Xenomorph and turrets
Hello, in this post i'd like to talk about turrets or more so double turret set ups. It guarantees to kick out the Xenomorph out of the crawler mode with zero counterplay for the killer when placed correctly and it does so for little to no effort or consequences for the survivor team. I am surprised the developers haven't adressed this already, especially with how pallet density hurt Xeno. So this is my concept on how I would go about it.
The best way to adress it, is to simply make placing turrets impossible if their flame ranges overlap with an appropriate visual change when they do overlap. This could cause some issues on maps like Midwitch, Rpd or the Game with them having 2 floors, so the flame range detection obviously must have a height range like 1m or 1,5m in terms of detecting other turrets.
Turrets should be less sluggish to use for survivors as well. To do that, the flame range will be decreased from 10m to 8,5m (lambert's star map and emergency helmet add-ons being completely reworked*), the hindered effect going from 35% to 18% and the set up time from 2s to 1,25s
Add-on reworks*
Lambert's Star Map — Xenomorph enters and exits the stations 10% faster
Emergency Helmet — When Xenomorph destroys a turret, it gains 7% haste for 3s.
Comments
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Personally, I think it is fine that turrets can be placed so close together.
Xeno's crawler mode is extremely oppressive in chase. The survivors line of defense against it has to be very powerful and effective because otherwise he will down them way too quickly.
The more effective a killer is in chase, the more powerful the conterplay against them has to be.
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You know that it is the function of the turrets to kick Xeno out of its power? Survivors basically HAVE to put two turrets next to each other to achieve it, one turret is not enough to do it. What you are basically asking is to make turrets too inefficient so that you basically cannot get Xeno out of its power at all.
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The tail was nerfed to be more reactable, frankly turrets should have been nerfed with it, there's also stronger powers that don't have ways to force the killer to lose it. Xenomorph is not strong enough to warrant how strong turrets are. They should at best be chase extenders allowing you to make it to the next loop and make distance, not chase enders. The counterplay isn't fair or fun to deal with at all when stacked and that's why the killer isn't played much.
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This did happen, like literally everything you're saying. When the xeno's tail windup got lengthened, it came with stronger inherent resistance to the flamer turrets.
If you run lambert's star map and have decent reaction speeds, the flamer turrets are already just a speed bump.
I am a p100 xenomorph, I basically haven't gotten knocked out of crawler mode since the last set of changes unless I'm being careless or I've determined I can just run down the survivor and M1 them and not care about the turret.
Turrets at this point against any experienced Xenomorph are literally just the equivalent of a protection hit for survivors. Someone running in to take a hit and extend the chase and give the other survivor some extra distance.
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Opressive is not the word i would use. There are many killers with far better anti-loop, Xeno can just put you in lose lose situations more often at close range.
Even if turrets were removed, I am not sure he would end up as an A tier. So no, turrets should just be buying you time in chase, not kicking the killer out of power with no way for the killer to actually do something about it.
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Entertaining the idea of removing turrets, do you actually think that standardising survivor gameplay by removing one of the few instances of killer-specific interactions would be a positive for the game?
From what I understand, the general consensus surrounding Xeno is that his chase is already rather uninteractive due to the fact that the constant threat of his tail whip leads to having to predict when he's going to use it, rather than reacting to instances of it being used. Incorrect or premature guesses lead to the loss of significant distance in chase when looping. This alone obviously isn't necessarily cause for changes to his power, there will always be certain killers with aspects to their power that aren't looked upon fondly by those playing against them, but turrets are the only thing that survivors have to directly combat this issue.
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Probably just low a-tier but tail isnt that op as people say and turrets are making xeno jump from super low a-tier to c-tier just like hag with soloq and coordinated swf teams.
Springtrap is answer he has very simular attack but in some sence stronger, he has no turrets that hold him back, when he throws axe he still regains it faster in like 7 seconds compare to xenos what 30 seconds after getting kicked out of crawler mode or must go to tunnel to get it while another survivors just resets the turret, and springtrap has very simular mobility just no info but more stealth (which is something alien shoul more exceed in than big mechanic doll that stomps like mini godzila) and faster traversal across the map with less annoyence like xeno has in tunnels (sometimes you cant get into the right way and it takes few tries).
Springtrap is actualy better in some things and against good survivors he is way better than xeno because he has no turrets that would get him out of power for 30 seconds and has his power way more which is something that destroys better survivors more than xenos "better antiloop" (its better but sometimes its not much better than springtraps axe and turrets exist which will throw it all out of window).
Springtrap has better use than huntress against good survivors and his orbitals are something that is super hardcore to pull casualy but it has huge potencial even when chances of getting it work are in the stars its still there and if you saw uknown vs spring from hens there was some incrediable shots from springtrap guy that were super cool and even these comp survivors had no clue about them which is something xeno can dream on in tunnels.
So if xeno isnt your type and you are annoyed by turrets go for springtrap, he is almost the same but with skill and time investment he becomes just upgrade of xeno.
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But that is the thing: a killer shouldn't be able to put you in in a lose lose situation. There should never be a scenario in DBD where there is nothing you can do.
Which is why the turrets have to be powerful. Xeno should be knocked out of his power, because if he isn't he will down a survivor extremely fast.
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I would be fine with double turret setups being removed, just because its a big pain point for xeno players, but basekit nerfs to single turrets on top of this would make them utterly pointless.
Turrets are part of what makes Xeno's kit unique, and I think reducing them to a non factor would just make them a more boring killer overall.
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I think the double turret setup is busted and their info on xenos position and how close he is is kinda overcooked too.
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Anti turret add-ons are still very popular, so my idea of nerfing the range was to make both setting up and playing around them less sluggish.
For all i care you can just not nerf the range as long as double turrets are gone.
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Not a fan of the idea myself, I just threw it out there. For Xeno's chase, it depends on the loop and how the survivor keeps their distance. The more distance and the better the loop is, the more xeno will have to brute force the loop rather than trapping a survivor in a guessing game. So a key to winning a chase is to keep your distance and not getting stuck in a low loop for long, which with pallet density it isn't hard. I wouldn't be oppossed to Xeno having only a short lunge or not being able to m1 in general in crawler mode. Obviously then the developers would need to seriously tweak his kit.
I think in Xeno's current state, turrets shouldn't be removed. Singular turrets are mostly fine on their own as well. I mostly use Lambert's star map cause sometimes i do not notice turrets in bushes etc, so they could be a bit bigger and brighter ig
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