The Amanda's Letter add-on for The Pig has been Kill Switched due to an issue with incorrect RBT count.
http://dbd.game/killswitch
The Slugging Meta
I want to start this post off by saying there has been a rampant trend among killer players refusing to hook in matches of dbd on youtube and on twitch and encouraging others to do the same. These people prop up straw man arguements about how slugging bypasses survivor perks to win games. Not only is this just a flaw in game design but it promotes a more and more toxic community. I've attached pictures of just a few of the videos that come up when you search "dead by daylight" on youtube. These were filtered to show only the last months videos but video after video is the same subject. ALOT of these videos try to explain slugging as a strategy but end up coming off as insulting or entitled towards feeling owed a victory
The comments of said videos are all filled with players saying survivors "deserve" this or its "punishment" for bringing certain perks. But after the last match I was in where the killer slugged everyone they entered the chat and said "You can all just leave your angry comments on my steam page" and then left. This was a player using the "slug build" not play for fun but to try to mine salt for some weird personal reason. There is no sound logical explanation for waiting in queue for upwards of 10-15 minutes to enter a slug match that lasts 3 minutes +4 for the slug out timers and say the 13000 bp points was worth the time unless you are intentionally trying to ruin the experience of others. Some survivor perks are strong and can be stronger in a group that is coordinated, BUT no survivor strategy in the game refuses to play the role they chose to play as and is able to bypass the primary objective to get to the goal of all 4 getting out.
Survivors cannot skip doing gens unless 3 others die and only hatch is a option. There is no 4 out no gen strat.
So why should the killer role have such a glaring hole in the games mechanical design?
Yes there are anti slug perks in the game, but unless you have a full anti slug build that offers endurance when you pick yourself up when the killer is standing over you alot of those perks mean nothing. When the slugging killer knows you have antislug you just become a bigger plaything to them when everyone else is already on the floor.
The only thing I will say in favor of the killer role is maybe there needs to be a more defined definition of what is a "win" for the killers. Alot of them only see 4 dead survivors as the only means of a win and that is part of what has lead to this epidemic of slugging.
Comments
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I personally do not see killers trying to slug a whole team as a strategy very often at all. It’s definitely not “rampant”, and just because you see a bunch of videos on YouTube doesn’t mean it’s happening in the average match. And the few times they do try it, it almost never works. The only times I’ve seen it work is against inexperienced/bad players who don’t pick up their teammates. Survivors need to treat a slugged teammate just like a hooked teammate - you need to go for the rescue and you can’t just leave them there. When the survivors do a good job of this, the killer usually loses because they’re not making any progress towards eliminating survivors.
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I’ve said something similar on another post; that while I don’t support this kind of playstyle because I don’t think it should be possible to be able to disable dozens of perks from ever even activating, if it ends up getting enough attention then maybe it will be just what is needed for changes to be made.
If BHVR doesn’t see it as a problem then there won’t be a solution, so until it reaches a “problem” status, it’s best to just move on to the next match. If it really does end up becoming the new meta, and then possible a probe, there will more than likely be base-kit anti-slugging feature implemented in the same way they had to do for 2v8.
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Yeah, this will be the ultimate outcome if it does become rampant: BHVR will implement an anti-slug mechanic. People are just shooting themselves in the foot with this one.
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What about "avoiding X amount of perks that are common" is a straw man? Any other PVP video game and people would tell you to do exactly the same thing. Like sure it's not the most engaging in some aspect but for people wanting to win it is a very valid reason. It's like complaining about survivors wanting to survive aka win.
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Maybe you should slow down and think a bit more about why hooking isn't an attractive option.
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As much as I detest full team slugging I'm reaching the same mindset. It's already happening to me at least once every time I play survivor, by killers running Infectious and Coulrophobia. It's almost always p100 killers (often Unknowns) on Twitch too. At this point I can only hope it gets so bad they finally do something about it.
Last month's excuse was FT but nothing's changed. Now it's apparently the fact that survivors have perks at all.
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unfortunately it’s just the way the meta has been turning this year.
Why would killers ever hook when they are punished so hard for doing so, they have to waste time picking (trying to dodge either a flashy or pallet save [thanks pallet density}) carry to hook then walk all the while survivors are cranking gens while you slowly walk to where they might be at.
Obviously killers have pain res, pop, dms, turn back the clock, but any one of those perks is weak by itself and they’re only effective when stacked with each other in boring quad slowdown builds leaving no room for fun builds.
Killers gotta worry about , deli, ds, dead hard, shoulder the burden, fast track (pre and post rework don’t matter it still works on hook), self preservation, base kit bt, babysitter, we’ll make it, kindred/open handed, 70 sec hook timers.
So again why would they waste time hooking and deal with all that, instead of choosing an easier path in slugging where all you gotta worry about is, unbreakable, wglf, soul guard, mft, conviction.
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Because hooking is part of the intended play. And we know from past experience (ie 3 gen meta, going next, etc) that when too much of the playerbase deviates from the intended path of play, the devs address it via base-kit mechanics. For 3 gen, we got the 8 regression limit. For going next, we got 4% removed. People think they're taking a stand and making a point, but history has shown us all you lot are going to do is cause an anti-slug mechanic to be implemented.
Since I'm seeing alot of the same words coming from multiple people, I'm going to assume there's content creators behind this (as per usual) and I think this is one of those instances where people need to have some common sense.
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Haven't experienced much slugging recently except facing twins. Though it really looks like content creators are kinda pushing into it lately. Though the narrative that "Slugging to circumvent survivor perks" isn't new though. Pretty sure I read that quite often a year ago.
Though I don't see it become meta yet. Maybe just a temporarly trend.0 -
I get about 2-3 slugging Billy's/Blights every time I play. Their whole build is centered around slugging with no intention of hooking. I'm fine, I'll abandon after two downs in solo queue (nobody has time for that in solo), but if this becomes the norm, the Devs will be forced to introduce anti-slugging, and then killer mains will cry because they brought it on themselves.
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lol this hsppened when knock out was meta for a short time and the devs destroyed it but never actually addressed the issue of ehy it was becoming meta which is survivors get buffed/have too many second chances when you hook them it still has counterplay though
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Yeah, 100%. When people started to explain that the reason for the slugging was because of FT, I pushed back only because the “reason” for slugging is always changing. It was never about denying 1 perk, it’s about denying as many perks as possible, as many people who advocate for slugging explain. FT happens to be another perk that could be rendered useless by slugging, but it was absolutely not the cause of it. And as I said already, the fact that it is even possible to deny so many perks from ever even activating, whose only counter to it involve perks with cool downs and restrictions, compared to the actual act which requires none of those things, should not be possible. And while I don’t want to face it anymore, there’s a glimmer of hope that hey, if it starts to become an issue then we know changes will come along so, maybe a very distance twinkle of light at the end of that very dark and long tunnel.
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As stated by the devs on multiple occasions.
Slugging IS intended play, their issues with it is, it’s not overly fun to play on the survivor end and takes away too much agency.
Just because you don’t agree with the playstyle doesn’t make it not intended, that’s like complaining about snipers in an fps because they’re not interactive for the opponent, but they’re still an intended feature to shake up the game so every game isnt the same.
Post edited by Slurp_Ramen at2 -
When intended play becomes more punished and less rewarding then alternative play do you think everyone is obligeted to play it? (The intended way)
If you want slu, slug its intended strategy and slugging whole team is high risk play that doesnt need to work especsly when survivors are good or run some antislug perks.
The negative of slugging instead hooking is less points compare to dealing with less top meta survivor perks and having more chase oriented play that feels more active andless areal control based/ procy camp style of play. Slugging isnt banned as face camping so ots legit strategy with its cons and pros, in these days same as hooking.
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Killers gotta worry about , deli, ds, dead hard, shoulder the burden, fast track (pre and post rework don’t matter it still works on hook), self preservation, base kit bt, babysitter, we’ll make it, kindred/open handed, 70 sec hook timers.
Then let's buff all these perks to have bonus effects against slugging.
That solves the problem, after all.
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It's beyond denying perks, it's denying regular gameplay. Many of the perks being mentioned are such non issues too. Like Kindred? Really? What a tremendous threat. Even if survivors were made perkless there'd be a new excuse. People just want to dominate easily with no resistance. Why, I'll never know, because that's pretty hollow for me personally. I don't feel good about 4ks at 5 gens and I don't know many others who do either. I'd like a proper and engaging match.
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It's no more than last year when someone made a similar post. Or the years before that.
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Can you point us to a single instance where unconditional, regardless of the circumstances, planned from the start of the match, whole team slugging was stated as the way the devs intend matches to play out?
Slugging to avoid parts of the game you just don't want to interact with is a cheese, plain and simple. Survivors just have to suck it up when it comes to killer mechanics that they don't like. I find it funny that killer players get to bypass mechanics they don't like and don't recognize that as anything other than privlege.
Maybe we could have a timer mechanic that powers exit gates after x minutes regardless of gen progress. That way survivors can avoid gens like killers want to avoid hooks. That sound good?
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Im pretty certain when they designed the game they never inteneded for killers to just leave survivors on the floor for 4 minutes. Slugging to secure a hook from a team of flashlight survivors or sabo squad? Kosher slug as you need to, secure that hook. But ignoring hooks entirely is not what I imagine the devs had planned when they programmed them into the game. And you actually get less points than if you were to hook so its not about gaining bp. This meta rewards some of the fewest bp ive seen killers get in a match. How is 11k-13k at the end of a match worth the queue time? 4 minutes of the match at that point at not even spent playing but waiting. Do you really think the devs intended for this?
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People like this don't care about points. They care only about ego.
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Running my tests on this (which we discussed on that thread a while back) I didn't actually get less bp, not by much. Additionally I'd point out that once a killer gets all their killers to P3, BP becomes an invalid means to motivate someone with an intended playstyle. I have zero doubt for some of these killers it's about ego, but I think it's also more complex than to umbrella all of them in such a fashion.
The only solution here that I can see would be for the dev's to implement powerful anti-slug mechanics. The benefits for slugging are just too large. Having run the slugging rounds I did trying to understand I found out too quickly that it's just easier and more enjoyable in gameplay to slug. Yes BP is slightly lower, but I encountered no other issues. Granted I have since gone back to normal 4 hook play, I do understand the position better now.
It's not a strawman to observe the benefits of the tactic, and saying it is 'not intended' is not valid either - if it wasn't intended it would be fixed. The fact that it remains after years means it's effectively intended. I think what we are seeing is a slow shift in the meta which is potentially unhealthy. All ideas I presented to correct it were met with consternation, but that does not mean there are not better ideas out there that could remedy this.0 -
Though I'd disagree about the P3 thing—people still want add-ons, and many want p100s—I'd guess many people don't care about BP. I don't go into matches intending to tunnel or slug people, but I also don't care about points. I'd rather win and have a low score than lose and have a high score, and that's coming from a not terribly competitive person. The number on the scoreboard is just mostly useless to me, especially as killer, when I'm the only one in my group and can't really underperform if I won, compared to survivor, where I'm comparing myself a little more to the other numbers. But I'd still rather escape with a low number than die with a high one.
If it's not about ego-feeding and winning at all costs, why would you do something you know quite well is hated? Every match I have against these people the chat is full of vitriol towards them. They know perfectly well how it makes others react.
The amount of BP varies based on how much happens in the match. If you 4man slug at game start 1 minute in you're going to do less in points than if they keep getting up and getting hit again.
if it wasn't intended it would be fixed
I still don't agree with this. I think it's intended in the sense that you can down multiple people in certain situations. I've done my fair share of desperate end game slugging when everyone is injured and out of position. But I don't think they ever intended for the game to be played this way specifically. It's just not a big enough problem to fix, and the videos with titles like "Why I'm quitting killer forever" and "dbd is dead after new patch" would flood back out into the world from the CC cesspool just like they did with the anti-tunnel ptb. Which, incidentally, included anti-slug. Anti-slug is also present in 2v8. They understand it's an issue, but they won't have the backbone to fix it until it hits an extreme level of problematic.
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That's fair, and I'm happy to agree to disagree. Though I can answer one of your questions:
"If it's not about ego-feeding and winning at all costs, why would you do something you know quite well is hated? Every match I have against these people the chat is full of vitriol towards them. They know perfectly well how it makes others react."
The answer is easy: Total disregard. The bulk of players aren't on the forums, nor do they care to be. They just want to play. I'm often told some horrendous things in egc even when I'm playing with hook spreading. I'm regularly told to unsub from life, so to speak, regardless of how I play. That's why I didn't hesitate to run my own slugging tests - why should anyone care if it's responded to with vitriol, when most of the killer matchs (anecdotal, as largely my own experience here) end this way? Vitriol either way.
Why not just adopt the standard that is less stressful and more fun, if people are going to be toxic no matter what you do?
Again I have no doubt for some this is ego based, but I don't think even the majority of them fall into that camp. It's just easier to disregard it all and play in a fashion that is most fun. If the most fun means slugging, they'll do that. Tunnelling, they'll do that. I did find it refreshing in my slug trials that I didn't have alot of things to worry about. Flashlights, dead hard, etc etc etc.
It's not against the rules and they'll be flamed either way, so why not do it, you know?0 -
Never said any opinion on the playstyle. Strategic slugging is a thing, yes, but hooking is a fundamental part of this game. Quests, emblems, bloodpoints, are based on hooking (for both sides - unhooking is a fundamental part of survivor gameplay, not repeatedly picking each other up. There's a reason survivors can now abandon after being slugged twice). Abandons aren't even included in the official kill rates, so a full team slug can essentially void a game. The 3 gen meta also revolved around slugging and not hooking, and we got the 8 kick limit. Past history tells us exactly how the devs will address this issue, I can only assume you must be new.
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I'm not sure what your point is. Play any way you like, just don't be surprised when your little temper tantrum winds up, yet again, limiting the game for everyone else.
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