The thing I dislike the most in this forum
Hey guys its me again,
maybe you know me, since I try most of the time to write thought out responses or things I would change in some discussions.
Since I am a Survivor main which is scared to play Killer (stress anxiety) I try to go with open eyes on the problems of both sides.
But in the last time the upvote and downvote system was a spinter in my eye. Why do you ask? Well because of the following observation. If I write something which would help the Survivor side my Upvotes are much higher than my downvotes but if I write something Killer related my downvotes explode compared to the upvotes.
Let me give you an example:
One of my strongest Survivor sided thing I want to be implamented into this game is that DS should be usable on both hookstates so that hard tunneling gets a slap on the palm of the hand.
One of my strongest Killer sided thing I wanted to be implamented into this game (in the last days I was active) was to change Fast Track (away from getting tokens per hook to getting tokens for hooking the same survivor in a row), not because I thought this perk was OP but because I thought the perk is promoting unhealthy gamestyles as tunneling.
As you see both things I wrote here is with only thing in the mind, how tunneling "could" be attacked to be less attractive. (Do I think it would disappear? Unlikely… but it would be a step into the right direction)
Well my up and downvotes escalated in both casees. In the one I say to "buff" a Survivor perk I got tons of upvotes in the other case where I talk about a change to a Survivor perk to make tunneling less benefitial for Killer my downvotes went up and up.
Since I know that BHVR looks for statistics and the game is a 4v1 I hope that BHVR is aware of this problem. If people get "Shadow banned" because their posts are "recived" negative by 4 guys when only 1 guy approves than this forum will escalated into a real echo chamber where defending Killer becomes nearly impossible.
My personal problem is my own character. As it is normal for humans I like it when my Upvotes are higher than my downvotes but the only way I can archive this is by catering to the Survivor side because even the smallest and well thought out change which would benefit Killer gets nuked out of nowhere and that leads me away from giving my honest opinion on many topics.
Comments
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I've never seen anything like a shadow ban, and there have been people with consistently unpopular takes to an extreme degree, yet they've still been very much present and visible. The only thing that upvotes and downvotes seem to actually do is that, if you're the OP of a thread and it hits -5 in votes, it will stop bumping. For example, the "slugging meta" post is currently no longer bumping (survivor-focused post btw) because it's hit that threshold.
Also, what gets upvoted and what gets downvoted isn't so simple. First, the climate around what you're discussing matters. Pro-Ghoul post? Yeah, it's getting downvoted cause he's hated. Pro-Dredge post? Would be fine. The heat around FT largely grew because it was obvious it was going to get nerfed because of the uproar, so the tensions leading up to that were high.
Second, and this is not so much towards you specifically, but tone and word choice is the biggest thing that tends to sway votes from what I've observed. You can see two people say the exact same thing on the same thread but in different ways and get different vote ratios.
Which also leads to my last point—it's also a popularity contest. People know one another. They like and dislike one another. Sometimes the post itself doesn't matter much. I can promise you if two people are fighting and one is generally disliked, the votes become nothing of value. People aren't even reading the argument. They're voting for their favorite.
Think about what you're saying. "My anti tunnel idea got upvotes; my other anti-tunnel idea got downvotes." The fact that they're kinda about the same thing should show it's not a black and white issue.
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To be honest, after the 9.2.0 PTB people in this forum started to take every topic as a war, specially when its something to give killers QoL or buffs, reasonable or not.
Even when pallet density threw away years of balance it was horrible to discuss how wasn't healthy for the game to have tons of safe pallets connected.
I personally feel less and less incentivized to interact in this forums in this current state.
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the issue with the forums nowadays is the fact that the social aspect has been heavily squashed by the over-dramatization of personal experiences. you can't go into a thread expecting a well-rounded discussion without someone vomiting negativity or woes that they want to dump on you in order to feel "heard" about something that either was a personal interpretation of a scenario, or an actual genuine issue that has been neglected for years.
in combination with the down-voting system making a come back, a lot of the topics and ways of communicating seem to revolve more around numbers and "who says what better". as you can see, majority of the topics here are either recycled or contain some level of band-wagoning.
honestly most of the things that i could point out about what's going on around here is just obvious enough to where i don't even need to acknowledge it in my reply. it's just exhausting logging in here and seeing the same 500 topics, the same 500 replies, and the same 500 people going tit-for-tat on things that go absolutely nowhere.
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The upvotes and downvotes seem kind of inconsistent to me. I don’t have a lot of posts/comments yet, but I’ve seen some of my comments that are defending the killer side get upvoted while some get downvoted. I can’t figure out rhyme or reason why. In general, it seems like pro-survivor posts/comments tend to get upvoted more and pro-killer downvoted more. This is to be expected just given the nature of the game. 80% of the players in any given match are a survivor, so they naturally have greater numbers. I know a lot of people play both sides, but there are also some who only play one side. We don’t have any data, but it’s very likely that survivor-only players outnumber killer-only players, and I think we see that in the upvotes/downvotes.
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I appreciate you trying to look at things from the killer point of view even though you don’t play killer, and also actually being open with the fact that you don’t play killer. If everyone who only plays one side did the same, this forum would be a much better place.
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Since I know that BHVR looks for statistics and the game is a 4v1
You have to remember that there's a self-selection bias on the forums, so the population here won't necessarily be 4-to-1 either.
Add to that that most players don't fit neatly in either role.
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Honestly I wouldn't stress too much about it. As long as you are trying to articulate yourself in a clear and respectful way, the upvotes and downvotes are somewhat meaningless. People will downvote you for simply disagreeing with you or disliking how you said something. Worrying about it isn't just pointless, its actively harmful. The people on these forums are going to be far more extreme in their positions than probably 95% of the dbd player base. Carrying too much over the upvote/downvote system is a lost cause. Just express what you think and know that for the 5 downvotes you get on these forums there's thousands of players not on these forums that probably agree with whatever you're saying.
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For me it depends on where I post. On the general forum my posts are usually well received and it has been that way historically. The feedback forum on the other hand is very clearly full of alt accounts that mass upvote each other and mass downvote anything they dislike. There is always a suspiciously high number of new accounts with only a few posts every time I go to that section.
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Just from what I've seen on the forums. People don't seem to really want to discuss. Most of what i've read has mostly boiled down to. "You're an X main so you don't fully understand"
End of the day. Make the post and just dont focus on the upvotes and down votes. Cause that isnt the best way to see how people feel about the post since it can either can mass down voted because of the reason of "I don't want to engage in a discussion" or you just repeat the same thing as a youtuber/streamer is saying and you can get upvoted. So yeah don't let the forums make ya feel anxious. Speak your mind!
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What helps me to push through killer anxiety is to play with a survivor mindset, where you don't worry so much about winning. Not to say you don't want to win, just going into survivor lobby feels a lot more casual because you kind of expect to lose, hope to win (based on rng and whatever the killer decides to do). If you go into killer expecting to lose, and hope to win, its easier to que up for more rounds when you aren't feeling like you "have to" outplay 4 people, but instead just play for the fun of your favorite playstyle. I play survivor about 65% of the time.
As for the 2 ideas you had i wouldn't say it was about which side it was good for. But moreso if it makes more sense in the game, as DS working on both hook states would kinda make more sense as its mainly to prevent tunneling, and if killers don't normally tunnel theyd see that as reasonable along with the survivors. But the change to fast track is something that doesn't make sense for the game as it completely obliterates the perk unless the killer is hard tunneling. Nerfing it to a point where most players wouldn't see the value of the perk anymore so they voted that down as they didn't like the idea.
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I know it's easier said than done, but I'd ignore the upvotes and downvotes. In my experience the majority of participants in this forum are widly biased towards one side or other. People will just give snap reactions on your posts based on their biases. Doesn't really mean much, I see posts where people are talking cogent sense and receiving loads of downvotes, and ones where people are just engaging in wild tribalism and getting plenty of upvotes.
Juust give your real opinions and ignore the haters. Don't start pandering for upvotes from morons.
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I just think bringing back downvotes made this place more toxic
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the fear of getting downvotes shouldnt stop you from expressing your feedback but it is kind of understandable that it does, especially considering this community and presence of us vs them mentality not even just considering killer vs surv players
I still also don’t really see the need for the downvote system as even highly upvoted posts may be ignored by the devs (see that optimization thread as am example) and its very obvious users use the downvote not only to disagree with a stated opinion or feedback but because of personal or other stupid reasons. Eg i see downvotes on my comments where i just answer a facts based question and i emphazise in the post its not my opinion but just the answer to the question..
upvotes can be seen as agreement or thanks or something but they also may be used just because of personal sympathy for the user (though that usage doesnt correlate with unnecessary negativity)
tldr downvotes just encourage negativity without actually contributing anything meaningful.
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You can adblock the vote down element if you don't want to see it.
Personally I like to see how many people I annoyed.
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"your boos mean nothing to me; I've seen what makes you cheer!"
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sure, but this doesn't change how the voting system is especially designed to prevent topics from being bumped or doesn't give an incentive to contribute to a conversation. the same thing that a good portion of this community argued that should not be a thing for literal years before it was re-enabled (without discussion, mind you).
it's like putting a rug over a rusty nail: you can't see the nail and thus feel more comfortable walking on the carpet barefoot, but you're still going to get stabbed if you step on it wrong.
the nature of karma and voting systems has outright destroyed the quality of communication in bulletin boards and social platforms as a whole. when combined with moderation decisions, these forums have been becoming smaller and smaller.
blocking elements can't bring people back.
edit because now im angry actually: like right now. why is leon's OP no longer getting bumped when it had a reasonable conversational point? because people down voted it. now this thread is doomed to die because people decided to mass-downvote instead of talking about it. this is infuriating
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I don't even pay attention to them. They're meaningless and probably dependent on how someone feels that day, whether they've just come out of a bad game, etc etc.
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Cog nailed it, I think. He and I have bickered back and forth a good deal but it's always been civil and respectful. We don't often agree, but I appreciate that he has been direct and respectful every time. Often enough our voting reflects that. But some of the other… let's call them less tone-minded folks in the forums tend to eat downvotes like calories.
Additionally while I dislike admitting it, many people are seeing recycled posts and sentiments that they have argued and argued and argued, only to reach no result. Eventually it's to be expected some number of those folks will just downvote to say 'I disagree' without offering actual context. As much as that seems unkind and to a degree it is, they are not obligate to explain their vote either.
It's not a perfect system, but it works well enough for the purpose I think.3 -
Just wanted to tag along and agree with your point of the same arguments being regurgitated over again and just wanting a quick yay or nay to that. Not that those topics aren’t important but there comes a point where you get tired of saying the same thing. That, and that there’s plenty of posts that are clearly a rant/vent or that the OP is so clearly.. let’s say passionate about whatever they’re talking about that you know they aren’t actually wanting to engage in any kind of points. And that if you do attempt some kind of counter argument or different perspective it is immediately written off because you’re not agreeing with them. I think downvotes are a quick way to disagree without “taking the rage-bait” so to speak in what can sometimes be nothing but an argument loop because they never intended for their point to be challenged in the first place.
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We're not bickering, we're discussing. That's an important distinction in a community that is almost all bickering. I have friends I don't agree with and that's fine. It's just a game. The ability to be civil, rational, and decent is what matters.
And yeah, I'm pretty tired of the same crap over and over again, especially when someone just drops some angry, biased rant that isn't a point for discussion, just a soapbox to stand on and scream at passersby from. Those are worth nothing more than a downvote's worth of time.
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