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Legion Changes (Discussion)
So all my legion friends that i tolerate and are not actually toxic and annoying i don't remember all of you except maybe @Shad03 and @Chaotic_Riddle what do you guys think about the changes.
I am going to try to not be to brutal, but i love the changes, it makes the killer a little bit more tolerable and have some counter-play, also, no more Moonwalking Exploit 😁 so even if you're in his terror radius the mend timer will pause, making it completely useless.
In conclusion i like these changes, they are basically another Spirit that require some audio and some good tracking. Hell, maybe this will also allow me to be able to try the killer out.
Let me know what you all think down below. Have a Blessed Day. <3
Comments
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I will be making a post for step by step about how I feel about it. So look forward to it.
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I'm ######### happy. No more Deep Wound bullshit in a chase. No more line of sight cheese. Now the question is, is he going to be good?
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I am so sorry you can no longer look at the ground to secure downs anymore.
My cold heart weeps.
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115%. Guaranteed first hit with frenzy. Able to spread deep wound onto nearby survivors with aurareading. Seems like a Wraith with stalling potential.
I think legion will turn out strong. Not toptier, but good.
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I’m really happy, because now there’s finally a counter to this killer because we’ve all witnessed our fair share of moonwalking legions... I'm also happy that he will no longer receive the unrelenting 9000 constant swings whilst using his power. I also like the change with the iridescent add-on too! But one change I’m not 100% keen with is the movement speed nerf in frenzy, but I’ll just wait and see.
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I personally like a lot of the changes made to Legion but I do believe that the reduction in movement speed was unnecessary as I don't believe that was what people were so frustrated about. That being said it's good to see that there won't be able more people moonwalking or spamming the frenzy to down people.
For the duration changes though, I'd like to see how much the duration actually got increased by as that part will be very important for whether or not he can actually chain hits more with these changes in mind.
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While I don't like the changes and think spirit would be a wayyyyyyyyyyyy better choice than legion especially now I will listen to more dedicated legion mains and see what they have to say after all I can't draw conclusions until it is actually out maybe this just looks ugly on paper.
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@vampire_toothy I think you misunderstand. Legion was a 110% killer, NOW they're a 115%. It was increased.
Unless they also edited frenzy speed?
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They will be still be able to put you in 4 hits in Feral Frenzy. I'm sad about the terror radius increase. No longer a stealth killer.
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Good. ######### killer to play, ######### killer to play against.
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Dead killer for me, its time to use all my franx mix tape and my 40 moris before the update
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Might as well just delete him on console. Losing your power after missing a swing is an awful idea.
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Regardless, it's healthier. I might try him out now.
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@not_Queen Will there be an update to the Deranged Pursuit trophy? I have no idea how it will be possible anymore without trying to get survivors to play a farm game.
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My bad, I was not talking about the changes in base movement speed as that was increased. I was talking about the changes to the feral frenzy movement speed which apparently was significantly decreased (despite the fact that there is only a 17% difference between 115% & 132%)
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I like most of these changes . I really need to see his reworked addons, things like pin were pretty useless and I hope they're more well designed this time around. As someone who loves legion I really hope this is a lot healthier for the game.
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lmao what kinda ######### change is it to lose Feral Frenzy if you miss. You're already crouched and have limited visibility in Feral Frenzy, you're slower now in it, and survivors can just juke you easy due to the short lunge range. It's unironically better to not even use their power, they're an M1 killer now. Why not just remove Feral Frenzy and create a new power for them? This change is garbage and I don't even play Legion.
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@vampire_toothy Ah okay, I still haven't found the actual post about legion so I havent been able to actually see all the changes. But damn..,. I mean with them getting the 5% bonus base speed, it's not a terrible compromise, but losing ALL of your power on one missed swing is gonna be a tough one to get used to.
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So with these changes, I'm assuming the exposed effect should now work with feral frenzy right? Because there's no reason for it not to apply anymore.
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So... Im not sure how to feel about it.
- Standard movement speed: Nice, I guess.
- Standard TR: I dont like it as much, making M&A slightly less effective on them. Legion's ability to sneak in and surprise Survivors was really nice. I understand why they did it (because of movement speed), but it kind of removes a very good strategy for them.
- Iridescent Button: I likey. Wondering if they reworked Fuming Mixtape along.
- Now same to Spirit's power gauge: Not affected by it, I rarely ever managed to pull off those short duration Frenzy hits.
- Longer Frenzy: Good. We will see how faster it is, probably allowing to put much better map pressure.
- Reduced Frenzy speed: I suppose we will have to wait and see how much this was changed. Not too happy about this one, but we will see.
- Cannot see blood pools while in Frenzy: I dont see the benefit of this. Removing perk synergy even further. I personally never used stuff like Bloodhound, but still.
- Frenzy cancelled upon missed attacks: I dislike this. Getting 360ed as Legion was good enough as a counter.
- Deep Wounds timer paused while in TR: Counter for moonwalking Legions.
- Deep Wounds timer paused while mending: I dont see why, honestly. The timer is paused as long as you remain within their TR. Basically, its easier to get out of Deep Wounds. Might as well not use it anymore or what?
- Not being able to see Mending bars: Thats fine.
- Frenzy hits no longer reduce Mending time: I dislike this change, basically means (again) applying Deep Wounds is less useful.
Overall, I feel Im rather disappointed at the changes. We had a cool Killer concept, and now it will turn into just a regular M1 Killer that can sprint slightly faster for a limited time and gains nothing from doing so. I feel they are trying to make it a hindered Hillbilly without an insta-down. Not saying this is bad or good, because, who knows, they might excel at map pressure now, but we will have to test it first. Still, I liked the concept of how Legion played (I never moonwalked or anything) and seeing it turned into this is a bit saddening.
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He used to be as bad as Freddy. Now he is in a whole new tier. If Freddy was tier F, Legion has to be in tier Z
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@PigNRun Wow I didn't know about not seeing blood. So in frenzy, they can no longer see blood OR scratches? OOF.
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@not_Queen Given the lag that happens in your game, at what stage is making a missed Feral Frenzy hit deplete the entire power seem like a good idea. It's like the team doesn't even understand what lag issues the regular-Joe player base suffers in your game. And I don't care about dedicated servers. For one, they're months away at best and this is the here and now. For two, the proof will be in the pudding, as they say. It's just as likely for a studio to have weak servers and shoddy netcode that brings its own host of issues as it is to knock it out of the park.
I'm on top-of-the-line internet. And I still have flickering, laggy survivors in my games as a Killer host. Even when they have green ping in the lobby. At this point, I have zero confidence in the team moving forward. It's a shame I can't get a Steam refund on this DLC now. But trust in the fact that I will be very reluctant to purchase any new DLCs moving forward.
If this missed attack depletes Frenzy was the team's idea for how to fix Legion, then I hold absolutely zero hope for the prophesied Freddy rework.
Post edited by Kilmeran on3 -
It's basically making it so survivors have a chance against him, 360ing was easy ish because the legion would just spam the attack until he hit something. Being more tactical with your M1's in frenzy isn't a bad thing.
Tunnel frenzy spam wasn't healthy for the game (re: DC rates against legion) because there was literally nothing you can do. These changes make the match healthier, while making the legion a more skill based killer.
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I think the key is to look at the Legion as a good killer with more emphasis on being someone that slows the game down with his power, rather than getting guaranteed kills with it.
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My thoughts exactly! I think just making deep wound not draining while in the killers terror radius would be enough. Maybe decreasing the feral frenzy speed as well. Now removing scratch marks, making him slower and specially just shutting down his power completely if you miss a swing is ridiculous. I mean.. now he is a high risk no reward killer, because his power completely sucks.
Instead of fixing an exploit(which im totally in favor of) they just destroyed him. So killer mains get a big nerf and survivor mains get mettle of man. Maybe they are taking into consideration that now we can have 2 killers in a match! That would make legion viable!
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many people may be upset with the changes but in the end he's much healthier for the game now, and that's all I could ask for
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@Kilmeran :O are...are you back?? Or did you just want to see the Legion changes and the responses?
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Seems okay. I'll have to see it in the game to know if I like it.
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He needed more counter play but I'm unsure on this to be honest. but we'll see how it plays out in the PTB, I don't play legion so I can't make a full opinion yet.
Buffs:
The Legion’s Base movement speed is increased to 4.6m/s.
The Iridescent button add on no longer requires The Legion to apply Deep Wound for the effects to be active.
The duration of feral frenzy is increased. The Legion spends longer in frenzy.
Nerfs:
The Legion’s Terror Radius is increased to 32m.
The recharge time of feral frenzy is increased and now requires a full power gauge to use it. Once it has been activated, the Legion must wait until the power gauge is full to be able to trigger the power again.
The Movement speed of feral frenzy is significantly reduced. The Legion moves faster than base speed while in frenzy, but not as fast as they did before.
The Legion can no longer see blood pools (in addition to not seeing scratch marks) while in Feral Frenzy.
Feral Frenzy is immediately and automatically cancelled whenever The Legion misses an attack while in frenzy.
The Deep Wound timer pauses for survivors within the killer's terror radius –regardless of whether they are in a chase or not.
The Deep Wound timer pauses While mending.
The Killer does not see the deep wound timer progress –only the Deep Wound bar to know that Deep Wound has been applied.
The Deep wound timer progress is no longer reduced by regular Feral Frenzy attacks.
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@Carpemortum I decided to come back. Between a couple folks here and some messages at Steam, it seems a select few missed me. Plus, seeing the absolute asinine change to the Feral Frenzy missed swing in a game plagued by lag, it became a point I was going to call Behavior out on.
It is one of the dumbest design choices I have seen in a game that only runs smooth if you pray to the right gods or sacrifice a puppy. And this comes from a Killer host that is on top-of-the-line and expensive internet. And I still have flickering survivors in my matches.
It's becoming clear that the design team doesn't understand their own game in actual, everyday-man play.
That change alone, and the absolute lack of confidence it brings from me in Behavior, is why I will be reluctant to purchase further DLCs from them, since I can't get a Steam refund on this garbage now.
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No, as someone who played as Legion a lot and against Legions a lot, thats not how 360s work against Legions. You are supposed to do a single spin and then run away. Most Legions do as you say and keep spamming M1. What this change did was buff a solid counter even further. Unless they somehow reduced the stun from exiting Frenzy and forgot to mention it, you get less out of your power now than just M1ing. Thats not mentioning frame drops on console, laggy Survivors or faulty hitboxes.
I honestly disagree. Frank's Mixtape was what was wrong about Frenzy hits. Otherwise, 5 Frenzy hits to down someone is just as good as doing two basic attacks, if not slightly less effective. If you used that strategy all game, as Legion, you would lose.
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You should nerf one carasteristic of Legion at a time, not all of them at once (for example: Mending timer stops when mending AND the timer does not progress within their terror radious?). Their power is inconsequential now. Every other killer is preferable next to them.
So sad. Like @xchrisx said, better use up their add-ons before the update and hung up the good old hoodie and knife for good.
:'-(
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At first glance, it seems like Legion got gutted. They were already the worst Killer in the game. They now seem like a 115% M1 Killer. The worst change is having Frenzy get canceled after missing one attack. It's just way too much in my opinion. It shouldn't even make it to the PTB, much less the live build. I think most DbD players would be able to see how bad of a change it would be instantly.
@Peanits @not_Queen Are the Deep Wound changes only for Legion? None of the other Killers could use Deep Wound as well as Legion could.
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@Kilmeran Ah I understand. Well, good to see a familiar face with actual game industry insight (video or tabletop doesn't matter in terms of business practice imo) that wasn't an ass!
Also, yeah, this change...had potential to work. A short stun. or ending frenzy and needing a full bar to use it. But to completely drain it on ONE hit and ALSO require a full power gauge....is gonna be rough to see how it works.
Granted, it's still a (if you don't miss) free hit to start a 115% chace, but if you do miss it, that's a bit more ground to make up and wait for.
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Yeah, Legion is new F-tier. Freddy is getting rework so assuming that, he's going to out of F tier and hopefully find a home somewhere better. The fact that Legion can't use his power until its fully charged means that he can't injure survivors if he gets bodyblocked so that's bad especially for when gates are powered. The lower duration and speed means he will have harder time injuring more than one survivor in frenzy. The higher terror radius means that survivors will have easier time noticing him, allowing them to get a larger distance before he can even catch up to them with slower frenzy. He can't hit same survivor twice, so he has no guaranteed downs anymore, which means he lost his ability to anti-loop survivors as vaulting pallets and windows faster is pointless, and he can't moonwalk survivors so the whole point of having a timer has lost all relevant purpose.
The only buff he got to compensate all those nerfs is that he moves at 115% movement speed. so now, every killer is just going to run cold dirt+susie mixtape(fatique reducation add-on's), they'll go in into frenzy, hit you, run after you, let go of their power, and just than just hit you again after the fatique runs out. That's how legion is going to be played next patch.
My opinion is that Legion lost his defined identity which was to act like a survivor and what made Legion feel like a survivor is the fact he could vault pallets and windows quickly, but now, all of that is pointless because it doesn't lead into anything rewarding for him. I think if Legion doesn't get a some rework on his add-on's like blocking pallet vaulting after he vaults or something useful that makes his power feel impactful, He's going feel like M1 killer with no special power. He might better off than before, but he'll be boring to play.
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@Carpemortum There is actually a lot of cross-over between table-top and video game. When I landed my video game industry gig, my table-top design, balance, and writing experience served as the portfolio.
There are actually video game industry Devs that also work in the table-top industry. For example, the owner of Pinnacle Entertainment, which does the award winning table-top RPG called Savage Worlds, was also a Dev on City of Heroes, did early work on Champions Online, and was one of the early Game Producers on Neverwinter.
And there are others. That was actually how I first made my video game industry contacts.
I didn't personally care much for video game work, and finally retired from the table-top industry summer 2018. I went back to what I love: fiction writing.
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Peanits confirmed in another thread that it'll apply to BT as well.
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@DocOctober I commented this over there. after a little thought, BT should be so bad with this change. probably better.
At first I agreed with it being buffed. But now that I think about it, it's only a slight change.
When BT procs, Killers either choose to follow up and end you, or move on. This won't change that very much. If they chase you, it wouldn't tick anyways. If they leave you, whether you're in their TR or not, you can mend because you're not being actively chased.
Im sure a few situations could be replicated to make the "new buff" to BT seem far more powerful, but I don't think it will have the same impact as the same change being applied to legion. It shouldn't disrupt much.
If anything, it will help against the campers who would Moonwalk to end BT after your team managing to save you within their TR. They will have to actively attack you, not just bs in your general direction.
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I want to thank @Detective_Jonathan for shouting me out, thanks ❤️
And I want to thank @not_Queen and the rest of the dev team for their hard work!
Now, first off, I love the new movement speed and changes to Legion’s frenzy. I will admit, the ability to swing around all willy nilly was a bit insane, but now, I can see Legion actually being able to participate in matches without having to deal with DCs. Also, I love that Iridescent Button finally got a buff! I will still continue to main Legion and I see this as not a buff or a nerf, but an excellent balance for one of the greatest killers (in my personal opinion) that’s BHVR has given us.
I hope to see y’all in the fog! ❤️❤️❤️
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Gauranteed first hit and reliable tracking, that alone isn't worse than freddy. Not to mention instantly breaking pallets and even without that the fastest bamboozle blocking tech in dbd
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