Why the Jason hate?
Genuine question. I'll admit first off, I haven't gotten a lot of Jasons in my lobbies. If any. But, after playing him a lot I feel like I have a good idea on how to counter him. And I've faced survivors who genuinely can just deny you a hit for most the game with the spear. Ones who abuse your limited time as a 4.6 killer before going 4.4.
I've heard that he makes the game play a lot slower. Which I can see as boring. But idk, if you wanna troll him in his teleport just stand a good distance away from any pallets and windows if you can and let him see you. By no means am I saying Jason is a weak killer btw, but I think his power level is a little too hyped. He can be very punishing and rng heavy. Sometimes he gets 3 reloads nearby, sometimes all he has is a single hook spike for 3 connected jungle gyms. With how tiny the projectile is, its easy to make him miss most of the time. He relies mostly on prediction shots than anything else.
Anyways, my point isn't "if you don't like jason ur bad". More so I'm trying to understand why people struggle so hard against him and why they don't like him.
Comments
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For me its not the character, its how certain players are playing him
Chase for 12 seconds back to OE, chase for 12 seconds back to OE , chase for 12 seconds back to OE
If he had a longer cooldown so he cant just go back into OE so damn often I would find him more enjoyable to verse and will say I enjoy chase / spear play Jason players who are not spamming OE what feels like every chance they get.
That or make him visible during OE in some form so the survivors have info while hes in OE if we want him to be able to use so often.5 -
He's overstuffed. He's five killers rolled into one and has power crept half the roster. OE's cooldown is too short, free haste makes 4.4 pointless, KI is excessive on a killer with that much free info, an add-on that gives free gen regress for existing is idiotic, and his ability to two tap you off-hook is egerious.
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I think part of it is as @cogsturning said, he power creeps a lot of the roster, essentially being as good or better at everything than any other comparable killers with little in the way of weaknesses. He has some of the best map traversal in the game, yet also is arguably stronger in chase than chase-only killers such as Huntress. Yes Huntress has multiple hatchets, but she has to stop and find a locker to do a relatively slow reload animation, while Jason 1. Can easily reload mid-chase 2. Even if there isn't somewhere to reload he can go OE, instantly reload and catch up again 3. Doing this refreshes his "limited" 4.6 speed, which in reality lasts for almost half a minute, making him essentially a 4.6 killer (go out of OE, get a hit, go back into OE, reload, go out of OE, down) and finally 4. I'm pretty sure between his height and the angle of his spikes he can actually throw spikes over things other killers like Huntress can't. Again, this is all while having a super oppressive map presence, traversal, and even stealth and info (screams and KI) ability.
I think the other part is the Hex: Jason meta, which is pretty overpowered. Because Jason is able to speed around the map while completely invisible (besides some grass moving) and for some reason he is able to see survivors on Hex totems, he's the most effective killer in the game at defending Hexes with Thrill of the Hunt. It also makes it easy to travel across the map to put Pentimento in place even if they get past Thrill, Ruin and Blood Favor or whatever else.
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And you don't like him very much that dastardly bastardly coward!
/thread
I think it honestly comes down to preference. I love to play and verse jason, because he cuts down the most boring thing in the game for me: distance. Other people feel different about several parts of his kit and i hope my dear devs will rebalance him to make some of them happy.
In turn a certain unnamed crayon collector/enjoyer shall be adjusted too as i pray at least.
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He just isn't fun to play against. Overtuned ranged attack and insane traversal that give loads of info with effectively no cooldown. Plus his addon kit is actually brokenly good.
I'm not a fan of crouch walking everywhere during his power and trying to break 3 gens against him
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He is yet another overdesigned killer much like Dracula and Lich who have an answer to everything which makes outplaying them unrewarding.
There's nothing interesting about hoping a player is bad to actually engage with the game.
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It’s two things for me: 1) he’s overtuned in several aspects and basically a better version of several other killers, making those killers pointless to use anymore (at least from a relative killer strength perspective); 2) his design actively discourages killer/survivor interaction, making matches against Jason usually last much longer than typical matches and extremely boring.
The only killer I find more unfun to go against is Ghoul, but not by much.
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I wouldn't call it hate - at least from my own perspective.
He is just extremely boring to go against, because the counterplay is stupid. Like, who exactly thought it is a good idea to design a killer where freaking Urban Evasion is a decent and valuable counter perk…
Plus his spear hitbox combined with ping is "interesting" to say the least.
And I just never really liked the franchise as a whole. Friday the 13th is one of the worse franchises of horror, to me it has not a single point against stuff like Hellraiser, Halloween, Alien or Texas Chainsaw Massacre. The classics of the 70s/80s. But that is just a personal opinion.
And as many others already said - on top of the points above he is just completely overloaded by design.
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I don't want to dislike him...being able to distract him easily is nice I dont mind showing some initiative but games seem to devolve into Chicken where he just plays chess, like he may chase me a bit and realize "oh this guys using funny Nic Cage perk I'm never chasing him again" now he just holds his gens and if he jump scares me he'll just go "oops wrong guy" and immediately turn tail.
this guy is the new skull merchant and is completely acceptable but super saiyan m1 killer Skull Merchant 2 isn't it kinda bothers me
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I mean in petty terms it probably has something to do with the fact that he was released in mid June and I have played exactly FIFTY FIVE MATCHES AGAINST HIM. Yes, I am being specific, yes I have a spreadsheet, don't @ me.
But other than that he's not fun to play against. He's supposed to be a 4.4 killer but because he gets haste coming out of OE and OE is endless and has basically no cooldown, he is functionally a 4.6 killer who is also a ranged killer who can reload his projectile three times faster than any other ranged killer (all of whom are 4.4).
Also his basekit has more info gathering than most killers have with a full perk build.
But what annoys me the most about him is OE. Sure, other killers have a speed mode similar like Spirit—but she doesn't get visual indicators of a survivor who is doing anything but running. Other killers can teleport such as Xenomorph or Animatronic—but they both have very limited set locations they can teleport or move to, not every window, vault point, actual palette or empty space where a palette could hypothetically be.
So the only effective counter to him being in this mode—which is endless, he could in theory stay in there for a full hour until a game server shut down—is to crouch walk. Because standing still? Jason knows. Walking? Jason knows. Cleansing a totem? Jason knows. Repairing a gen? Jason knows. Crouching but not moving? Jason knows.
It turns into a game of chicken with Jason's staying in OE endlessly until some poor survivor gives in, gets on a generator and in less than three seconds is injured and in chase—usually impaled shortly after.
Also I don't like that he has an extra free basekit mori, and several of his add on's are stupidly powerful, to the point that they should count as 5th and 6th perk slots.
But hey that's just me.
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For me, it's mainly how slow and deliberate you have to play to effectively counter him. OE does too much when you factor in his add ons.
As others have said, Hex: Jason is a problem too. Although I think Thrill of the Hunt is the main problem. That perk isn't really compatible with modern DbD. Its effect made sense when there were far fewer Hex perks in the game.
Totem builds offer way too much game delay right now when Thrill is on play. Every totem is game delay regardless of its actual effect. And Pentimento means you may end up cleansing twice. That's an absurd amount of game delay when you factor in Thrill with a full Hex build.
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Overstuffed Kit.
He can do everything pretty well. In the hands of a good Killer player, you're cooked. You basically have to hope the player is bad at the game.
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tbf, Thrill is a modern perk. It's as old as pain resonance.
ok, that was years ago but I refuse to acknowledge Artist being ancient history
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I think the bulk of the issue is how people play him. Totem builds, etc etc. He has stupid add-ons, and is good for tunneling.
That being said I don't find his balancing to be an issue, I find his application an issue. Countering him is easy enough - spread four survs, hit gens. He enters OE, you don't stop. Burn those damn gens down while someone loops him. Repeat. Not so different from other killers.
The problem is that this forces Survs to play a specific way. They can't goof off, they can't play for fun, they can't run around for pallet/flash saves. Everyone has to commit to burning the gens down ASAP, and if they aren't good at looping they are doomed. This is just an amplified version of normal play at a low comp level, however not everyone wants to play that sweaty. Jason forces Survs to play sweaty, as his kit provides him with a level expression across the board. No real weakness. He's walking power creep.
He has counter play, but has no weakness, and that's an issue.
If that were all there was to him I'd argue with people about him not being OP. But his add-ons, and the way his kit can interact with some perk builds, as well as his application to tunneling, is an issue. It's just not an issue I know how to meaningfully fix. Tunneling is an issue period and has not been fixed. More and more killers being released are going to be better tunnellers, as BHVR needs to sell them and that's what sells. His add-ons aren't awful but badge needs to burn, it's silly on an A-tier killer to have a free regression mechanic.
Overall I think the issue with Jason boils down to the fact that he forces people to play as if it's a sweaty game one way or another. There's an us vs. them argument hiding in there given SWF's and the absolute vitriol with which people don't want to allow pre-made indicators in lobby, but the end result is just forced sweat. Which is a legitimate complaint on both sides.
I just don't see the current design for things going in any direction but this one, increasingly, as time goes on. So me complaining about it seems like a moot point.5 -
Instead of giving him a unique chase power he has a throwing weapon that you have to sometimes extract the object from your person like the last killer who released same time last year… recycle much BHVR?
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None of his actions are punishing or have a long enough cooldown. You can't easily tell where he will appear and the movement speed (not the haste) out of the vault location is far too quick. And the 'sensing' mechanic (footsteps and red mist) overrides all other existing tracking in the game, so has no counter in existing perks. He can miss the M2 and there is no fatigue before he can just M1. It's basically a long drawn out process that will result in everyone dying. I can't even remember escaping once to Jason.
Edit: There was one friendly Jason who let us all go
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