We need to talk about Shoulder The Burden

The only Issue I have seen mentioned about STB that I see as a legit issue is hook shuffling using multiple STB. (eg adam on 2 hooks meg takes 1 then you hook meg and she's at 2 then claud comes unhook then david comes unhook and everyone is on 1 hook) I have suggested not letting someone who has STB before to be STB but in return STB can be used for both your hook states.

Other then that perk is perfectly fine imo.

It was nerfed into the ground even before it released. It's amazing that people are still complaining about this perk when it's trash. Why the scream? Why the exposed? Why the yellow mark? BHVR wants everyone to know who shouldered so killers can then proceed to tunnel that person out the game. They went out of their to put unnecessary limitations on this perk.

I also took a break for a while, starting right after Shoulder was introduced and I've just come back in the last couple months. I am a survivor main so you can take my words however you want, but I've been playing a lot more killer lately and haven't had any issues. There have only been a couple of times that I have experienced multiple Shoulders in one game, and in my experience a good number of killers can take advantage of the exposed or, if you realize it will just keep happening, it's one of the rare moments I will camp a hook, even if partially. This might be due to me being able to win most games with my first kill at 7 hooks or more though, so I don't usually encounter the issue since pretty much everyone is hooked at least once.

Yes grass is green I know. If it had the double hook requirement, I could see it not needing a downside.

I could also see it having a downside to be a good thing. The guy who got shouldered is the weak link so you want the unhooker to be enticing to chase. Either way I don't have a prefrence, just something I thought about.

As someone who spreads hooks, I'd rather see STB than a multitude of other perks. Perhaps it's a strong perk against certain playstyles, but the same can be said for alot of other perks. For example, Distortion and Self Preservation would seem OP to those who run full aura builds, but to those of us who don't we barely notice them. Reassurance would be pretty hated by someone running an anti-heal build. I know a Henry main who loathes SB + Vigil lol and i get it. However you play your game, there's a perk/s that is guaranteed to piss someone off. It's the nature of the game. I don't think STB is a strong perk at all, but then it takes very little from the way I play. We need variety because otherwise everyone falls into line and ends up playing the same way, and that's boring asf.

The fact that a survivor can be hooked FIVE times and still not die feels outrageously absurd.

Why?

For this to happen that means there would have to be two people running StB and you to hook neither of them (or else they are just trading who is on death hook and taking exposed, which isn't actually helpful).

In my last 10 or so matches, I've seen this happen at least 4 times, and it's one of the least enjoyable parts I've had since returning.

You've had two uses of StB against you in 40% of your matches? That kind of sounds like it's doing exactly what it is designed for then.

We already have perks like DS and Off The Record, both of which are specifically intended to discourage tunneling while still allowing killers to secure kills through good decision making.

What is 'good decision making' that this perk prevents?

DS has noticeable problems at stopping tunneling and OTR was nerfed.

The biggest issue is that it completely changes the hook economy. The fact that survivors can effectively create "extra" hook states is super frustrating.

No extra hook states are created, they are traded around, and come with a risk of being exposed for an easy down.

It is basically taking one of the very few things killers can control in the game and throwing it out the window by giving it to survivors.

Both sides have plenty of things that they control, StB doesn't save that anymore than DMS changes survivors ability to control what gens they do.

And let's be honest, while it is true that some killers tunnel at the very first chance they get, most only do it when 1) survivors are toxic (e.g. teabag, flashlight click, etc.) or 2) they feel as though gens are flying by way too fast and they need to get someone out of the game to regain pressure, both of which are legitimate reasons.

How do you define a 'legitimate reason'? Because number 2 sounds like the classic 'I don't want to tunnel, and won't, as long as I'm winning'. The fact that sometimes the killer 'feels' like the survivors are winning seems like something that should happen in a game.

The only way you're hooking the same person 5 times is if you're hard tunneling.

Do you wanna talk about why you're hard tunneling?

Absolutely not, no. There is a HUGE difference between having death hook pressure or not, and teams that have shoulder can force you to be inefficient with your hooks with very few actual downsides, especially for killers that aren't immediately returning back to hook or who rely on M2s for chase and can't make use of the exposed - and thats ignoring the common use of vigil to reduce that exposed duration anyways.

Hooks aren't equal to eachother, having 4 hooks with no kill pressure - especially by the time you're down to 2/3 gens, which is very common for 4 hooks against more efficient teams - is a completely different gamestate from 1-2-1-0, and allows for survivors to play much more aggressively and efficiently because the chance at snowballing pressure is dramatically reduced.

To clarify, 1-2-1-0 is the total hook states on the team across 4 players, meaning you've gotten a second hook on any player over 4 chases, which is really, really normal gameplay. Heck, you can easily get 1-2-0-0 relatively early without tunneling if survivor 2 resets and just happens to be on an important gen you patrol by the time you finish your other chase.

Well of course shoulder isn't going to affect you if your playstyle is to do it to yourself every game??? Like, if you're at such a skill mismatch that you can consistently go out of your way to 4 hook your opponents without it causing significant macro issues for you, no amount of strong perks is going to save these people.

I just want to add when I say skill mismatch that isn't me saying you're rubbish or anything, and I hope it didn't come off as an insult. I've seen some pretty cracked players have skill mismatches like that against good teams, and DBD's matchmaking is…well, subpar even today, you wouldn't necessarily need to be 'low MMR' for this to happen to you.

The issue I have is that it's very strong effect, distributing hooks for 40s exposed while treacherous crows and weaving spiders cause permanent broken.

Treacherous crows and weaving spiders are broadly considered some of the worst designed perks in the game, so not a great subject for comparison.

→ Perk can be only used once per hooked survivor

I don't get why this would be a good idea.

StB exists to allow survivors to help out the team when the killer repeatedly goes for the same target. Whether that is 1, 2, or 3 other survivors that the killer is not pursuing, the perk should still have its affect. If the killer just keeps tunnel vision on a single target and it costs them the match because they refuse to adapt, and the survivors risked bringing multiple instances of this perk to counter just such a killer, that seems like the right trade off.