Why is this community so hostile?

Agreed, and sadly I think its because both sides don't feel heard and so vent through the game.

Survivors feel like tunneling/slugging/bleed to death ect ect are horrible to play against and don't see the devs doing enough in their eyes to punish these unfun playstyles.

Killers feel like the event/old ds/ bully squads/ swf are horrible to play against and don't see devs balance things around them in their eyes and so aren't doing enough to help them against these unfun playstyles.

And so both have devolved into this "ill play how i want playstyle because X games ago someone slugged/teabagged/flashlight clicked/ tunneled me so I'm going to play for my fun" and its ended up for those who only play one role making it an US vs Them problem, which has only furthered the divide.

Every nerf is seen by a majority on that role as a personal slight "given X is still going on why dont they focus on that" and it translates to hate/abuse. Its not ok, and nobody should be doing this. But they feel as if its their only way to vent against what they see as underhanded/toxic/sweaty/all of the above.

My advice, from what I can remember you can mute message notifications on xbox, and if this game is something your spending a considerable amount of time playing id just keep them off and give the people who matter an alternate way to communicate with you so you never look at those messages.

I pretty much agree that the source of the problem comes from the devs themselves, because of their contempt for the community and their determination to ignore players at all costs.

The current event, the 10th Anniversary event, is the ultimate proof of that.

Just look at the gigantic disadvantage killers have compared to survivors.

An event like this is bound to create frustration among killer players, and the devs, as usual, will just ignore the problem.

Once that frustration is met with complete silence, killers will naturally rush to take it out on survivors, who will then get their revenge on killers in return.

That's the very mechanism that created DBD's vicious cycle of toxicity.

Over the years, the devs have done nothing but fuel players' anger through new perks, meta changes, and events.

Why? Your guess is as good as mine. Maybe they believe DBD can only survive thanks to players' frustration.

I mean it doesn't help that the community has equated intended game mechanics with toxicity.

A significant number of players consider tunneling, slugging, and flashlight blinds to be toxic.

It only depends on how it's used because people have equated it with toxicity lol

If it were normalized to expect the killer to want to prioritize people closer to death, and for survivors to know this and play accordingly, you wouldn't have people who tunnel with the clear intention of trying to upset you.

Yeaaaaaa no. I've personally been tunneled and camped for my name of
"Rulebreaker". If you think people wouldn't do something just to spite
another here in the fog I got some stuff to sell.

That's my point.

People do that because people think it's toxic to do that despite the fact they're intended game mechanics. So you can upset people by just playing the game the way it was designed.

If it was expected that the killer might tunnel you because you're in a vulnerable position, you wouldn't have people tunneling to be toxic, because that's just the expectation.

Imagine a world where the community decided that hooking was toxic. It's no less arbitrary than deciding tunneling is toxic. If you get hooked you get put closer to death, and there is a real chance this could have been the case since early in the game there was no Borrowed Time or DS or any sort of off-hook protection, and you could only unhook when standing directly in front of the survivor which the killer could block by standing there (aka where the term "face camping" originated from)

So the expectation in this hypothetical world would be that the killer would only slug people. So if a killer wanted to be toxic, they would put survivors on the hook, despite the fact this is an intended game mechanic.

You understand what I'm saying now?

Besides that point, what exactly would we equate to the team being
slugged and left to bleed out? No hooking after, just to bleed for
minutes?

Sure but don't pretend like this is what I was talking about lol

This has nothing to do with trying to win the game. If you're gonna give me a "gotcha, it is how it's used" over this I am going to sigh, this is the kind of argument people make fun of redditors for.

Also it's not even possible anymore since the abandon feature exists.

it's just competitive games in general but DBD is worse for it coz it's one of those games where in my opinion is easier to win with the new OP than it is in other games coz it's assymetric, so a lot of people are overcompensating via this and get really really upset when they lose.

I call it Hero shooters for people who can't play Hero shooters LMAO

This has nothing to do with trying to win the game.

Sigh all you want but that's my point. People using "valid" tactics in ways to **** off others. People are using these tactics in such a way where it's not to really progress the game, just to tick off the opponents, this is a fact. What do we call it? It's not banned or cheating, but if you're not finishing the job when you easily could, what are you doing? Why are you doing? Also the abandon feature doesn't really remove people doing it does it?

Besides that this:

It only depends on how it's used because people have equated it with toxicity

Kinda seems like your talking that all tunneling or Slugging is only toxic because people equate it to being toxic. Yet it can be used both "responsibly" for lack of better words and "toxicly" also for lack of better words.

And this:

So you can upset people by just playing the game the way it was designed.

Kinda confirmed it. Its not mutually exclusive, being in the game and being toxic. Both can be true.

Also the abandon feature doesn't really remove people doing it does it?

Once again, this is exactly what I'm talking about.

Yes, it did. The abandon feature completely killed 4 man bleedouts. You can't do it anymore, it's literally impossible, the survivors will just leave once all four of them are on the ground. Unless they WANT to get bled out for some reason, but the reason bleeding the whole team out was toxic is because it was just abusing the fact survivors couldn't do anything to stop it, the killer had already won, there was no reason to do it except to be mean.

It's similar to all remaining living survivors sitting on the exit gate refusing to leave. There is no reason to do that except to be mean. The killer can force them out unlike 4-man bleedouts, but it's not an action that's done to win the game.

People are still 4 man slugging because the no hook playstyle exists and is extremely effective. There are killers who do it because of this and because they want to annoy the survivors, but if there wasn't a community stigma against it, it could never be done to annoy the survivors.

Slugging for pressure and tunneling progress the game and get you closer to winning, they are not inherently toxic. The only reason it's done to be toxic is because the community decided it was toxic. If there was no community stigma against doing it, it could never be done to be toxic, similar to how it's never toxic to hook someone.

Do you understand now?

People get mad tilted at dbd.

It is a super frustrating game, especially when you're on a losing streak. Goes double for killer.

Players absolutely hate the tactics the other side need to employ to win so it breeds super bad attitudes.

It's not all doom and gloom though. I have met a few nice people on dbd.

Yeah, I play primarily on PSN and I have my messaging set to friends only, and as a rule I never accept friend requests form people I don't know (so anyone runs into me and tries and gets no response, don't take it personally).

I play in a pretty benign way, but sometimes I will get absolutely spammed by friend requests after a match. The idea of some unhinged person actively crashing out because they know that I will never hear/see what they have to say amuses me; they're just left malding into the void lol

A person can really insulate themselves pretty well if they want.

exactly people be peopling and that’s why mine is locked down too. Problem is it works across the board for all games, and some users want the ability to chat with strangers from other games outside of DBD bc their communities are better; which is understandable. Maybe a disable external profile access in DBD would be something to look at for all systems. Ppl ask for it a lot.

Yes, it did. The abandon feature completely killed 4 man bleedouts. You can't do it anymore, it's literally impossible, the survivors will just leave once all four of them are on the ground.

And yet people STILL slug everyone AND don't bother hooking everyone till they're bots. I don't abandon on principle, yes that is a me problem, yet it shows me a lot of intentions of people. People still try to do this and for what?

There are killers who do it because of this and because they want to annoy the survivors, but if there wasn't a community stigma against it, it could never be done to annoy the survivors.

The stigma comes from the fact that it's annoying survivors because they can't do anything. The stigma to the tactics didn't come till killers kept being toxic with it (bar the sore losers who always exist).

Slugging for pressure and tunneling progress the game and get you closer to winning, they are not inherently toxic.

And this is where we said that it depends on how it's used...

The only reason it's done to be toxic is because the community decided it was toxic.

…And this is where your incorrect. Now why was the above abandon feature for 4 man slugs added again? Because people kept Slugging everyone and not bothering to hook them. Before that feature was added what was the point of this bleed out?

If there was no community stigma against doing it, it could never be done to be toxic, similar to how it's never toxic to hook someone.

This is basically saying to me that "it's only toxic if we say so". That's basically saying "words are whatever we want them to mean".

This game boils the blood, and attracts people who can't control themselves.

I love this community. And i love it's silly unwritten rules.

In League of Legends it's completely okay to proxyfarm as Singed. In Dbd that behaviour would be considered a warcrime.

The fact you're fighting me this hard on trying to defend this game's silly made up unwritten rules is why this game is so hostile.

Well, considering your practically defending people using things to make others miserable, i think ima keep fightin (also im very very bored and cant sleep).

If everyone understood that tunneling was part of the game, tunneling someone because of their name would not be seen as any more unusual than hooking someone because of their name.

So you realize I can make that sound really horrible correct? Idk if you know this but Bubba used to have special face cosmetics for each of the 4 original survivors. They don't exist anymore, care to guess why?

Moving on from that sentence. What I see is that you think that the whole mass of players is conditioned like a dog to see these as toxic which is false. To tie into my point:

But if you tunnel someone, you might get asked why you tunneled them, because that person has been conditioned to perceive tunneling as a personal attack.

Because maybe they wanna know if they made a mistake somewhere? Or maybe they were targeted before and want to see if theres a common cause? Definatly more reasons than simple conditioning. If someone decided to tunnel me explicitly and in the endgame said something along the lines of "You shouldn't be a rulebreaker"…gee i might take that abit personally if they don't explain. Or maybe even if they do if the explanation boils to "i don't like your name". If IM conditioned, its due to past experiences where its been proven that sometimes, they wanna make it personal.

If you took someone who never played DBD before, explained the basic rules, and sat them in the killer role, their first instinct is going to be to tunnel.

Ya know, funny enough I did do this long ago. They didn't tunnel on first instinct, they infact left the hook to look for others. Now, idk why they didnt (kinda proud looking back) but all i did was give advice after the trial for them. Maybe it was because it would have been impractical to do, maybe due to personality, its a bit late to ask. Never brought up tunneling or camping (though didn't need to for that as they'd be bored sitting at a hook) till once they asked about it from a salty survivor. They're not conditioned, as far as I figure they simply don't care too.

This is why this game's community has such a bad reputation.

…Certainly not the whole death threats, bming, and other things, nooooo…

So when someone tries survivor for the first time right and they're left on the dirt for most the match then get told somethin stupid what do you think goes on in their head? They see how (in this case) slugging is bad because they did nothing for most the match and get mocked for trying to play the game (which again they barely could). This then leads to what?

So you realize I can make that sound really horrible correct? Idk if you know this but Bubba used to have special face cosmetics for each of the 4 original survivors. They don't exist anymore, care to guess why?

Yeah. He camped and tunneled. Because the community treats camping and tunneling as a personal attack/form of BM, people were able to use those as tools to harass others and the message was clear.

This is why I keep bringing up hooking. Nobody regards hooking as a personal attack. If the Leatherface just hooked people, nobody would notice anything amiss at all, because hooking is not seen as a personal attack.

Moving on from that sentence. What I see is that you think that the whole mass of players is conditioned like a dog to see these as toxic which is false.

Yes they are.

Because maybe they wanna know if they made a mistake somewhere?

No. They want to know why the killer targeted them. Nobody asks this question in endgame chat thinking they're going to receive constructive criticism of their gameplay. If they did do something to invite it, and you answer them, they're not going to listen.

Ya know, funny enough I did do this long ago. They didn't tunnel on first instinct, they infact left the hook to look for others.

You misunderstood what I meant. I meant if given two targets to pick from, the killer will naturally pick one that is closer to death. If the survivor gets unhooked in front of them, the killer will naturally choose the more vulnerable target, which is the unhooked person. I didn't mean people will just camp the hook and tunnel immediately, I meant they would have no reservations against it.

…Certainly not the whole death threats, bming, and other things, nooooo…

Why do you think this happens so often? THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO CONVEY.

Sabotaged the hook? Personal attack.

Flashlight blinded? Personal attack.

Tunneled? Personal attack.

Camped? Personal attack.

Slugged? Personal attack.

If someone is frustrated and feels attacked, they're going to lash out. It's not a defense of elevating it but it would happen less if people didn't treat regular game actions so personally.

Yeah. He camped and tunneled. Because the community treats camping and tunneling as a personal attack/form of BM, people were able to use those as tools to harass others and the message was clear.

This is why I keep bringing up hooking. Nobody regards hooking as a personal attack. If the Leatherface just hooked people, nobody would notice anything amiss at all, because hooking is not seen as a personal attack.

Here you go, happy reading

So if said leatherface ONLY hooked a specific survivor and let everyone else go…that survivor wouldnt see it as a personal attack because of?……..

Yes they are.

Your entitled to your beliefs…but i feel the obligation to point out its wrong. I mean, I only see specific forms of tunneling, slugging and camping toxic, not the whole thing, i can probably list atleast 5 others who are similar, and id bet that theres a good number here on the forum who don't see all tunneling and slugging toxic. Juuuuuuuuust throwing that out there.

You misunderstood what I meant.

But thats not what you said.

If you took someone who never played DBD before, explained the basic rules, and sat them in the killer role, their first instinct is going to be to tunnel. 

People have reservations about that more than conditioning. Those who play both sides know what it feels like when they were tunneled and in turn dont want to inflict that unto random undeserving strangers. That would be called empathy. Besides that, reasonable people (emphasis on reasonable) aren't going to be spewing toxicity for something like being unhooked in front of the killers face (towards the killer anyway). People WILL do so when said killer does something like dropping a chase across the map just to go get them.

Why do you think this happens so often? THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO CONVEY.

Not really. What you are conveying is "These tactics are in the game and therefore can never be toxic" and "Its only toxic because we keep calling it that", the first is false while the second ends in the previous "words wont have meaning" thing. I keep pointing out how these things could be used as personal attacks. It isnt always a attack, but it can and has been used as such.

Because it still seemed to me like you still don't think these tactics could be toxic depending on how it's used. You seem to think that everyone thinks they're toxic because that's what everyone has been told to think while not thinking about the person themselves. It's like reverse order to me. Now, I could be wrong, but nothing you've said proves to me otherwise. Look:

Yeah. He camped and tunneled. Because the community treats camping and tunneling as a personal attack/form of BM, people were able to use those as tools to harass others and the message was clear.

The community treats camping and tunneling as personal attacks because of things like that. You make it seem like the community treats is as toxic therefore people do things like this.

you're just trying to get me to say that it's possible to do things in the game to be toxic. Like it is in every game. The problem is that all of your examples have nothing to do with winning the game.

And yet...

4-man bleedouts could only occur after the killer had won, it had nothing to do with winning the game. The Leatherface example you gave involves the Leatherface player deliberately throwing the match, it would have nothing to do with winning the game.

This is why they can be toxic. These things still happened. Would it have killed the killer to hook them after Slugging them all? Would it have killed the leather faces to play normal? Yet they didn't. They used the tactics in the game to be toxic. The context infact does matter.