How to fix the hatch standoff
It's very simple to make the endgame more fair and funny for both parties. In a 4v1 game, when three survivors are dead, the last one has almost no hope to survive without the hatch, but the hatch standoff is very boring.
Here is the solution:
1) when there is only one survivor left and at least 2 gens done, the hatch opens and the killer loses the ability to see the remaining gens' Auras (and the scratch marks, if this results fair and balanced after testing it);
2) the killer can close the hatch, which disappears;
3) a new hatch spawns and opens elsewhere if the survivor repairs a new gen;
4) return to points 2 and 3.
In other words, the endgame would become a real challenge of cunning: the smartest player wins.
Comments
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The one major issue here is that it would take 80 seconds to fully repair a generator alone. In this time, a killer can very easily patrol all of the remaining generators and listen for one that's been worked on. This creates a stalemate where the survivor does not have a long enough window to actually finish a generator, so they likely end up hiding until they get an opportunity. You would end up with a very similar scenario to a hatch standoff, only instead of standing around the hatch they would be hiding around a generator waiting for an opportunity that will only come when the killer gets bored and gives up.
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What about allowing the "grab" mechanic if the killer is near the hatch and the survivor is as well.
At least then the survivor actually has to try to do objectives, rather than just 360'ing around the killer.
The hatch-standoff is by far the most dull way to end games.
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@Peanits The killer is not used to memorizing the position of the generators, because he sees them continuously. If this vision disappears, he will not be able to run from one Aura to another, but he will have to waste time searching for the gens, exploring the map palm to palm. For his part, the survivor can play cunning: start repairs in multiple generators, to make the killer believe he is around and induce him to a thorough search of the surrounding hiding places, while working elsewhere. Left Behind would become very effective in this scenario. Moreover, if it doesn't seem unbalanced, the killer could also lose the vision of the scratch marks, being thus forced to sharpen the sight. What do you think about it?
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Add a lever in the shack/top of basement in maps with no shack which you can pull and all gens are lit up and exit gates are powered up.
Everything lights up as if all gens were done but a notification of the lever being pulled is heard by the killer. You can now simply open an exit gate. You put everything on the line to slip away from the killer this once so you can open a gate and get out.
If you pull the lever the hatch will not spawn or open.
The idea is you as a survivor can sacrifice doing gens for flipping the switch (shack) to power the gates. You have no hatch, your only escape now is the 2 exit gates to open.
When killer sees you, will...well you know what happens.
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We don't need new ideas to solve the hatch standoff. McLean made a statement about how he would fix it (aura revealed, x seconds intense chasing etc) in a stream long time ago and it's so far the best idea I have heard. The issue is: devs are not doing it.
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@Entità I don't know how you play killer, but after a couple gens pop, I pretty much know where all the gens are without looking at their auras.... If survivors pop the gens and give the killer a 3 or 4 gen strat before there is only one survivor left.... There would be no way of that survivor could work on a gen for more than 5 seconds at a time without the killer knowing where they are.
If that survivor had to work on multiple gens.. meaning all the remaining gens, since focusing on only 2 or 3 would easily tip off to the killer where you are. This could make it a 10 minute ending to a 4 minute match.
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its simple like the ptb was way back then! enable us to close it .... and fix the requirements or end game things to do with it being closed ...
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@AshleyWB A lever in a known place? The killer could easily kill you in the basement, then. :(
@DwightsLifeMatters More Auras? Intense chases in Rotten Fields or Shelton Woods?
@TheBean Is "no gens' Auras and no scratch marks" a good scenario for you?
@dannyfrog87 Closing the hatch it requires balances for survivors.
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@Entità hmm... not really. One of the issues with the end game.. is having it come to an end, within a reasonable amount of time so it isn't boring for either side. You also don't want to make a situation that players can take advantage of, especially against weaker killers / players.
If that survivor is good, having no scratch marks could make it so they will never leave... maybe they will try and attempt getting gens done... maybe not.. maybe you killed their 3 SWF noob friends... and they want to teach you a lesson and hide for 10+ minutes at the end, since you can't track them. Unless you got whispers or something.
I don't know what the answer is really... but I don't want to trade one stand off for another.
You have no way of forcing that last survivor out of the game, until they want to leave.
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If killer closes hatch, it respawns in 30 seconds. Closing takes 6 seconds, giving survivor time to run. Can't close if survivor is in dying state. When hatch spawns a 3rd time, the survivor can see its aura for 3 seconds.
Personally, I have zero problems with the current mechanic. I either get them before the hatch, or they get the hatch. I never have a stand off. Life is too short for me to flex my ego in a meaningless video game.
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@TheBean Just today the last survivor can urban evade all the time, especially in dark maps.
@Warlock_2020 I could accept it, but some people would complain it's a free escape because the survivor does nothing to get the second hatch...
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@Entità yee. They can basically take a bad killer hostage really easy. So there needs to be a solution to wrap up the game in the end.
To me, I wouldn't want to have a solution which doesn't cause the match to wrap-up within a reasonable amount of time. If I had a 7 minute match, I don't want the end vs 1 survivor to last another 7 minutes.
Basically the final battle between killer and survivor comes down to the final chase. Gens to me don't matter anymore.. it is just the killer and survivor and who out plays who for end of the match. I just don't want it to last a boring 10 minutes.. 10 minutes of excitement is ok.. but not something that makes me want to DC and give up, cause that survivor can hide with impunity.
This is one of the reason I feel I need to have whispers all the time with my killers. I don't want to spend 10 minutes at the end, just to find David lurking around the edges of the swamp map looking for the hatch.
Same thing can happen with 4 survivors who open the gates, but don't leave and start looking around for extra points. Spending another 5 minutes wasting the killer's time. There just needs to be something that will start pushing the survivors out, rather than them feeling they can stay as long as they want.
I don't know.. I hope the Devs come out with their idea soon.. seems like they've been on it for awhile now.
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I think hatch closing should come back. Instead of instantly powering the gates, the survivor would get a +25 (or 50)% repair speed until they complete the gen which would then instantly open the exit gates.
That way even if the Killer closes the hatch, the Survivor still has a fair chance of escaping.
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Or:
5) The killer will not be greedy and will hit the survivor which will end a game that he won anyway.
And before anyone starts talking bs , I play both sides and never do standoff as killer and as a survivor I do gens if killer is camping around it.
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Why don't killer just get a kill option like Myers does when killer stands over the hatch it prevents hatch stand off and killer when standing over the hatch killer can see survivors in terror radius range in return if survivor is double the terror radius distance away they see killer standing over hatch (it stops hatch standoff, it stops sitting around a corner, it punishes killers who just sit over hatch, it allows survivors to do gens if hatch is being camped) my thoughts on how to stop the hatch standoff it may not be balanced but it stops hatch standoff, also if anyone says survivors can sit outside of terror radius for every 30 seconds of both killer sitting on hatch and survivor not doing a gen then terror radius increases by 8. (Affects only on the hatch and resets after gen is done)
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Why hatch was added in the first place?
When there are 2 gens done in game, 2 ppl dead on hooks, 1 is downed and ready for hook and 1 is roaming elsewhere - that means I did my job good and I well deserved to get my 4 kills. But instead of hooking 3rd person and hunt for last one - I need to slug (which is barely fun for him) cause otherwise 4th guy will slip away with free escape. And in most cases that 4th guy did literally nothing, no gens, no chases, just hiding somewhere.
For some reason when Survs do their job better than me and do all 5 gens without losing single person - I dont get free kill at any of them.
If hatch exists as free escape mechanics for survs and noone is going to remove that - add equivalent for Killer - instakill of first Surv he hits after all gens done. SImple as that - oneshot as if guy has exposed and kill without 1 hook requirement. It's gonna be pretty fair, isnt it? Can be added as new Status effect for Killer - Bloodthirst, for example.
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As the last survivor dies on the hook, the aura's of the the hatch is revealed. If killer gets there first, he closes the hatch, and instantly kills the survivor. If survivor gets there first, he cannot be grabbed and escapes.
Job done. RNG rules everything else so why not this. At least it will stop the damn 20 minute long end of matches when Claudettes sit in the corner crouched.
Yes, there are still a ton of things to ######### about with this solution, but it's way better than current and easy to implement.
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just make the animtaion for entering the hatch longer, so that a killer can still grab the survivor out of it even after the survivor got hit and he wiped off his weapon.
you should also eigther disable a dying survivor the ability to jump into the hatch, or give the killer the ability to grab them out of the animation aswell.
that solves it...
like, if the killer is camping the hatch, the survivor can do the gens. if the killer is patroling the gens, the survivor can escape through the hatch. if both reach the hatch at the same time, the killer wins.
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This solution can work only if 2 gens were done. If 3 or 4 were done - hatch will spawn when 2 ppl still alive, so they can find it prior to last hook, and while killer will be busy chasing 3rd guy to hook him up, last will be sitting on hatch. Also chased one can bring killer to other side of map - so killer wont be able to reach hatch in time.
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A lot of people have already mentioned the gen time and I agree that it would be far too long for a survivor to do it alone. I think it would be more fair if the killer couldn't close the hatch but rather the hatch would close its self after 3 minutes, doing a new gen would respawn the hatch. If the killer can close the hatch then they will most often win because of their fast movement speed so there isn't a lot of point
Thus, if the killer finds the hatch first the survivor can do a new gen with hope to escape. If the survivor does a gen then the killer now has to patrol the gens and the hatch and the survivor can slip through.
In summary I think this is only balanced when the killer does not control the hatch because they can close it and go for the kill straight away. The balance over the entire game is the killer multitasking all the gens, survivors and gates.
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@thatguyinktown Just being real here. If you're surviv9e and the Killer has already found the hatch and is there, they've got it, the games already over. Anything else is just delaying the game.
See how dumb that sounds? The hatch standoff right now is a 50/50. No one is wasting time that the other isn't, since both can chose to lose whenever they feel like it.
Also your "solution" solves nothing since strafing can be done as long as they want to.
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Btw. Though this isn't designed to solve the hatch standoff per say something like this might help the issue the hatch is trying to solve:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/56605/tunneling-and-death-efficiency-solution#latest
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Close one hatch.
Spawn another in 10 seconds.
Problem solved-
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The hatch as it is right now favors the survivor.
- If the killer finds the hatch first, it makes no difference, since they can't really do anything to it.
- If the survivor finds the hatch first, it's an easy escape that can range from "barely had to do anything" to "completely free".
- If the killer hits a survivor near the hatch, the survivor can jump in, risk-free.
- If the survivor decides to jump in, because the animation is so fast, a grab is very difficult.
- If the survivor decides to repair generators instead of waiting for the killer to make a move, the killer has to hope they're far enough away that they can get two hits in before the survivor reaches the hatch (which is borderline impossible on a standard map).
Under the best circumstances, the hatch standoff is a situation where the first player to do anything loses. Such a scenario is not fun.
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I love how everyone forgets about "left behind" perk. Just buff that perk up more >_<
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No. The survivor can end the hatch standoff just as easily as the Killer. The standoff only happens when BOTH the Survivor AND Killer camp the hatch
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I liked the idea of making it so the killer can close the hatch, but doing so finishes all remaining generators. That puts the ball in the killers court, but doesn't automatically give the killer the win. If the killer wants to close the hatch then the killer has to patrol 2 exit gates instead. Maybe it isn't a perfect solution, but it is better than what we have.
Alternatively, they could make it so when there is only one survivor left that the survivor gets 150% bonus repair speed. At least finishing gens might be a viable way out then. Even if a survivor can power out a gen in 5 seconds, they still give away their position by doing so.
Another possibility is making it so there are 2 hatches, but only one opens at a time. The killer can close the hatch, but doing so opens the other hatch.
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Simple solution,
hit the survivor and walk away. Works every time. Survivors are going to escape now and then
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1. Discard the whole idea of closing the hatch.
2. Give the killer the ability to Tombstone Myer Mori (instant grab kill) around the parameter of the hatch sound. (2b. Possibly increase the radius of the hatch sound.)
3. Give survivor 2-3 minutes before their aura automatically becomes visible to the killer.
4. For every extra second the survivor works on a generator, totem, or the Gate, the 2-3 minute timer pauses, and the amount of time increases by a second.
2. will eliminate any "hatch standoffs". 3. will eliminate any unnecessary prolonging of the game by the survivor. 4. will still give a chance for survivor to escape, especially against killers who are just going to camp the hatch.
Post edited by knell on0 -
The hatch itself should be equal for both sides to have a chance so maybe a game of hide and seek could be the answer?
The hatch spawns but doesn't open for 60 seconds (time may be longer) the killer then has a chance to find and down them in that time, there is no way to grab from the hatch if the timer runs out once so stealth is the answer.
If they are found within that time and in a chase for longer than 15 seconds then the hatch opens and the killer has a one hit down and also can grab from the hatch so you take your chance with a jump if possible.
After 120 seconds the survivors aura will be revealed to the killer and the hatch closes so you either do your best to leave or die.
This is just a way to make it so neither side wants to sit on the hatch, the survivor wants to find it and the killer wants to hunt and also end the game quickly.
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