Hens Jason Kill streak
Comments
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I personally don't believe Skill Expression is an objectively good thing simply because once a player is good enough that skill isn't a limiting factor, they effectively break the game. Case in point: Blight 2k winstreak.
How would I solve it? It'd be a vastly unpopular change for sure, but she needs to be reworked and lose parts of her identity. Its the only way, doesn't mean it'll happen though, since the chances of running into a good Nurse are very slim.If we are going to balance with the idea that skill triumphs all, why do perks on the survivor side that only get value if you are skilled at the game get nerfed? The answer is because something taking skill doesn't make it balanced, to the point where BHVR flat out nukes or reworks a perk entirely.
This never seems to get applied to killer though.
Examples: Dead Hard, Made For This, Spine Chill, Flash Bangs, Cross Examination, CoH etc.-6 -
Interesting, Nurse and Blight have over 1k kill streaks. I hadn't really followed at the time and I'm curious what metas may have enabled it.
One thing is for sure, a skilled player with 10k hours does add another level.
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I can understand that ive been around for a long time too but I've been of the mindset is that her kit can't be fixed with simple nerfs or tweaks it's a core design issue sure we can nerf her to make her less played by people but that's not going to fix her fundamentally
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Honestly, it's kind of surprising that not many other people are talking about this, considering how many people say the game is killer sided based on win streaks.
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Thats also a terrible balance mentality. "The skull merchant treatment" is a terrible practice. We shouldnt be nerfing something in the hopes that its so terrible no one will pick it. BHVR is becoming king of putting things on the back burner to fix later. Remember knotted rope was a case of "well nerf it heavily for now so we can fix it later"? That was in 2024...
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its being downvotes because these people dont want to admit that most survivors suck at the game just like most killers do so when we have this horrible matchmaking and a really good player it causes large streaks due to that. also a comp unrestricted tournament was done and survivors won every match because survivors perks are insanely broken when you have coms to use them together and is why perks are banned in comp due to them being so broken but needing alot of game knowledge to use well hence why the average player sucks with them.
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eruption, call of brine, pain res, pop, knock out, franklins etc. please know your history before you say its only ever one side.
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Matchmaking in a 1v4 is naturally gonna be skewed unfortunately, especially when BHVR wants to keep MMR very...loose. The survivor side is constantly having a hodgepodge of skill levels on the same team while your single killer doesnt have a teammate who CAN be the weak link. By default of being a "team" of 1, the killer side will always have stable team while your soloQ teammates could be drastically different skill lvls from 1 match to the next.
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Yeah, the downside to Calm Spirit was an interesting choice. The scream interaction does cause unforeseen issues.
This issue with breaking a totem being heavily guarded goes back several years. Funny how old lessons have to be relearned. At least now Ruin doesn't have the teeth it had back then. As long as you spread out across multiple gens, Ruin doesn't play the pivotal role like it used to.
A three gen around the totem would cause a challege but the same could occur with a Trapper with a well placed trap.
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rip devourgorgon
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Where are these supposed people who are saying that hundred plus wins on survivor are good and healthy for the game? You're having to construct a strawman argument because nobody is making it just so you can say that both sides are at fault. Neither should exist.
But one of them is very, very rare because it requires so much more effort, practice, coordination, and skill, not to mention an entire group of four people. The other requires far far less, impacts four times as many players at once, and is easily imitatable to very great efficacy even by those with far less skill. Both situations should be removed from the game. But at the same time, one is about a hundred times more prevalent, impacts far more players negatively, and is much more replicable by any jackass who wants to do this crap.
Post edited by ArcT on0 -
Yeah true re trapper, I remmeber some matches when I saw him more often, I'm basically running:
to counter it right now in my solo Q matches, at least until these builds die down. Calm spirit being completely obliterated by thrill is the main issue though.
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If you wipe out skill expression, what's the point of even having human opponents. Just have AI killers and call it a Co-op PVE. You can make it as unbalanced as you want then cuz the AIs arnt complaining, lol. Its the high skill expression that brings ppl to the game to begin with. Seeing clips of deathslinger shooting through a chain link fence makes ppl wanna try it themselves. No one comes into this game going "I wanna run in circles in a predictable way 3 times before getting hit by a pallet". If you wanna strip out the skill expression... just strip out the player too.
As far as your winstreaks goes... thats what happens when you have no skillbased matchmaking. The high tiered players would bully pubs in quick play on any game. We just ONLY have the quick play unlike other games.
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I mean this is pretty much what Hens is suggesting on his streams. He says that full hex builds are lose-lose situations for the survivors regardless of how they play it. If anything I would say this is the likely outcome to the Jason debate. There is no way they are giving a big license a significant nerf so soon. Hexes are probably on the chopping block.
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People confuse something being overpowered with skill expression. Putting 200 hours on Nurse and consistently stomping survivor teams with 1000s of hours isn't skill expression. Working within the limitations of a killer's power is a skill. Outplaying survivors that have actual counterplay options vs "turn your brain off and hope she misses" is more skillful than mastering a power that breaks the game.
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Mashed Broccoli getting ratio'd in here and going strong T_T
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I was just replying to the guy saying he doesnt think skill expression is a good thing.
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I mean, guy who literally play the game for a living destroy pubs, what is new? Jason isn't weak by any means, but people are panicking like he's Blight 2.0... Deputy Badge is busted, tho.
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193+ streak has been done on every killer, just so you know. There always has been a significant gap between top DBD players and the average one.
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people hate the truth more than anything these days. The same people downvoting me because it’s not a survivor sided opinion has mass upvoted me several times before when i said survivor sided things.
I get it from both sides, being unbiased means you don’t make friends here.
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What truth, people are just speaking their opinions, your assumptions people are "Survivor sided" is the issue, killers are even speaking in this thread.
You just can't have a back and forth discussion, that's all there is to it.
If you don't like that, then boohoo-1 -
the problem is most discussions will be survivors dominated because there are just more survivors and opinion that favor the many will get more support its just how humans are.
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When some posts in here say “its only survivor perks getting nerfed what about killer perks” and i list several perks that have either been nerfed or gutted and that post which contains factual information that isn’t based on opinion is downvoted it isn’t me that can’t handle back and fourth discussion.
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This is a nothing burger because there is a lot of those "Survivor players" who also play killer, I keep seeing this but a lot of the active members of this forum play both sides.
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What about the countless "Survivor sided" event posts since the Black Banquet started? All the new accounts made and new threads spammed…?
There is nothing wrong with you talking about perks you want to get help, but this is about Jason.2 -
when i said posts i meant specifically in this topic not forum wide.
when i corrected someones list of things they got wrong about jason’s kit because it’s obvious they never played jason i still got down voted. Again people don’t like the truth. It isn’t me being unable to carry fourth a discussion.2 -
I think you dismissing valid points compared to correcting is night and day to me…
On my end I was personally trying to highlight just how much he does on such a short CD, especially compared to other killers.
Do I think he should lose everything? No, not at all. His synergy with certain builds needs looked at, even the people doing this win streak are saying it's a lose-lose situation for survivors.
Like how you corrected I missed an addon mention at the end of one of the points, I corrected that with an edit as you pointed it out coz I typed it quickly.
When asked what his downsides are, as someone who plays him often, you never gave an answer, something like that can really help paint a picture of feedback to whoever is reading it to foward to the team. At least in my opinion. I was wanting to understand you more.-2 -
The funny thing is, I was being dead serious. Im playing some warframe tonight, which is a game where a team of 4 gets to use the most busted OP stuff to just bully AI enemies that are very predictable. No one cares about balance here, lol. You also have other party games like Phasmophobia that is even a horror coop game. If you WANT an opponent who doesnt show skill expression, get an AI to do it. Being a human player without a way to express skill just feels like a humiliation ritual and no one wants that. AI doesnt care if it has that role.
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Hens winstreak is a result of three factors:
1.) Survivors refuse to learn the counter play for Jason in general. Every other thread is a variation on "OE is busted nerf it!"
2.) Its a strong hex build that you can't really dismantle without coordinated effort. I'm not talking perks. I mean the second Jason shows himself and starts a chase, all 3 survivors need to be on a hex.
3.) This is, arguably, the biggest factor. Hens has so many hours in this game that he should absoultely be wrecking most average players. Its the spiders george issue, but in real life.-7 -
We joke, but a mode like this would be really helpful for newer players LOL
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If you ran best add ons and perks and tunnel you can win with half of the roaster pretty much 200 games and more in a row. I tested it and played Twins and had over 200 wins but it was insanely boring and I got tired of them for very long time.
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3 survivors must escape you're thinking of a solo escape streak which people usually only do when the que times are insanely long
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- There is no counterplay that's kinda why people don't like him. Crouching around doing nothing to progress the gamestate is not real counterplay.
- Requiring everyone to be in a swf to have a chance really shows how stupidly broken Jason is.
- Statistically speaking it's improbable for anyone to be consistently winning for this long, if Jason is not broken as ######### then the streak should have ended a long time ago.
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The counterplay to Jason is understanding map spawns and cutting sharp corners in chase.
Legitimately when he's in omnipresent evil, look around you and figure out where he could potentially appear then using that knowledge, plan where you will go if he appears there.
I'll give you an example, let's say you're doing the generator in the top floor of the Garden of Joy building. There are only 2 places he can really appear there - the window, which would be your main escape route otherwise or the nearby breakable wall. Realistically, 9/10 times A Jason will pick the window to force you into a worse position.
So, what do you do? Stay on the gen for a bit then if you think he's coming for your gen - prerun away from the window or alternatively walk away from it then start crouch walking away once you've cut line of sight. You either get a headstart on him appearing at the window or you stealth out the jumpscare and force him to search for you. Either way, you waste his time
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Skill expression is good in moderation, but making things broken because they're hard to pull off is a bad design habit and horribly overdone in this game.
Getting shot through a tiny gap, the dash killers 360ing around a loop might be exciting on the killer side but it gets old really fast on the survivor side and I'm tired of having uneven clarity on mechanics. I don't play survivor to get clip farmed by someone who's spent 3000 hours labbing out their killer power.
And yes, ultimately true balance would be boring, that's how it goes, but in a game where one side is the power role, the 'rule of cool' design is equally as boring imo.
Henry was a nice release because while his power can be oppressive if the player is good, it is very readable and he doesn't feel overloaded.
Jason is a giant step backwards, he can't get balanced soon enough.1 -
So… again you aren't really getting what I'm saying. The reason why people don't like him is because there's no counterplay. Seriously even in your example the only thing you came up with was be psychic and magically know he's coming for your generator specifically because there's no tells on if he's coming for you. Like, I'm open to hearing counterplay but being psychic is not a viable strategy.
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Didn't OnePumpWillie do a 200+ winstreak with Trapper of all Killer? Does that mean Trapper needs a nerf? Of course not.
Winstreaks in DBD would be more indicative of a Killer's strength if there weren't strategies that can almost remove skill expression and mitigate the lack of strength on any Killers (tunnelling, camping, slugging for 4k etc). The only difference the Killer's strength does is change how often the Killer will have to rely on those strategies to consistently win against skilled players/a decent SWF.
I'm not saying Jason couldn't use a few tweaks, but he's not broken and nerfing him into the Shadow Realm isn't the way to go.
Post edited by Skillfulstone on-4 -
Don't nerf killers or killer perks based on what the top 0.1% of players can do. That's not fair because of bad matchmaking, and it's not realistic to judge comp level killer play.
But balance survivors and survivor perks based on what the top 0.001% of players can do because it's unfair to force killers to have to play against unreasonable things like that with such poor matchmaking and they're broken.
Different week, same tired song.
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… Trapper does need a nerf in certain aspects of his kit and buffs in others, it's impossible to lose on him with the right build and at worst you get a two kill. Also you are kinda proving my point by not even trying to disprove my comment about how the only counterplay to Jason is being psychic.
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