https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/472588/future-of-dead-by-daylight-forums
Game is survivior sided!
Comments
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I was able to do that once too at one time..Keep going with the 4ks. That scoreboard will change and you will see a lot more variety in your ratios.
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Killer mains say unbalanced because they think the game should balanced around as it facing the world best team, and still has 50% winrate against those, anything less and then survivor sided.
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You must be on Super Weenie Hut Jr-MMR. According to the best players in the world (Forum Killer Mains who play on special Servers with only good players), the game is heavily survivor-sided. And always the most survivor-sided it has ever been.
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doc is OP and needs nerfs...shocking
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Poor 10k+ hours surviviors I went against… still on newbie mmr
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So you still dont know that "time-played" doesnt mean youre good?
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While I do see what your saying I do want to say .. "Survivor mains" also expect it to be balanced around the best killers?
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Add back actual strict mmr so I can face real players instead of ones with sub 1 hour playtime (actually happened to me yesterday). The real problem this game has is good survs have 0 incentive to waste their time on loading up a match of solo queue where johnny, rick, and todd last 20s in chase so you lose no matter your skill level.
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… People actually state this unironically
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The game is defienetly survivor sided if survivors are good. Even against higher tier killers. Main issue of asking if the game is balanced is the variety the game offers. If you run in full swf with 3 other survivors you know will be doing gens and are good at looping you will most like win way more than lose. If you are in solo q with survivors that don't do gens, last 5s in chase, you will most likely lose a lot of the games. Next issue is the uniqueness of each map. Each game on the same map spawns different pallets, different gens, different totems etc. and it all plays role in what side is favored more. You can end up on Game which is one of the hardest map for the killer as Pig but you face full swf who are not very good and just play to have fun with chill builds and you win, then you end up on Trickster's Delusion which is one of more killer-sided maps and you face full swf who play seriously, run all meta perks, go for bodyblocks, play safe around pallets etc.
For example…
You spawn on Badham with very bad pallet rng for the killer and you play Hag. Unless you pull out basement play you will 100 % lose against good players.
If you spawn on the exact same map with exact same rng as Ghoul, you have very high chance to win.
If you play against weaker team and you get quick two downs, pull of pain res, dms and grim… you will most likely win.
If you play against very good survivors and they pop 3 gens simulteanously because the spread on gens and you had bad first chase, unless you hard tunnel someone out or slug entire team, you will lose.
Of that speaking, low mmr is 100 % killer sided as survivors can't path properly, don't play effeciently etc. Mid mmr is more about rng, picked killer and level of survivor play. High mmr is without doubt heavily survivor-sided no matter who and what perks you play.
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It is when both sides are of somewhat equal skill level and trying to win.
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I like that no matter how many nerfs survivor gets the game will eternally be survivor-sided to some people. Multiple survivor meta perks got the hammer and the 5s BT cut has made tunneling go back to being super easy. They could make it so survivors can only walk for 10s after getting off a gen and this crew will just be like, "You just have to prewalk to a pallet skill issue" while continuing to cite an invisible number they make assumptions about as defense.
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Doesn't spending 10k hours doing ANY stuff makes you better?
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The game is neither killer nor survivor sided, it is swf-sided. SWF rolls killer, killer rolls solo q
-18 -
Anyone who says DBD is survivor sided is living in the past. Survivor is miserable now. DBD is SWF sided. And BHVR balances around SWFs even though solo is the majority.
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Ultimately, now killer is the casual role if you like to win a lot.
Survivor is the hardcore role, where you expected to lose most of the time.
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Sorry to be that guy, but this is not how it works.
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Everyone is going to have a different view of this based on their personal experience. If you’re consistently doing that well in your killer games, then yeah you’re going to think the game is very killer-sided. By the way, kudos to you for doing that well as a low-tier killer. Also kudos to you for backing up your opinion with your actual stats - a lot of people who claim the game is survivor/killer-sided never do that.
BHVR has to balance the game based on the full population stats and not just loud individual voices. The 60% target kill rate seems to be the sweet spot where killer and survivors queues are the most balanced. I remember super long survivor queue times during peak evening hours when the killer rates were lower. Now the wait to play survivor in the evenings is much more reasonable. I did notice that killer queue times were much longer than normal during the recent new killer releases and special events, but in the past few days the killer queue times seem to be back to normal as well.-4 -
Um, sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but that's exactly how it works. It's worked the same way for 1000s of years. 10K hours has always been the gold standard for mastery in any endeavor.
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That's a good a point and an evergreen thing. 'Broken' perks gets blamed for survivors being too strong, sometimes those perks are annihilated, and the talking point doesn't change.
To contrast that with killers, no one disagrees that Skull Merchant is down in the basement. If a killer gets nerfed, survivors don't seem to dispute that quite as much.
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I see what you did there 😉
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The 60% target kill rate seems to be the sweet spot where killer and survivors queues are the most balanced.Saying the game needs to be killer-sided to make a better game / keep reasonable queues / maintain the theme / etc. is one thing, just as long as its not the starting point on whether the game is killer or survivor sided.
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Which is why I play more killer than survivor nowadays. Why sign up to be someone else's ego trip when I can do the ego tripping myself? People just refuse to accept the role is eatting good right now. That's my issue.
Yeah like we've had strong killer after strong killer released so what is the source of the "survivor is strong right now" talking point certain player repeat over and over? It can't be the 15s BT anymore. It can't be SB and Vigil. Will they stop saying it if WoO gets nerfed? Resurgence? 5s BT? Longer gens? Slower gate opening? Or do these people think survivor is still super strong as long as a SWF of four perkless comp players can beat an average killer? It feels like if it's still possible for any survivor team to win in any situation then that means the role is strong.
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Me too! Let's appreciate that
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Inaccurate, as if skill is solely based on time input then every one should be a master at studying mathmatics, the language arts, the work they do as their main income.
Time spent means nothing unless your properly improving. A person playing the violin every night for years but only able to play one note does not make them a master at 10k.
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Insert Vsauce cue
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keep going you'll hit high mmr and then hit the wall
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I've always thought about it like an RPG boss fight.
- If you have a coordinated, skilled and properly equipped team that focuses on their objective, the killer is often in for a rough time, especially if they're not equipped to deal with that sweat. This is where the game is certainly survivor-sided and they have a good chance at beating the boss.
- If you have a bunch of SoloQs running meme or just off meta builds and/or not focusing on their objective, then the game isn't survivor-sided.
- If you have a killer going for a win streak using all the greasiest strategies especially on a top tier killer then the game is killer-sided. It's like taking on Emerald in Final Fantasy VII without being completely prepared.
- And everything in between.
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DBD is RNG-sided. End of story.
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This game hasn't been surv-sided for years at this point; that's not even an opinion, it’s a well-established fact, backed up by official statistics.
Anyone who refuses to face reality is merely exposing their skill issue, or is simply stuck in 2018 and keeps parroting the same old lines in an attempt to justify their bad games.
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In power level it is undeniable that a majority of the killer roster is worse than it is for survivors even with a strong set of perks. Average game wise it's a mixed bag unless you specifically 4 stack with the sweatiest stuff possible.
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The game is only survivor sided against coordinated swfs which are few and far between.
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Killer has always been the better role for winning only have to focus on yourself instead of 3 teammates of varying skill levels and people crying about swf every game were usually really bad. Now that a lot of the extreme scenarios you used to go against are gone it's way less frustrating and solo queue has only really gotten worse due to killer perk design.
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It's not neccessarily a skill issue. There are people in the forum with low hours who constantly cry about the upper MMR bracket they're probably not even in. Those ones are a skill issue. But the other half is high hour killer mains with 80%+ KRs who constantly say the game is survivor-sided. Those are just being disingenuous.
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No, that would be according to every comp-level tournament where they ban a TON of survivor perks and tactics and killers still don't stand a chance.
-9 -
Have you ever actually looked at the rulesets? Because a TON of killer perks and tactics are also banned, who is expected to win is highly dependent on the killer.
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Anybody who calls this game survivor sided in today's meta should post their match history and stats on killer. Just a quick screenshot. Like you did.
Even in the evening hours of NA regions, the killer queues are instant, sure, but survivor queues are not more than a minute at most. In the morning hours, we still have long killer queues. If this game was truly survivor sided, then there would be more survivors.
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In addition to what @FerrousFacade said:
1: The biggest restriction on killer is that they don't just get to play Nurse every trial. Yes, if survivors bring the best possible builds, and the killer doesn't, that would be a mismatch. But it shouldn't be surprise that an S tier survivor loadout would destroy a C tier killer setup.
2: Survivors (in most comp leagues) know the killer they are going to play on. If pub games let survivors know the killer they were going to face (and let them change their build) escape rates would skyrocket.
3: Killers do really well. I haven't watched season XI of DbDLeague, but looking back to the Winter Circuit tournament, going into the Grand Final they average 2.88 kills per game (72% KR) and 43.62% of the games ended in a 4k (these stats are visible at the beginning of the video for the Grand Final).
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Yeah but in general survivors have WAY harsher restrictions and they still come out on top 90% of the time. It's one of the biggest reasons why they use hooks to score points because if they based it off the killer winning it would be "who got a faster 1-2k"
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The idea of "here's 5 stomp games where I won the game is super killer sided" is silly, however that said the game has never been more friendly to killers than it is today.
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The game is inherently killer-sided by design, and balanced around a 60% killrate.
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I often ask people for their KRs when they cite Nightlight stats. I've yet to get any of those numbers, and the conversation generally ends there. Funny how that is.
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IIRC, there was also a no-holds-barred style tournament at one point, and it resulted in a surprisingly balanced outcome.
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Probably because their worst kill rates are likely sitting around 50%, and the best around 70% or even higher. Devs have made the game absurdly killer sided over the years. Nowadays, most killers are already capable of winning or at least drawing against 4 coordinated premades, and some solo queuers with optional wheel chat won't change that.
The agency remains on the killer player. That's why we have fewer and fewer survivor players. Personally, I have been on a break since jason's release, and I honestly haven't felt any desire to return. I have no desire to queue up and become an entertainment toy for my opponent whom the game intentionally favors. There's literally nothing in it for me. There are far better single-player new releases or multiplayer games that respect your time and effort spent. This game respects neither, but it often asks for your money and tries to get you to launch with login rewards.
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The question though how far the devs can push survivor players around?
As in is there a risk the game eventually collapsing because of imbalance?
I feel like survivor is there for killer entertainment without any agency, and getting worse by each new killer and rebalance as in constant survivor nerfs.
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The question though how far the devs can push survivor players around?
So far, the answer has consistently been 'a little further still'.
Though given that there's now rising complaints about killer queue times, maybe we'll finally get the anti-6.1.
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"IF survivors are good" is where you lost me because yeah? Good players should be rewarded with good results for their good play? Against high tier killers too if those killers play poorly being high tier doesn't guarantee a win if you suck.
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Have you considered the possibility that people might not care about whether they escape or not as long as they ensure their teammates do? Or just goof around with friends and don't care about the outcome?
I do what I can and often make plays that end up with me sacrificing myself so others can get out. An honourable death is its own reward, after all.
In my top 7 most played Survivors in Regular Trials (ranging from the nr. 1 having 340 hours of playtime and the nr. 7 having 52.8 hours), none of them have an escape rate above 45% 🤣. In fact, my highest is Aurora Stardotter with 5 hours of playtime and an escape rate of 56.67%.4 -
I believe that's all time playtime.
You might be in low MMR bracket, where will swing and miss a lot.Post your killer stats perhaps, if you don't mind.
What will you say to those who can't go above 30% escape rate? That they should not be playing the game?
About the perks… the thing is that not everyone wants to play meta perks and if you don't equip them, you will suffer a lot.
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