My final hot takes before the forum shutdown
- Dead By Daylight is a Player VS Player game
— DBD is a pvp game. Before it is a casual game, before a party game, it is pvp. If it pits one or more players against 1 or more player then that makes it pvp.
2. Your fun isnt their responsibility
— Killers arent responsible for making the game fun for the survivors and likewise the survivors for the killer
3. Camping/tunneling/slugging/3gening are strategies
— these are strategies that killers employ if their being pressured and want to get kills
4. Killer strategies are not an expression of skill
— it is an expression of adaptive thinking, smarts, intelligence. to employ a plan and/or design that can achieve a greater result but can still fail. to sit and complain that it takes no skill is just pointless. its not meant to be skillful but to be intelligent.
5. 3 gen is not holding the game hostage
— its a power struggle. The Killer's last chance to protect the last generator from the survivors. survivors that say 3 gen is holding the game hostage are just mad the killer isnt giving up or chasing the decoy survivor while the other 3 finish last gen.
6. soloq is not an excuse to nerf Killers
— soloq is always going to be harder than swf. just because you struggle against killer in soloq doesnt mean they need to be nerf'd
7. Blight/Nurse/Ghoul/Jason are not braindead killers
— They're not braindead, just easy to use.
8. Theres nothing wrong with having S-Tier killers
— some players use harder killers like Trapper/Hag/Demo but would also like to play easier killers like Blight/Ghoul, some dont want to sweat and still lose
9. Event dont change the rules
— unless the game mode is designed that way (killer unable to chase/down/hook survivors) the killer can decide play the game normally or farm BP, the killer decides that NOT YOU.
10. Real Killer Mains dont gloat about not using strategies in their games and shame those that do.
— whats the point? why would you as a killer come on here, claim you dont use strategy, and tell other killers that do their bad. well you wouldnt unless you're a entitled survivor main in killer's skin.
11. Fun to play as is how new killers should be designed, not solely how fun they're to play against.
— New killers should be fun to play as, not how fun they are to play against. It is important to be fun to play against which they are but shouldnt be the main focus.
12. Finally survivors need to learn how to adapt instead of complaining on forums and social media
— if you're struggling, go look up YT videos on builds, tips, and "how to counter this killer". Thats what I did to be a better killer. survivors can start learning how to play again instead of making complaining posts after getting downed once.
Goodbye forums
Comments
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I will really miss the forums for comments like this.
Btw. cudos for that excellent ragebait.
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its not ragebait but thx anyways
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#3 - Drawing killer into running an infinite was a strategy. The statement has no bearing on whether its good or not as a game design feature.
#4 - Lots of things on the killer side are skill and/or reflexes and nothing to do with strategy. There's a strategy component sure, but the broader strategy is pretty simplistic.
#6 - if this is true, then SWFs are not a reason to buff killers. You can't just selectively exclude a group of players without a reason in balance discussions.
#7 - I'd say braindead and easy to use are basically synonyms.
#8 - Then there's nothing wrong with having S Tier survivor builds. If so, lots of things I'd like brought back.
#10 -Some people want to play a fair game, not one that has been slanted in their favor by the developers. You're free to play how you want, it doesn't change the facts of the game.
There's a survivor side of this as well, many SWFs don't run four toolboxes with BNPs and instead give themselves challenges or limitations. This doesn't make them killer mains in disguise.
#11 - The opposite is true. Ideally both occur, but if a killer isn't fun to play as, no one has to play them. If the killer isn't fun to play against and people stop playing survivor, the game has a substantial problem.
#12 - Like #8, if this is true, then let's bring back a whole bunch of survivor stuff
Goodbye rebuttals.
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#3- just want infinites back I guess
#4- I didnt say no skill was involved when playing killer. just that its senseless when survivors get camped/tunneled/slugged that they scream "no skill".
#6- killer hasnt been buffed because swf since forever so that was pointless
#7- its not
#8- I have no objection
#10- and thats fine if you decide to play that way, just dont attack the rest of the community that doesnt, killer hasnt been slanted in their favor by the dev for a long while. How many times have you heard on here "im a survivor main, i dont use strong builds or items with stong addons because im a GOOD survivor"?
#11- but then if no one plays that killer it doesnt make them money with cosmetics
#12- only if we bring back a lot of killer stuff too
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#3 - What?
#4 - Some of those are in fact low skill strategies.
So was insta completing gens.
This isn't even unique to DbD or even video games. Discussing whether the power of something in a game actually fits the skill it takes to employ is a pretty normal thing to be concerned with.
#6 - Because it would be silly to do it based on that and that alone.
#7 - No, they mean something pretty close.
#8 - Fair enough. I think that would be an awful approach to game design personally.
#10 - 60% KR goal doesn't really reflect this.
I've seen people, though it very well comes off as the 'hello survivor-mains' thing you are mentioning on the killer in disguise, say they do absolutely fine with incredibly weak builds. There have been examples of people on SWFs saying things feel too strong to run, Fast Tracks brief rise had some of this.
However, most people don't regularly play in 4 person SWFs, so they inherently don't have the ability to run the most powerful things the way a killer can, regardless of their skill level.
Also, outside the degree of it being said, it certainly happens quite a bit and, when it doesn't, is worth being criticized (example: I don't think comp survivor teams should run the best stuff in if they're playing public matches, its not sporting).
#11 - I don't think we need to give BHVR advice on how they can bilk more money out of cosmetics. They seem to have that part down quite well.
#12 - what I'm pointing out is the the issue with the logic. If you want a busted stuff on both sides, fair enough. Otherwise though we need to set standards and discuss them for both sides. Whether something is a 'strategy' isn't really an argument about whether it should or should not exist, otherwise there's no reason to have ever changed just about anything in the game because everything has some way it could have been adapted to.
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Succinctly put. I dunno why people go through mental gymnastics to justify making other people's experience worse in the game they signed up to play.
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im glad too, wont have to see entitled survivor mains making posts like their still in the great oppression. You're right it is just a game and you're malding this much. I have played both unlike you, a guy with over 4k posts most of them with heavy survivor bias. survivors with all these basekits and is still awful? so many are against me cause this forum is heavily entitled survivor bias, also I dont lack empathy and understanding, I just dont throw a tantrum on forums just because I lost. Get rekt bruh and have a nice day :-)
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yet your still blind to the issues on one side~
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This is why the Steam Community forums and Discord server will never truly replace the DBD forums. True and honest entitled players on here, not those blatant trolls or larpers only in it for the jester awards.
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…There's an actual jester award? O.O
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not anymore sadly
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Back during the hot take thread I was going to post 'Killer isn't just easier than survivor, it might be the the easiest thing ever made in a PvP game.' But it would have been more unnecessarily antagonizing than I would have liked.
Also, congratulations @cogsturning on surviving the forum, I was pretty sure we were going to lose you at some point.
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Since I dont know if my reply is even finished before the Forum is down and I dont want to waste any time anymore on Killer Mains who are bad at the game, but think they are not:
I know your post is not ragebait but your actual opinion. And this is the sad part.
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I know your post is not ragebait but your actual opinion. And this is the sad part.Whatever you would have typed with more words would not have been as poignant as this.
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…I dunno what excuse I made for not caring? Or what I did to be considered a douche here? I was agreeing with you lmao
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guessing she didn’t call you a douche. She was continuing the thought.
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Leaving here my final hot take that Post-Rework Skull Merchant was a perfectly designed killer, and the players who pathetically continued to DC against her were far more problematic than any imagined issues with her design.
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Glad you got to turn off the filter in the end.
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Perfect post number to end on @cogsturning
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that funny thing is most of you are frothing at the mouth cause most killers dont play the way you want them to and just curse up storms and hype each other up on copium but keep on going, it entertains us
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Not all of us are playing like life depended on it either. Try to relax and have fun with the game. Wins/losses, doesn't really matter.
Sure, winning is more fun than losing, but it doesn't mean that all matches has to be wins.12 -
Some killers don't realize how much they are dependent on the survivor rulebook. If it didn't exist, and all, or even just a large group, of killers just hard tunneled, BHVR would have to change it when player counts began to substantially drop.
But such playstyle on the killer side is also incredibly boring and thus DbD survives because enough players care about having fun.
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Attitudes like OPs are why this game can be such a miserable bloody experience. Especially for newer players. But as cogs says, maybe people should just lean hard into this playstyle. Then they either fix the game or it dies on the vine.
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cya Shanoa, you one of the good ones
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Wow, found myself wanting to say so many things and found that pretty much everything there is to be said has already been stated by people like @Pizzaman @crogers271 @Firellius @cogsturning @ArkInk @Rulebreaker @Aven_Fallen and @HoodedWildKard. This is one kind of experience I'll miss when the forums are gone.
Speaking of which, why aren't they gone 💀
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I can't tell if the "it entertains us" is giving Gollum vibes, hivemind vibes, or both, but it's hilarious.
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We are the reasonable opinion brigade. Bringing logic and rational reasoning to the salty tribal players for as long as the forums still stand.
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thought they'd close the forums by now, thank god for incompetence. But i guess Ill address the screaming baby squad so i guess we'll start with:
attitudes like what? having the right to play as I want as the Killer? learning to play the game is miserable for newer players. Good job worshiping Cogs. The fixing the game needs are just the bugs and it isnt dying anytime soon.
"reasonable opinion brigade"? you mean the "emotional, gaslighting, entitled brigade". Bro you dont bring logic and/or rational reasoning, and the only salty tribal players are you lot dogpiling on someone just having an opinion about playing how they want.
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experience? you mean dogpiling on someone that doesnt agree with your survivor bias so of course you appove of this. thats why I think its funny when you also commented
about hiveminds and here you are. and by us I meant us actual killer mains not these larpers pretending to be "white knight" killers
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anti-tunnel didnt get gutted, you got it as basekit but then you tried to use it offensively and got tunneled anyways. i seriously doubt killers were complaining about distortion, even I didnt understand why it was nerf'd but didnt really matter to me.
It actually backwards, every time killers adapt you survivors are the ones that complain that were to OP or this build is too "busted". Pop and Painres, kicking gens like brine and OC, and even Frainklins and Hex builds.
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what mental gymnastics? I bought the game, I que'd as killer, I play how I want. My job as your opponent isnt to make your experiance better, you have your objectives and I have mine. If you cant handle that then maybe PVP games are for you.
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actually im not. The issue is you guys are so entitled, you think the killer is just this baby-sitting Tickle monster that just chases you around while you do gen simulator.
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and why is it sad? because im playing for my fun. because I dont purposely lose so you dont cry after you lose?
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Welp you sound like it or just don't give a damn. Same effect either way.
For example even with all these basekits to tunneling its still effective and even if it fails still basically wrecks the trial for a survivor, aka another (presumably) human player.
That's just one example, want the list?
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Because your takes are giga-bad and show that you are giga-bad yourself. You are that kind of person who is not suitable for onlinegames. You are better off just playing singleplayer games, there your lack of empathy does not disturb anyone.
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but you're not using logic, you're using emotion. i didnt say I wanted busted stuff for both side, now you're just putting words in my mouth. my stance is survivor can play how they want and killers can play like they want.
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@cogsturning "I have over 1k matches just on my main alone. You thinking everyone is a biased entitled survivor main is your own bias. I know many of the people of the forums outside of it. They almost all play both. Some of use just think the power role shouldn't be the whiny ######### role. When you talk about posts being made when a match is lost you must be talking about the killers who will post one whole example of a match where they got genrushed. These crying ahh killers who can't handle tbagging or want to abandon when the gates are powered are an embarrassment to this community and there's so many of them, yet they won't hesitate to call whatever cheesy bs they do "strategy". I'd rather be called a survivor main than be in the same club as these pathetic losers."
ok so what? I've played 5k+ hours between Nemesis, Doctor, PH. I dont think everyone is an entitled survivor just player like you and your groupies. Really I've played survivor often too so i know what both sides go through. We just want it to be the power role too as long as they dont make the survivor side the power role.
and the rest of this is just you splurging, throwing a tantrum, and disregarding empathy for killers which is funny since you were just whiney about killers not having empathy. "Do as I say, not as I do" right?
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neither are we but when I que into a match, I give it my all. I actually do relax more then most of these other guys and again I never said "Killers have to win".
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Lmao this is the mental gymnastics dude. DBD is a game, for fun, and games are more fun when people try to have fun with each other.
"Why should I care about your fun when the only experience I get is my fun." Is inherently selfish and eye roll worthy. You just look silly for building up this idealistic "real killer main," while also saying "new killers should be designed firstly to be fun for killers to play, not survivors to face."
It's such a shameless "Survivors fun should be secondary to my fun in developer intention and I will push said design to make it unpleasant for them as possible to suit my needs."
Every PvP has people like you who don't care to ruin others experiences, DBD isn't special and you trying to recommend I stay away from PvP games shows how frankly fast your mentality devolves into gatekeeping others than embracing them.
Why should I, killer main or otherwise, care about your fun? You clearly don't give a damn about anyone else's.
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There said all I needed to say, you guys can keep going if you want.
have fun in the fog and learn chill out with the rage post.
Its just a game
-drag27, a Nemesis Main
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