long and 10 lunges thats like 5 downs if we exclude bodyblocks and endurence effects from perks so 5 downs isnt going to win the game for the killer especialy when he is getting 2 tokes per gen which is through all game.
Fast track interacts with gen speed which is problem since beginning in this game and on top its totaly inacive passive perk that gives gen progress but unremoveable one like BNP so you get more powerfull effect from single perk then from iri addon and if you combine these two then its lot of saved time for sngle gen pernamently. So its execution is way more problematic than any exsample you threw here.
I get your logic but perks like this came since 2016 and theres lot of them in the game today, perks that reward you passively without doing anything or loosing or doing just your objective, what more matters is what they do because at this point I dont think they all will change.
Fast track is (prenerfed) to killer like perk that regresses gen and adds time to it so its base time is more than 90 seconds after it was hit by this perk, or perk that reduces survivors time on hook by every down killer gets something stupid like this shouldnt exist for both sides things like prenerfed fast track or og ruin, og noed.
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I suspect that the only people still following this thread are irrationally angry at the Fast Track nerf and are downvoting completely rational takes. If there's no good faith discussion to be had then why is this thread even open?
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I'm using killer examples because this outcry was about a survivor perk, but yeah, those perks as well. And if the issue is being rewarded for your opponenent's successes—or just normal actions—then we need to look at 2/3 of this game's perks.
If the problem was that you could sit on a gen while your team traded hooks and instafinish halfway through, solely from the killer doing their objective, that's what the perk already did for years. If the problem was the permanent progress, it still has that. If the problem was stacking, they should have made it so the tokens only go to one randomly-chosen user. They should have just reverted it really, and not doing so just feels stubborn. To top it off, Mandy called this a side grade. It's not. It's a massive nerf. Not just to the last iteration, but to the one before.
And all of this happened over the course of a couple weeks. It used to take long (often excessively so) periods for things like this to happen. DH, MfT, stacking Vigil, Blight's recent nerfs. These had long runs. But there's been a trend in the last year or so of things getting instanuked, and the increasing loudness of CCs seems to be the sole reason. Every time they get mad about something en masse, you'll see people on social media parroting their exact words. The amplification of a handful of people's views has become insanely influential, and it seems like BHVR will decimate anything that gets any of that negative traction. Fog vials made it, what, less than 2 weeks? Pallet denstity got a similar treatment.The anti-tunnnel ptb was a few days, not enough time to gather data on so many large changes, many of which could have gone through with adjustments. But they walked it back completely. All of these share the same common thread of hyperbolic complaining on various platforms.
So my issue isn't that it happened, it's the real reasons it happened.
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It'd be nice if they were at least honest about it instead of this flagrant gaslighting about perk design. They're pissy because they PERCEIVE that it could be a usable survivor perk. That's it. That's all. That's always all that it is. And now that it's gutted, every one of those complaints has evaporated despite none of those being what was changed. They're no longer issues. Because it was never about those things. It was never about it 'punishing' killers for hooks. For 'promoting' slugging and tunnelling. Just dishonest asshattery looking for any excuse, and BHVR is more than happy to lend a sympathetic ear to and validate the same toxic cadre over and over.
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The new feature of showing perks is hardly this huge “buff” people think it is. Not saying you called it a buff, but that’s the general consensus I’m seeing.
Here’s the thing: players with experience can usually work out other survivor perks by process of elimination. Also, you’re already aware of other survivor perks if they directly impact you (We’ll Make It and Empathetic Connection come to mind as you see the little blue icon to tell you the perk is in effect). Same goes for Boon perks.
Seeing other solo-queue players load out in the lobby would be cracked as you could bring perks to synergize with one another. For example, you see someone bring COH, you could bring healing perks. But… as that’s not the case, I don’t think this new feature is really a big deal.
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I see your logic but you comparing car vs bike here (in terms of exsample both speed up your travel speed from just walking or running), thats how accurate your exsample is here.Except if someone said 'no one should ever travel faster than their own feet can carry them' as an argument to ban cars, and someone asked 'what about bikes?' and the first person said bikes were fine, but they kept using the original reasoning, its hypocritical.
The game is filled with examples of one side getting stronger when the other side does well. Despite this getting called out not just in this thread, but many threads, people opposed to old Fast Track continue to use it as their argument ( @TamaraLatte is an exception in being consistent on both sides).
People have tried to shortcut the more difficult argument of perk strength with this absolute principle that they are selectively applying. Unfortunately, as @cogsturning points out, BHVR has pursued the same line of reasoning.
Just for the record - I'm fine with the idea that Fast Track might have been too strong and needed changed, I think the permanent nature of the gen progress was mostly a non-issue, and I think perks that activate upon the other side advancing their objective are not just fine, I think many of them are healthier for the game than the alternative of win more perks.
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