My biggest issue with the gameplay of current DbD
As much as I adore playing both Killer and Survivor role in DbD, there has been a big issue I've taken to how the game has developed up to this point: it's grown to have too fast of a gameplay pace. Don't get me wrong: the game as it stands now is in a significantly better place compared to its worst periods. But seeing how long a competent Survivor can keep a chase with a competent Killer or how quickly competent Killers can down a competent Survivor, the directions of perks/items/add-ons prioritizing Chase and overall quicker game pace... it's become apparent to me that the focus of the devs is to keep up the speed of the game even if it renders outdated a lot of gameplay design.
I remember back in 2019 when I saw how popular and strong Sprint Burst and Lithe were especially with how they were used not as a way to escape Killer, but to extend Chase by at least a minute to give the rest of the team more time to do gens. I said to myself "Geez! These perks are busted! Hope BHVR nerfs them because they really make the game feel so much faster!" Cut several years later and not only have they not nerfed these two Exhaustion Perks, but they doubled down on this type of gameplay loop with Finesse.
Then I thought back to the time when I personally had the most enjoyment with DbD and... that was with the Portrait of Murder and Forged in Fog Chapters, two chapters that was part of the era of DbD where the playerbase complained about how slow the game was between the Gen Kick Meta, no restrictions on Gen Regression and how much more viable anti-heal was. And it made me think, "...so I enjoyed DbD when it was slower." And it was! Playing Killer felt more methodical and calculating while playing Survivor felt more like figuring out the Killer's gameplan and being three steps ahead of them by ruining their plans ahead of time. But now...? Everything has to be fast. Playing Killer means needing to down everyone as quick as possible or the Survivors will recover and all gens will pop before you know it. Conversely, playing as Survivor means needing to be containing a Killer as much as possible while doing gens as quickly as possible or else Killer steamrolls everyone. And honestly... I'm not sure if I like that direction.
Do you enjoy the current speed and pace of DbD? Do you think there is a place for slowing down the pace of DbD so that methodical and long-term planning actually means something again?
Comments
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Nice AI post.
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Nice AI response. It does not invalidate the feelings I have for the game in regards to its speed, so idk why you decided to make such a nothingburger post about it.
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100% agree. The pace is too fast, gens fly too fast, killers need to have speed to keep up. It leaves slower killer like Myers and trapper in the dust while people usually go blight or ghoul so we get a very stale repetitive game with the same killers over and over and we get tunneling to get someone out fast.
The reason it has come to this is partly due to people saying they hate doing gens so the the Devs won't slow them down and partly due to people saying they want "interaction" and always in the action. The result is we have fast paced matches where it's more like an action game than a horror game.
I would prefer it way more if the game was slowed down, had more tension and suspense, more stealth, all killers had the feeling of being lethal not just the top tiers while the lower tiers are mocked and literally ran circles around a pallet. If there was any alternative to DBD I would drop DBD in a shot but it's the only option available unfortunately.
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I don't know why people are downvoting you either but yeah. When the game was a lot slower, it definitely had a lot more suspense to it. A lot more reasons to tread carefully or you get punished. Now people just want to finish games quickly and move onto the next queue. Imo, that's where I feel a lot of the core issues people have with the game exist in where it's less about wanting an authentic game experience and more about wanting to play DbD like any other multiplayer live service game with competitive elements. All the balancing adjustments and changes to the core gameplay feel like they fit this mentality
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People are downvoting because some people here downvote anything that isn’t “all killers are broken and OP and gen speeds are still too slow.” They don’t play killer and so they don’t know and don’t care how difficult it can be to play against good survivors with lower tier killers.
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Do you enjoy the current speed and pace of DbD? Do you think there is a place for slowing down the pace of DbD so that methodical and long-term planning actually means something again?If we want to slow down pace of the game basically all mobility killers will need to be nerfed OR their needs to be different rules for high mobility vs low mobility.
We have Ghoul swinging around the map getting lock on into mending at high speed, meanwhile we have hag in the same game that waddles around slowly and has to set up traps as a power. Its impossible to have a balance state that works for both of them if the game rules are the same for both of them.6 -
Really now?
It's not impossible to do well as M1 killers if you just put your mind to it.
You just need to think outside the box, and not run the universal meta all the time.1 -
Speed is just a side effect. For the last five years, they've done whatever they can to make the game as skewed and boring as possible. They add too many weights to one half of the scale and figure it'll balance itself out.
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A reason why gens are also done fast is also because of the S tier killers getting out of hand if the game drags on. Best counter to their high mobility/high lethality is to not give them a prolonged game.
I think a good example of this is lets take Blight with 4 slow down perks. Pain Res, Surge, Dead man Switch and Eruption. As we know Blight is a strong killer and with these 4 slow down perks he easily can get out of hand by downing the first person. Best way to counter it? Don't give him the momentum, do the gens before he really has a chance to use any of the perks.
And a sad side affect of the high mobility/lethality killers is the game has now been pretty much balanced/focused around them leaving any killer who doesn't have speed or fast downing potential in the dust. On the survivor side of things you're going into a match expecting to verse our example killer, Blight with 4 slow downs and would have to do what I stated above. Do gens faster than he can get momentum. So even if they are going up against any other killer that isn't S tier they're just gonna do the gens fast anyway because they already brought the build to do gens.
So unfortunately if we try to slow the game down for these none S tier killers you would have to do a lot of balance changes and maybe even killer power reworks for any of the S tier killers. And unfortunately this is BHVR so good luck with any kind of real problem solving with this one. I honestly see BHVR adding another 10 seconds to gens instead of addressing the actual problem.
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I didn't say it's impossible, it's just 10x harder and way more stressful. I'm an M1 killer main (Myers) so I know it's not impossible to do well, however I can have a much easier and relaxed time playing blight.
Fact remains, the gameplay has become faster and as a result faster killers are being played more than slower ones, faster killers are being introduced to the game (ghoul and Krause).
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When I first started playing the game properly (which was only at the start of this year, I might add) I was mostly matched with other babies. During this time, the game pace was a lot slower. They spent time actually finding generators, meanwhile I spent time finding them. I could down them quickly, sure, but then it took me a while to get into the next chase, during which some gen progress may have occurred.
The lack of overall player knowledge in these lobbies made the game feel entirely different. I could be a lot more methodical, trying to think ahead about where I might be most likely to find someone to chase. When I did find someone, usually I was catching them a little off guard and the resulting panic made the game feel like an actual horror asym, instead of a game of competitive tag. I think, ultimately, this is the experience the devs build for, despite it not being the experience of 90%+ of the modern playerbase.While I prefer the faster pace on the survivor side, as it challenges me to be efficient, and every extra second I buy in chase feels like a victory on its own, hitting a decent enough MMR on killer that I'm matching into good players has made me play killer less. It's not because I want easy games overall, it's just because killer is higher stress, requiring more mental energy that I don't have most days after work. While hyper efficiency is a fun challenge on survivor, it's just stressful on killer. Every second I spend doing anything other than 2-tapping someone feels like a loss, and one bad call could cost me the game.
I still enjoy killer and the game overall, but I miss having a second to think about what I'm doing.3 -
This. x1000 This.
There needs to be different match rules depending on the selected killer, trying to push a one-size-fits-all format does not work any more.
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Yeah I feel like Blight ruined a lot of the pacing design of the game and centralized the Killer meta to be around needing to combine lethality and rushing and Survivors needing to have better tools to combat this. It feels even worse knowing that this playstyle of Blight wasn't even originally designed to be that since they wanted to do something different with him (and couldn't) and now a Pandora's Box of horrific game design was opened by complete accident. Billy was originally nerfed because the developers correctly acknowledged that combining hard to react to mobility with a one-shot down was not a good idea. But because of the way the game evolved, they not only reverted that nerf on Billy but also turned it into a speed buff even though that was a horrible idea in practice. On the other hand, you have Hag who used to be seen as a great Killer and has only received buffs. Yet nowadays, she's seen as a very weak Killer because the game evolved in a way that rendered her methodical playstyle extremely weak. I do hope that BHVR recognizes that they need to slow the game down just a little bit
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I like using Invocations to enjoy a nice slow start
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That would require accountability and a desire to learn from their audience. Instead, we're going to get more and more bad decisions and be treated as if we don't know what we're talking about. I would love to be proven wrong, but after playing this game for nearly 7 years now… I don't think it's happening.
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Unfortunately I don't see them learning to try slow the game down. Even if they wanted to I believe the community would have such a massive push back on any of the changes BHVR would do.
Thats why I think a lot of the balance changes we've had for the last year or so have been so minuscule that it doesn't actually affect anything. They either don't understand what to do for some changes to the game or they know if they try to shake things up too much the player base will argue and fight the devs on the changes. For better or worse.
I think the biggest change I can really say affected anything was nerfing Blight's move speed and token when breaking a pallet.
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It has changed the feel of the game for the worse. When I play killer I feel very hard up against it, can't miss a beat because it costs me time I don't have and I lose gens very quick and as surv (who is distinctly mid at chase) I need every member of the team to be on point or killer snowballs.
Overall game speed is up and it makes the games a little too high pressure for my liking. Would prefer it to feel a little more tactical. Plus it prevents a lot of older slower killers i.e. trapper, ghostface and after her nerfing skull merchant from being relevent anymore.
So many dashslop killers being release (ghoul, krasue, looking at you) because slower killers just aren't viable anymore.
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TBH I blame fellow killer mains for not allowing any breather matches and forcing comp mindset. You aren't allowed to be casual outside 2v8 as survivor players and it shows in our player stats even twitch viewership drops by half. I can't blame survivors for rushing gens when if they even tried a silly build chances are they are the weak link and snowball the match. BHVR furthered this with their changes and forcing anti/gen rush to be the only viable means for survivor side. Like we can't keep demanding one side to be pin prick perfection then be pikachu surprised that's the only way they ever play. I prefer 2v8 as a spirit player because I know a good portion aren't gonna comp in anticipation I'mma tunnel off hook.
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I miss the days when I mostly played against huntress, she is so fun to play against. I want more killers like that
I think I agree that Blight had a pandora's box effect on the game, though really the concepts existed so long as nurse has been in the game.2 -
I blame matchmaking and pregame lobbies not doing a good enough job to create balanced matches. Also the MMR system being based on individual escapes instead of team escapes, and a terrible matchmaker that is way too broad in favor of speed, yet comfortable tossing people into lobbies where both the MMR balance AND wait time gets destroyed by constant dodging instead of spending a bit more time gathering 5 players that are a good match, then sending them straight into the game instead of going through lobby in the first place. Completely fixable problems but I doubt anything will actually be done to improve it. Didn't BHVR promise MMR changes as part of their QoL changes? Whatever happened to that?
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Fun parts are kinda gone. That's why people do gens.
Chests are useless
Totems are useless because perks aren't good
Flashbangs nerfed
Flashlights saves are much easier and that makes them a lot less exciting
Pallet saves impossible when killer hitbox covers the palletI was 100% surv main when it was fun.
Now I mostly prefer killer side if queue times are decent enough.7 -
meta is called that because it is an acronym which stands for "most effective tactic available" that is precisely why it is "meta" because it is in fact the best thing you could be doing.
But i would like to know, what do you do on these m1 killers, can you post some videos? You can use OBS to record a video of a match totally free and then upload it to youtube totally free as well. Would love to learn what you are doing differently than everyone else, we could all learn something.
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I just can't agree the matchmaker has never in it's existence ever been grand. But it's only within this last few years that we've gotten to this point. And in killer subs/killer heavy forums, It's an endless scream fest of Survivors must be MIT level engineer good at the game and it's not killer's responsibility if they don't have fun. End result is this, we have survivors who won't even take a chance on fun because killers have made it perfectly clear even if the game folds in on itself because of their actions they are gonna continue to do so. We now only have a playerbase when 2v8 is up because it's the only time survivors can breathe and devs will ensure it's not a complete stomp or 40 minute long heal simulator.
We are the only game I've ever played Asym or not where one role is allowed to dictate this hard while never actually improving themselves. And that's the main issue most killer players have NEVER touched survivor, never learned what gen is priority. Never learned proper rotation on walls. Will run builds only because some streamer says best for that killer without knowing what their personal weaknesses are. Meanwhile survivors have to know perfect timing on every single interaction with killer. Factor in ping difference since BHVR will never apparently remove bluetooth hits. Know exact rotation on walls, have to have the top build etc etc. Killer skill ceiling is in the toilet and Survivor is a skyscrapper and it's not good balance whatsoever. I don't even agree nurse is hard. She's literally just blink management like Tracer, and the easiest to abuse the auto lock aim killers have to get hits she shouldn't. She was my first adept and I wasn't apart of the community at the time and truly felt she was easier than every other killer because I could ignore the main function of killer so easily on her.-1 -
Both sides are guilty the same its not killer or just survivor its just depends which will sweat first and have super high chance they will stomp the other thats it.
Survivors do gens very effectivenor killers start tunnel at start but either way both do this it only depends which you get. Nowdays survivors are more better with looping and have more help from things like shared hud or can see now loadouts of others which makes them play better more experience combined with information which makes them more effective.
I cant nowdays blame anyone kinda its either sweat and win or chill and get stomped into the ground and this circle repeats on and on.
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Disagree, it's such an issue killer side that one of the main listed reasons on uninstall is "excessive tunneling and camping." And nothing in what you said addresses the core issues I brought up. Survivors HAVE to know exact rotations or snowball they aren't allowed fun builds they've been optimized out of existence. The devs even nerfed steagull for no reason other than 'annoyance' not because of gameplay whatsoever. I can still run a full hex build which isn't optimal on my killers and 3k-4k with minimal lose. But if I try a boon build on survivor I have 4 dead perks and a wasted time on my teammates. The only solution would be a change in queue where it's you want one side but it's not guaranteed We should of never had mains.
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You just name one side and blame other but theres nothing constrictive and using these questionnaires as valid reason is lame because they werent held up by any data from devs tgey were just balant info for devs and they were mostly aiming for survivors and their issue than killers which makes it one sided again.
Both sides push meta and getting better at it thats just it and your idea that its this one side because its the bad one from your standarts doesnt mean anything than hust your opinion that I dont see as valid reason .
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Don't need to provide video proof for anything.
I am just going to put out that chase oriented builds works wonders. The faster you can close the distance, the better it is.
Action/vault speed is really good on M1's, as it can catch people off guard a lot.
No one expects to see a Trapper with Bamboozle, right?3 -
Meta comes from the word meta, not an acronym. It's a Greek prefix, and literally means 'after' or 'beyond.' Metaphysical is beyond physical. Metacognition is thinking about thinking. Metagame is outside of the game. ie Analysis of strategies outside of the self-enclosed gamestate, and has been in use in that way for almost a century.
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This is what I thought, but now Reiami has be questioning my whole life. It was like when I found out proc was an acronym.
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…you mean the official stats that showed sfws win at 1% higher than solo making them an entire non issue boogeyman? And I speak as a killer player lmao what hurt my opinion?
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if everybody on NA servers agrees to play only Trapper, sorry but Trappers meta. that's how meta works, it means after.
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Personally I prefer slower matches than we have now. Not like, Skull Merchant/3 Gen slow mind you, but comparatively slower.
Aside from a player base that is just more experienced now we're also feeling the results of the arms race between killers and survivors. So far, the solutions to in game problems have never leaned into slowing things down. It's not one side versus the other, it's both sides continuously leap frogging each other into quicker and quicker match times.
- Killer: Have a hard time finding chases? Here's a handful of aura perks that will result in not having to spend time looking for anyone.
- Killer: Have a hard time patrolling gens? Here's smaller maps so you don't have to walk as far and are more likely to spot someone.
- Killer: Have a hard time with map traversal? Here's some new killers that can slingshot or teleport themselves from one corner of the map to the other in almost the amount of time it took me to write this sentence.
- Survivor: Have a hard time getting gens done now that killers are being led right to you and chewing through hook states faster? Here's faster gen speeds and better gen perks.
- Survivor: Can't afford to waste time unhooking quickly because you need to be on gens or die? Here's longer hook states.
- Survivor: Dying faster because map size, visibility, and aura perks are creating a situation where you're basically fed straight to killers from the start of the match? Here's some pallets. Haha, j/k - content creators are losing their minds over this so we're going to go ahead and take those away. Git gud I guess. Ohh, here's a new item called a fog vial. Haha, j/k again.
And so on. The game is just being distilled into the most efficient, most frustrating, least fun form possible for both sides. Hooray.
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What was the point of side objectives when all they do is the main objectives?
They might as well remove totems and chests since nobody is using it lmao
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"Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game." - Soren Johnson
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I do love that you bring up that stat because everyone likes to either ignore it or say its not true stats.
We finally have proof that SWF are not winning as much as people like to say
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Exactly what I always think, and the worse is we being a game that doesn't even have a comp scene. There's literally no reason for how heavy handed they swing everything.
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It's honestly wild cause you can even tell in the most highly edited streamer games they spliced like 3 good games out of 30. Swfs on average aren't going "He's at grid 12 kicking gen, rotating to grid 3 now." They're just that survive with friends, once I played enough survivor and had iri on all I was really struck by how utterly miserable it is. Even worse if you're a streamer who wants to be casual. Friend hides their name now and said it was night and day to when they have ttv on. We desperately need to hide names fully survivor side from killer to allow the matches to play out.
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