With diminishing returns being a thing, will perks see buffs?
For me, specifically gen regression perks.
I haven't played in a while (since like June of last year) and coming back I see diminishing returns is a thing, I don't hate the idea but my question is, what about all the gen perks that got nuked because of the 3 gen meta from like… 2-3 years ago? I don't even remember anymore.
Gen perks were stacked together, creating lots of regression and they could be kicked over and over again, which was unfun and got nerfed, fair enough. But what this caused was that most of the gen perks were than awful UNLESS you stacked them. It was a bandaid fix that didn't really do anything it just made relying on stacking gen perks to get proper value out of them, a requirement instead of an overtuned alternative to using them.
But now they're still mostly all at their nerfed values AND diminishing returns is in the game… sooo??? On TOP of the regression limit that was added which further makes the 3 gen meta basically impossible to happen again. They have the nerfed values that get further nerfed if you stack them even though you basically HAVE to stack them or else they just do nothing on their own.
Call of brine is still at 150%, useless on its own. Overcharge still caps at 130%, useless on its own. Ruin is still at 150%. Undone is still just a useless perk design. Eruption (afaik again haven't played in a while) is still a borderline detriment to use due to the fact it takes off 2 regression events from a gen, as opposed to just using pop to get a big chunk off a gen while only needing one kick.
And I say gen perks specifically because I play killer and I've always despised the direction they took with nerfing gen perks, and I've said something like diminishing returns should've always been Plan A as opposed to something only happening years down the line. But it really goes for EVERY perk that's ever been nerfed due to it being stacked with another perk of the same effect.
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Gen regression perks were almost entirely unaffected by diminishing. Gen perks on the survivor side got more heavily nerfed by diminishing than killer ones.
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I mean they're not entirely unaffected though? They are still hit by diminishing returns.
The point I'm making is that they've already been nerfed to hell from the old 3 gen meta to the point of needing to be stacked to get value out of regression perks, then they did the regression events change where a gen can only be hit with an regression event like 8 times iirc, and NOW it's diminishing returns on top of all that.
So they've gotten worse and worse and worse, while still being individually horrid perks. They are bad on their own and require stacking to get meaningful value but now you get punished for stacking them with diminishing returns, unless you just play the same old meta of gen blocking with pain res dms.
It's essentially a flat nerf to something that didn't need it and is reliant on stacking to even be meaningful in the first place.
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You aren't punished for stacking them though. Diminishing doesn't affect all perks, only certain ones. You can still bring popular builds like Pain Res, Turn Back the Clock, Surge, and DMS and it's unaffected. On the survivor side if you bring Deja Vu and someone else brings Prove Thyself, there's a speed nerf. Or if you bring Deja Vu and Resi. So why should there just be random buffs to perks that weren't affected by this system when most gen speed perks essentially got nerfed but most slowdown ones didn't?
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To be fair, what you're pointing out here only applies to CoB and Overcharge, not the other examples, and at that point it's just kind of two bad perks.
I'm all for doing something to help them be strong and useful without being unhealthy again, but I don't think the Diminishing Returns system really makes much of a difference there, they're already bad without it.
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I am talking about perks like COB and Overcharge that require stacking to be meaningful yet get punished for it.
Just saying "use the meta options" isn't actually a retort that's not my point. If that's the case never change anything because people can just use the meta options lol. I'm talking about helping out the gen perks that have been mostly terrible since the 3 gen meta nerfs.
I didn't say "buff pain res".
Eruption is still a detriment to use ever since the regression events changes. COB and Overcharge have mostly been terrible ever since 3 gen nerfs (even when COB went up to 150% it changed hardly anything) and the main way to use COB is by stacking it with something like overcharge.
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If that's the case never change anything because people can just use the meta options lol.
That is the current issue, that certain perks were hit and others weren't. The system is not good as it is right now. The whole argument against it was just that—that it would further tighten the meta. Though buffing other regression perks would just have them join the meta anyway. It's not exactly creative and variety-filled to just add more anti-gen to the meta.
But buffing these two perks would be fine if they also buff all the healing, gen speed, and haste perks that were affected as well.
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Yes like I said in the OP. I'm speaking about ALL perks in general that are affected by diminishing returns. I brought up gen perks specifically because I already hated how they were nerfed in the first place and have been asking for proper buffs to these perks for God knows how long, that have basically been forgotten after the 3 gen meta and I play killer.
The best way to get more variety in perk usage would be to have more than 4 actually useful perks, especially when we're talking about gen regression perks. The best ones haven't actually changed in years outside of the addition of turn back the clock because they giga nerfed them after 3 gen and then just kinda left them.
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I'm speaking about ALL perks in general that are affected by diminishing returns. I brought up gen perks specifically because I already hated how they were nerfed in the first place and have been asking for proper buffs to these perks for God knows how long, that have basically been forgotten after the 3 gen meta and I play killer.Well to go on @cogsturning point more broadly, diminishing returns doesn't actually affect a lot of things even when we look past gen regression. So on the gen rush side a survivor isn't going to run any combo of deja, resilence, prove thyself anymore, but they can still run deja, hyperfocus, built to last, and 1-2-3-4 if they wanted and diminishing returns doesn't effect it.
Basically, and a lot of people pointed this out, stacking the same type of value is kind of a red herring to the problem. Thus you can't just boost CoB or Deja just because they don't directly stack anymore, because they still synergize really well with other perks.
Are there a few perks that might get boosted because of this? Sure, but I really think it will be a slow process because if BHVR had an idea of what they wanted to increase because of diminishing returns, it would have happened at the same time.
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only note I will add is that they said somewhere that Diminishing Returns isn't just a one and done system they added, it will still be tweaked a bit more over time like the finisher more and opportunities to abandon a match, just this one is a bit more impactful than those examples so might see potentially drastic changes or just be adjusted over a longer period
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