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No counterplay? What about pallet counterplay?
Title.
Legion had counterplay to pallets now they'll be looped.
Explain how it's fair one way but not the other.
Survivors pallets no counterplay run in circles= good.
Legion ignores them no counterplay=bad
Comments
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Everyone: Legion sucks to play against so much that we’re gonna start a trend of disconnecting because we don’t like the killer.
BHVR: Changes Legion to (in their view) be less frustrating to play against.
Everyone: You’ve ruined Legion, it’s an unplayable killer now, just another M1 killer, where’s my refund for buying Legion.
I’m not saying I agree or disagree with the changes but that pretty much sums up how this went.
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Tell me how a survivor would possibly escape a Legion constantly running at them with FF other than the Legion player being braindead.
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@gantes they're not but they just flipped it the other way. Now survivors will never be caught because he has no chase tool just basic movement to down.
Post edited by BBQnDemogorgon on1 -
You mean a free hit on everyone close to your first target then playing loop mindgames like you probably should know how if you have more than 10 hours in the game?
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Have you considered breaking pallets? I think that counters them from existing I'm not sure though.
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@ScottJund Good argument if there was one on the map.
Are we meant to just break every one? The gens are done by then.
Unless given a tool like hatchets blinks or frenzy
Every pallet involves a loop and a break animation and by the end of the animation they're at the next loop.
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Nope, not all pallets are safe. Even so, you don't have to break every pallet on the map, you just have to break enough to make a dead area near generators so the survivors are forced to go into an area where they cannot do anything to evade you, or do nothing at all to progress the game.
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@DeadGavin Other killers have powers.
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Explain Freddy and Wraith then.
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@ScottJund again you can't get looped and get even 5 pallets gone before half the gens are done.
You're ignoring that while i'm breaking pallets i'm not killing so 3 survivors are on gens
Give me more time so its actually viable and i'll break pallets
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Those two poor souls are curled up in a corner already. Leave them alone.
And Freddy has a power: he asks survivors permission to interact with them.
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@Meme Explain low tier killers no one plays? With one getting a rework because he's so bad?
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5-6 Pallets are sometimes half of the entire pallet count of the map.
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Than next time just don't say the others killers have powers. You literally complaining before the Legion rework is even out baffles me. At least legion isn't as crap as Wraith and Freddy.
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Only on one map
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What you're wanting me to do isn't fun it's just running in circles and pressing a button when i get stunned.
When do i get to play the game and get hooks? @ScottJund
With old legion if a pallet was dropped you hopped over it and stabbed a ######### that was fun you actually get to hit things.
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Wraith can use his power and bait survivors in order to make mistekes and hit them. When his user his power he is faster and with same add-ons can be deadly. Freddy just wait one moth and we see then.
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When survivors feel sorry for you, you may hook one
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explain how its fun for anyone when you cant do anything but wait until Legion catched up to you and frenzies you to death.
since there was literally no counterplay to a legion, it made the killer extremely unfun to play against and resulted in many people simply ragequitting against them.
they HAD to change something. eigther take away his killer instinct or his really unfun chase mechanics.
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Agreed. This dude is basically complaining that he doesn't have a crutch anymore. Pallet was a counter? MInd game or better yet use YOUR DAMN ABILITY to jump over it. Don't want to break It like almost the rest of the killers have to do? Use the add on that allows you to break pallets while vaulting. @Bbbrian2013
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Well they still can get an easy first hit in and they can down them more reliable
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If you use your power you will first get stun or whatever and then you lose your power for the next 15 sec. Look i hate what they do to legion and i know he/she will be the worst but i try to find same pros still looking. Oh and if the pallet is safe you can do anything for the next 30 sec ( atleast).
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Yea that's...kind of the point, now you really need to work for the down instead of relying on your power.
And boy am i going to have so much fun looping your fellow gang members around a pallet. 😊
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@Bbbrian2013 run brutal strength if pallets are that bad, combo that with spirit fury.
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Aaaaand there you have it. The real audience this was for: Toxic Survivor mains who want to be Noob3 and loop Killers all game. But they are upset because they can't do that with Legion. Any other Killer gets no complaints because they can be looped all game.
Just admit you wanted Legion removed altogether, not balance.
Oh, and, I don't normally use Frank's, but if I see you on PS4, I'm tunneling you with Frank's Mixtape and mori with your name on it. 😁
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Can you truly, truly not see how a killer with no counter in a chase is bad for the game? That someone with 5 minutes in the game can down someone with 6000 hours in the game because the power requires zero skill?
If you seriously think that you have to be terrible at the game or something.
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So if they are a toxic survivor main I guess that makes you a toxic legion main, lol. Sorry you can't use a crutch anymore.
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Another totally dumb killer main complaining about survivor stuff thread. It always gets more idiotic.
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>tfw you've only read the page discussing Legion's nerfs and """""buffs"""" and don't know what add-ons specifically were changed and how, other than Iri. button and are laughing at another person for it.
Oh well. Maybe I'll look into the PC version then. Because they're reeeeeally beginning to rub me the wrong way. 🤣
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I mean, I got to rank 1 as Killer multiple times as every single Killer (except Plague because she was added after/during the emblem update) pre-emblem update, I could probably do so again if I wasn't pursuing Skilled Huntress. 100 times... wow. As well as rank 3 Survivor. But, sure, I'm "bad at the game".
There is 100% a counter: Run in a straight line.
I am not kidding. Run in a straight line. Chances are the Legion will run out of steam before they can hit you. Or run the same loop with multiple objects blocking it, like the barn loop on Coldwind Farm.
Don't forget to scatter! Because you are literally IMPOSSIBLE to detect if you're outside of the Legion's terror radius if they're Frenzying!
5 mins is also a insane amount of time.
It is known that one Survivor, without items or perks or extra help OR Great Skill Checks, just normal skill checks, can do a gen in 80 seconds. 5 minutes is basically 4-5 gens. Don't forget SWF and how the new pipping requirements now enforce a higher level of play from Survivors to pip.
Legion gets genrushed without Ruin, everybody knows this. If they tunnel with Frenzy, they get genrushed. If they try to down with a normal strike, they get looped.
And y'all think Legion can afford to break pallets. I climbed from rank 10 to rank 1 as Legion, it is braindead easy to just run to the next pallet while Legion is breaking it. Because they are SO SLOW YOU CAN RUN FROM ONE SIDE OF THE MAP TO THE NEXT!
If you think Legion has no weaknesses, you must be a trash Survivor main or something. 😀 @ScottJund
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This is true actually, the only looping problem I had as a legion was the haddonfield fences as I don't multistab a single surv with frenzy (I used it as a tracking/pain spreading/location power) otherwise I would wound w/ frenzy then just mindgame/down with 110% either in that chase or later when they refuse to heal, now movement speed is boosted I'm happy as this shouldn't be a huge issue anymore, just really waiting to see how all the changes play together to be honest. Also I break pallets instantly or when I go past, not interested in leaving that open to play. I guess larger base TR also means better tracking, encouraging stabbing different survs, but with the duration etc and addons I think it's too early to be calling anything.
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They ARE toxic, they want to actively disrespect the Killer. The other team. That is the definition of toxic.
And LMAO, I don't want a Killer to be destroyed, therefore I'm a toxic Legion main. You don't know what "toxic" means, Karen. I play both Survivor and Killer, thank you very much. I switch between them often.
Frenzy? A crutch? A complete timewasting power that is easy to counterplay by scattering and RUNNING IN A STRAIGHT LINE and makes you easy to be genrushed as a result? Sure, Jan.
Legion struggles to secure downs without Frenzy, any Survivor with braincells can run from the next pallet to the next. They don't have to do #########. Legion loses a lot of time to rank 15 tactics because they lack the BASE speed. You can even run across the map, no joke!, before Legion can land a normal hit on you!
Hell, you can even literally do normal loops and STILL not get hit by Frenzy. I've done this before with barn loop on Coldwind Farm. The Susie Frenzied, followed the same pattern as me but couldn't catch up to me.
"Do normal mindgames"? Try to mindgame as a slow Killer that can't punish any mistakes you make. Bad vault? Can't reach you in time? Unsafe pallet vault? Not fast enough.
These were the exact same complaints made about Legion at launch. Legion is weak, period. Complain about Frank's Mixtape if you want something to cry about.
TL;DR for those who want to remain ignorant: Y'all are just bitter you couldn't be Noob3 and loop a Killer for 5 gens without being damaged in the slightest and couldn't genrush anymore against a specific killer, even if it's only one Killer in the game, then teabag and go "EZZZZY" in the chat after the game. Survivors are the power role, everybody knows this.
To deny this is to... what is it that entitled Survivors call it? "Not see the other side"? ;)
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There's plenty of counterplay killers can use while being looped. As a killer, you can peel off the survivor if the chase is going too long and you can learn how to take loops best to maximize your time. I would say not to respect pallets. It's best to take the stun or call them on their bluff, rather than taking another loop.
There isn't any counterplay for being tunneled by a Legion. They're very strong in a 1v1. If they get the first hit off (which should be easy), tracking you would be easy, too. Most bring along Bloodhound. They can follow you until you fall or FF you until you fall. Also their power notifies them of everyone nearby. There really isn't another killer with an advantage like that. And the only other killer who can ignore loops like Legion can is Nurse, which takes a lot of skill to get down. I think making Legion's power a time waster instead of making Legion rely on their power 'cause they're too slow otherwise is preferable, but the PTB isn't out yet and I'm personally waiting until I can try them out before I make any judgements on it.
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Another totally dumb Survivor main complaining about Killer stuff board member. It always gets more idiotic.
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... Do you not know who Scott is?
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Who are you talking to? Me? If this is address to me, tag me or reply.
"There's plenty of counterplay Killers can use"
Absolutely wrong. Survivors can loop Killers for 5 gens, don't lie.
"Peel off the Survivor"
AKA a victory? You have literally just admitted the counterplay is to "give up". That should not be a thing.
SOMETIMES it works to take pallet stuns, but higher rank Survivors typically know enough about mindgames to stop that.
"There isn't any counterplay for being tunneled by a Legion."
Wrong. Run in a straight line, do pallet mindgames to bait Legion into respecting it. SCATTER. DON'T GENRUSH TOGETHER.
Alternatively, not running everywhere, even when Deep Wounded, can help. Walk away, hide behind things. Work with the timer, you can get further away from Legion than you'd expect.
"They're very strong in a 1v1. If they get the first hit off (which should be easy)"
This is 100% the purpose of Legion, I'll explain why.
"They can follow you until you fall or FF you until you fall."
You mean via moonwalking? The former will be fixed with this update. The latter the entitled Survivor mains are getting. ;)
"Also their power notifies them of everyone nearby."
See, this is it. Their power was built like this intentionally because they aren't SUPPOSED to tunnel. They are a Killer who is meant to quickly wound, disengage, and target another Survivor. This is why they are faster than Survivors. This is why Killer Instinct exists.
Problem is, these are the same "doing a pretty good job so far" devs who actually thought Legion was good during testing, probably because they kept grouping up, and was weak AF on the PTB later on.
Frenzy can be stopped by running in a straight line, or doing normal loops. No joke. Forcing Legions to tunnel because Survivors are easily too far away. It takes no effort to see Legion coming from far away, then immediately scatter.
Sprint as much as you want, Frenzy removes scratch marks. And now, blood stains. Even if you show up on Killer Instinct before you inevitably leave their terror radius, what is the Legion gonna do? FOLLOW you? They'll run out of Frenzy before they reach you.
Wanna know what they should have done? Reworked Frank's or increase it's rarity tier, remove moonwalking and the blade exploit, and buff Frenzy's POSSIBLE potential to STRING HITS across MULTIPLE Survivors by increasing Frenzy movement speed and possibly power duration every time you Deep Wound a Survivor until your Frenzy ends.
You would have a lower chance of being tunneled if this went into effect, and Legion would be played the way the devs intended.
With these nerfs, these devs are clearly changing the purpose altogether.
"I think making Legion's power a time waster instead of making Legion rely on their power 'cause they're too slow otherwise is preferable,"
So, you would rather destroy a Killer and make their Killer power, something that makes a Killer a... Killer. Unique... instead of balancing them.
This is why you don't have a voice in the matter.
I can't wait to see the PTB too, and how it's easily in favor of Survivors. The playerbase, which is mostly Survivors, will be very pleased, as they can now loop Legion for 5 gens even easier than before, and feel good because the killer can't do anything about it.
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Nope. Should I care?
History means nothing to me, I dealt with another idiot who had all of his "Regular Club" friends defend him when we were arguing over something as silly as the color of the player death gravestones in Bloodborne. No joke. Triggered a huge argument that trolls jumped in on with ######### posts and proceeded to make the front page of GameFAQs. Also not joking.
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Oh, okay, so I made a mistake then?
… Big deal? I'm human, Becky.
That change is stupid to begin with. What is the point of Frenzy now? Why get a extension when you land a hit? It is now effectively impossible to string hits to other Survivors, which is the MAIN, INTENDED PURPOSE of Frenzy, because Legion's Frenzy speed is also nerfed as well!
Survivor mains got what they wanted. Are you all happy that now you can genrush without counterplay and loop all Killers for 5 gens again?
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Wah I can't spam my power and swing endlessly anymore wah I have to wait 15 seconds after using it wah.
It's almost as if Spirit mains don't have to wait 15 seconds for her bar to recharge as well and there's also that phasing sound etc.
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@powerbats Spirit can down with her power.
Don't heal and legions power is to make you hold m1 for 5 seconds. It has no use at all against injured survivors.
Legion is no trap trapper. No cloak wraith
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I mean, the dude is one of the most analytically capable and critically competent killers to play the game.
He was the best Huntress, period, for quite a while, though he does more Spirit these days.
He isn't wrong in this argument. The dude made a mindgame tutorial on how to handle every tile in the game. Commonly shared between the maps.
The consideration here is, if you think this is a problem, you do need to legitimately get good. Doc was higher tier then old Legion and he is the posterboy of M1 without a power that actually helps.
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stop. feeding. the. troll
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@Free_Hugs Except, that spirit has to wait because her power makes her INVISIBLE, cover MASSIVE distances, and are able to DAMAGE after using it. Legion can only add Deep Wounds after using frenzy, or wait a stun. So having to wait an ENTIRE 15 seconds on a SINGLE missed attack, is a little bit much. Especially when comparing to spirit. Her power is to end chases, Legions is to start them and split pressure.
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… Cool? Doesn't matter about any of those things, you can still be wrong on a Killer he clearly know nothing about.
"He isn't wrong in this argument." Ah, can you show your bias in this matter any more? And he is wrong, I've demonstrated as such.
"If you think these pro-Survivor changes that WILL destroy a Killer are a problem, then you need to GIT GUUUUUUUD!!!!!!1". I can play almost any other Killer in the game, and typically enjoy it. I've gotten to rank 1 as PS4 Killer multiple times under old system. YOU get good, Jan.
Doc gets looped without his power, he's slightly faster than Legion and can MAYBE hit a Survivor before they can reach the next pallet if they don't vault at all. Maaaaybe. 😀
Unless I misinterpreted that?
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Complains about survivor bias posts endless killer bias that doesn't stand up to actual logic. It's amazing you whine so much about things yet there's killers out there routinely 3-4king with said killers because gasp they know how to play properly.
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I'll say the same thing to everyone that unironically says Legion has counterplay. Let's go in a KYF game and I want you to last longer than 30 seconds. If you can, you countered him and I'm wrong. If you don't, you're talking out your ass.
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