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The Legion Rework: This feedback is retired
Comments
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One more thing.... they need to add killer blindness while in frenzy to lockers. It's pretty insane that legion can see you through lockers, especially since they buffed lockers, but legion can still see you through lockers.
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@HURRI_KAIN he can’t see you, he can see a indicator of where you are. Why are you hiding in a locker against legion or huntress anyway?
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I don't, but should be able to, that's all i'm saying. I don't meme Dwight. haha! But the indicator is a circle in your exact spot, so yes pretty much he can see you.
My opinion is, that you should be able to hide in a locker from legion. It only makes sense since all other tracking is temporarily nerfed by lockers, he should be also.
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One more thing, I wouldn't have increased the TR necessarily... but may be necessary with increased movement speed.
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Typical survivor main
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They might as well give Frank that mask, he's not even a killer anymore but a punching bag for survivors now
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- The Deep Wound timer progress is no longer reduced by regular Feral Frenzy attacks.
This change is the hardest change to Legion, it will makes his power completely useless. If you made this making legion require full power to activate makes no sense anymore. because Legions gets stun from it, meaning by the time you vault to the other side, the survivor already vaulted back since you are stunned
and the deep wound is literally become a useless power
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No more fun times with legion, sad days :(
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What if attacking a survivor with FF while they already have the DW status increased the DW time and mend time? Or if hitting consecutive stabs with FF (going to one survivor to another) had the same effect that I previously said? What if Legion could see the auras of survivors mending and if survivors stopped mending for whatever reason, they enter the dying state. I really like this idea because they actually have to waste time finding a spot or else they risk getting found and soon after, downed.
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You forgot that survivor's mending also stops the progress, which I really don't think is necessary. I agree with most if not all of your points, though.
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I'd make it to where stacking DW actually meant something. So if you hit one survivor they'd have the effect applied, hit a 2nd they'd have DW applied with a portion of the bar gone, hit a third survivor and half or more gone. Hit a 4th in the same frenzy and it down's the survivor hit. It'd actually give you a reason to hit multiple survivors and traverse map wide in one frenzy. It'd also make the penalty of missing a frenzy attack better if that's the reward of flawless execution. Seems thats the way the devs wanted him played, applying the status effect to everyone and downing one person while the rest are recovering. The way I see the power nowit's more annoying than anything. Hope the devs actually listen to us this time.
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So... you can basically go back to playing pre-nerf Legion with add-ons? That's pretty crappy; what's the point in that? What next, we gonna' take away Spirit's ability to see scratch marks during phasing and tack that onto an add-on? The dependency of add-ons to make a lot of killers even viable was already a problem in and of itself *cough... Bubba, Wraith, etc.* ... now we're going full-steam down this road? That's a concerning path.
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So the fix for Legion is to nerf him into a doodoo killer. Fun for survivors because they're trash now, who cares about killer. lol
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My apologies for being late my friend. While I could have answered earlier, I had been on my tablet and that is very annoying to write with on these forums. Now to answer your questions @Detective_Jonathan
If you had been around the LoL Clan for any decent amount of time, we've stated the counters numerous times.
One of the counters, quite simply, were to never group up and even if you were within the Killer Instinct's terror radius, if you were far enough or if you had some means of gaining distance fast, you could easily outrun even a lunge boosting Legion.
Another counter is 360 (especially on console where the fps are not really good). On PS4, where I play, I am not a good survivor. However I can do basic jukes and 360s, sometimes I succeed and the Legion that I face wastes time with me, or I don't and my efforts were in vain.
On the subject of exploiting Legions, I will give it to you that those are harder to counter, however, if you could make it to a window/pallet, you can really screw those jerks up. Maps with tall grass are also your friends as a Legion who knows how to track blood without Bloodhound will get tilted, even if they did run it.
Something tells me I will have a lot of fun reading everyone else's replies to the thread. I checked before finding yours, and this is what happens when I go away from the forums. Sigh
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@FeelsVeryBadMan Others have answered you, but I feel the need to give you my second opinion.
Community: reewurk Leegun
Devs: *reewurk Leegun*
Rework: *isn't even out yet, changes listed on the forums, no one even got to play them yet*
Community: this reewurk is trash, im quitting dee bee dee and pls gib me a refund.
Nice strawman.
"Can this please stop? Over and over again people have complained about something being weak, and weeks later decided that it was the best thing to happen. *cough* Spirit *cough*"
This isn't me complaining so much as me giving FEED BACK, you know, the thing that made the Spirit as great as she is now? There is a time and place for feed back, and right now is the time. I love the Legion, and I truly do not wish to see them rot. The changes seem good, and 115 movement is awesome, but the power looks like it'll be completely useless now and I might as well stick with my Trapper if I want to have even a bit of usefulness.
"Just wait for the changes to hit PTB and play it for yourself. Actually, now that I think about it, it won't change anything, people are still going to ######### about it until it's not their way."
I would if I could. Unfortunately I play on PS4 but I will be following the Legion's new gameplay VERY closely. If it plays well, and my feedback was listened to, I'll make another post explaining what is done right with the Legion, and what could change if something is done somewhat wrong. You have to understand I love this community, and I love the Legion as a killer. What happens to them is important for me.
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Your recent legion changes will absolutely destroy him. I don't see any reason to even test him in PTB.
Main issue would be this:
- The movement speed of Feral Frenzy is significantly reduced. The Legion moves faster than base speed while in frenzy, but not as fast as they did before.
With these upcoming changes legion will move slower in frenzy and also you will lose all frenzy if you miss attack. This makes him extremely easy to pallet loop, becouse you now have to respect pallets like rank 20 killer and this gives survivor chance to make another loop.
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Damn. Another fun Killer bites the dust. I guess its back to having only slow, plodding killers who can get run in circles for ages.
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I understand that people are frusturated, whether it's their favourite killer, or just a fun and relax killer to play. @Shad03
Yes, some nerfs / changes were a bit too much, especially the missed attack one. I completely agree with that.
What I don't understand, is why are people always crying about something when it's not even out yet? It might look really bad on paper, but it might be good in-game. Nobody knows that because no one got to play them yet. Feedback is usually given during the PTB or after the PTB has ended.
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Because getting the initial hit in a chase is so hard, right? What exactly is “free” about it? Even Freddy and Wraith don’t get “free” hits all the time.
Youre getting too emotional here. It’s adorable, but misplaced. You’re confusing valid criticism with wanting Legion to remain the same. Tip: you can think this Legion nerf sucks, AND think they are broken in their current state. Most definitely a change was needed to allow for better counters. But Legion is worthless as described in this nerf. Basically you’re going to frenzy in to try for an easy hit and then it becomes a stale, generic M1 chase where you’ll rely on map RNG to get the down. The only fun you’ll have is with add-ons. Bleh.
hope nothing was misspelled, this new forum is doodoo on iOS.
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@FeelsVeryBadMan It's a chance to see our feedback taken to heart, as our dear not_Queen has stated (albeit she and the other team are probably just looking now). Some of us are actually giving feedback that COULD be seen in the PTB, and if our feedback is not balanced, they could do minor tweaks.
Even though the PTB was made for our feedback, it's good to share our thoughts here. Because sometimes flaws could be pointed out before it was placed.
Think of it like a restaurant. The manager decides to give out a new dish, but hasn't actually served it yet, the patrons are given a chance to review it before they could even taste it.
Of course if the dish on paper doesn't look appetizing or is atrociously bad at first glance, the patrons WILL call for it to be changed. After initial feedback, the dish is served with the changes asked for. Then the patrons can give additional feedback based on what they ate. If good, the dish is now purchasable and everyone can be decently happen. If bad, well the dish will be under review.
Dead by Daylight is the restaurant. The devs are the managers, and we the players are the patrons who give feedback based on the dish (characters/perks/features) we are given to eat (see/use). I hope you can understand the nonsense I had just given you and I apologize if I made no sense.
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I don't think you should compare this to a restaurant.
It's completely fine to give feedback on these forums, however, how can you give genuine and legitimate feedback when you don't even know if it's actually that bad or not?
It's like when people give 1 star to a hotel and say "never been there, never heard of it". It's BS.
People should take a chill pill, wait for PTB, try it out and then post their feedback and constructive criticism instead of spitting out insults and other kinds of things at the devs.
I appreciate that you care about the game and the community, I do too, but the devs already have a lot of ######### to worry about. Stop making it harder by screaming at them when people didn't even play them yet. (This isn't directed toward you, I think your initial post was nice and you thought it through)
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I compared it to a restaurant because that is honestly the best comparison I know of. Also I am assuming that the restaurants choices are based on the people IN it, not outside. Meaning the Hotel example would be terrible.
To go back on the restaurant example.
If the managers decided they wanted to make a steaming pile of excrements a new dish (I'm not saying Legion is that pile of dung, tis but a example), you wouldn't be saying 'Oh well, let's wait until they actually serve it to judge it', no, you'd say 'Mayyyybee go back to the drawing board please.' The whole point of why I even made this thread was to express my concerns.
Think about it like this as well, in regards to feedback before the actual physical testing, the feedback here will be figuring out the kinks in the system.
The feedback on the PTB (and subsequent live game feedback) will iron out those kinks and make the Legion better then originally planned.
I do agree some folk need to chill, but the devs have clearly stated they WANT feedback. Thank you for being respectful about all this btw.
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They won't. They ignored all Feedback given in the past 3 PTBs. There's zero reason to believe it will be otherwise all of a sudden for 2.7.0
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Hitting a survivor multiple times = tunneling apparently, pretty pathetic that this is what survivor mains are trying to say.
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I didn't see this, HAHAHAHH 5 WHOLE SECONDS TO USE HIS POWER AGAIN, THE LONGEST COOOLDOWN IN TEH GAME HAHAHAHHAAHAHHA THIS IS A JOKE RIGHT? IS THIS A LATE APRIL FOOLS JOKE? LMFAOOOOO
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I never said only Killer feedback was ignored. I'm saying that feedback in general is ignored. The community gives feedback and the dev absolutely ignored it. Why should we even have a PTB and them asking us for Feedback, if they'll go through with their changes anyways?
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@Shad03 @ultimatefog @Ultima @Peanits
So is that ~5 seconds waiting time for that 25% or for the complete 100%
~20 seconds on a weakish ability like feral frenzy sounds rather long. But thats just because i dont know the duration:recharge ratio.
(Edit: god the tagging sucks on tablets)
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@Raptorrotas I believe the normal recharge will be like 15 seconds if completely used. If you only used like 25% of your bar, then the recharge will only take 5 seconds.
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I seem confused because 5 x 4 = 20
😐️
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@Raptorrotas It doesn't work exactly like that. At least, not for what is to be the Legion and what is the Spirit.
Example
The Spirit uses her power for exactly 10% of the total bar. It should only take 3 seconds or less to refill it again.
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So, they didn't listen to the Spirit or Clown feedback? What's with all hate from you recently doc?
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@Raptorrotas actually it would be an 8 second cooldown. 3 of those seconds are the stun so only 2 are the recharge. Not that the 5 seconds is an official time or anything so take that with a grain of salt.
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Uh, no? Legion can be outran as it is, no need to add a even EASIER counter.
Just admit you're trash and can't counter Legion even when they don't have any add-ons, I've looked through some of your other comments. Which I will respond to.
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Something I just thought of. If Frenzy hits on already hit survivors no longer count. Will Legion still automatically lose the power if they do hit someone who they already hit? Sometimes people purposely body block so you don't get the 2nd hit on a new survivor AND go into cooldown. Legion has to at least not lose the power right? If not Legion is not only objectively the worst killer but on another level in terms of bully potential. That would mean there is ZERO reason to not try to block other survivors from taking the hit.
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Very good question and you should copy and paste that message onto the Q&A if you hadn't already posted a question there.
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Survivor main confirmed, doesn't matter if you state otherwise. Either that, or you don't touch Legion or just use Frank's. Or go up against rank 20's.
The missed attacks is the one thing that we agree on it. I'm honestly fine with a 25% reduction. (Not like that isn't what happened already to begin with if you missed a attack.)
They didn't nerf BT, they made it become a Deep Wound timer so the Survivor could have the option to heal themselves.
"Removes tunneling"? Under these changes, you will be tunneled even further. You will be complaining even more, Survivor main. Especially sinced they nerfed Legion's Frenzy speed, something that Legion needed to be able to afford dropping chase and hitting other Survivors. As the devs intended.
And what chase exploits, those are already going away.
DW timer pausing when mending was nerfed when Legion was being released because it was too OP. Survivors would not have to sit still, they could just run, and run, and run. With no fear whatsoever of the timer.
You claim you want "counterplay", but you mean "I don't want to think against this Killer." You want a easy Killer to beat, even if they're weakened even MORE. They're weak enough as it is.
And yes, Legion should be able to walk up to others. How else will Legions be able to get downs?
"DW timer doesn't reduce with subsequent attacks, this is a good change, to discourage tunnelling and provides survivors to have some counterplay vs legion. The increased base movement speed to legion is to help the killer due to this change while chasing."
Here it is again. "Counterplay". You just want to destroy a Killer, that's all. You don't care about balance.
You wanna discourage tunneling? BUFF Legion. BUFF their ability to RUN while in Frenzy and HIT OTHER SURVIVORS.
There is PLENTY of counterplay, you just won't scatter or run in a straight line. You keep genrushing and refuse to split up in a trial.
Oh and, by your logic, any Killer injuring Survivors and never going for a second hit to down them is "tunneling".
"Movement speed helps"? Nah, I'm sure you're happy. A broken power and normal movement speed so you can loop all Killers for 5 gens again, right? This will just allow Legion to get looped for 5 gens. That's what you really mean by "counterplay". You won't remain stealthy and won't do basic counterplay.
Hey, here's a idea. Adapt? You are willing to adapt to every other Killer, why not Legion?
And yeah, you probably won't see DCs ever again. This community is mostly made of Survivors mains. They'll have so much fun being able to bully all Killers again, loop them for 5 gens, and genrush like crazy with no consequence. Don't forget SWF!
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This.
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Will now DH and MoM cancel FF?
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I'm a former developer, so 😝
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I have to agree with bubbascal
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*disregard* It appears this point was already discussed previously. As y'all were.
Post edited by Keene_Kills on0 -
So does this mean that unless I have the right addons, You are going to held an entire gameplay choice strategy away from me? Why not just allow the possibility for that any game play strategy but make it not optimal. At Least then I have the choice should an optimal situation arise instead of taking away choice from players.
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Clown and Spirit were 2.0.0 and 2.2.0 ergo NOT the last 3 PTBs that I mentioned. In addition to that, they also ignored MoM Feedback that was given during the leak of the Perk on console. I see no reason why they should suddenly care again with 2.7.0
I'm giving them negative Feedback because those changes are overall bad. The mediocre buffs are pretty much negated with new nerfs, just as they had done with Plague since her PTB. I'm won't be nice with the devs if they don't deserve it. They messed up a whole lot lately and have nothing but themselves to blame for it for once again, for the umpteenth time, not learning from their past.
Every time and without fault, that they listened to Survivors whining about Killers and their mechanics, the game went downhill. Sensible people would learn from that, yet the devs don't. The few times they didn't listen to outcries and tried to bring the balance back (1.5.0 and 2.0.0) the game experienced another prime time. Sensible people would learn from that, that that is what keeps the game alive, yet the devs don't.
At this point, I'm quite fed up with them, hence the mostly negative comments.
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The comment makes it quite clear that that is from 75% to 100%, meaning that Legion will have a Power cool-down of 20 seconds once depleted.
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Well, I waited, I watched, and now I can give feedback (because apparently you have to wait to be served a sandwich made of excrements to be able to know it's gonna be terrible [I, again, am not saying the new Legion is bad! But I find it dumb that people don't want to hear feedback before a product is out. Especially if they give no reason for me to believe they are knowledgeable on Legion]) For what it's worth I will always have a special place for Legion in the spot where my heart should be.
Unfortunately all of my points in the initial post has not really changed. The only GOOD thing is... Uh... The longer duration?
There are a lot of things I can say at the top of my head, but I won't waste any time. I'll give my feedback on what I've seen thus far.
Legion Cooldown Addons:
I have no idea why you nerfed them like that, especially when you gave the Legion a cooldown of four seconds. You say you play your own games, but I don't have Dead by Daylight on my (dying) computer and it HURTS seeing that long of a stun. Either revert the cooldown nerfs or change Legion's base cooldown back to 3 seconds because I feel physically ill seeing the stun.
Legion Speed Addons:
You changed it so that all the add ons that once gave faster Feral Speed now increase the range of the Killer Instinct reading range. The problem is that without the SPEED to make use of it, the effects are in fact useless. I'd suggest buff base Legion Feral Frenzy speed back up slightly/moderately, or allow the speed add ons to retain their original effects.
Legion Feral Missed cooldown:
I'll believe losing ALL the power gauge when missing is a bug that will be fixed, but why have it in the first place? The Legion are a group of delinquents, and I, as a young man, can lunge forward with a knife more times now then the Legion can. And that is embarrassing for a number of reasons.
Legion Power gauge:
One thing that never made sense to me, especially with this update, is why affect the gauge at all? We were all kids once, and some of us had just left the teenage life. So why is it that getting hit with pallets/missing attacks/hitting a person twice cost so much? Especially now that Feral Frenzy doesn't really do much?
I suggest every missed swing reduces the power gauge by 25%, allowing counterplay for survivors and a chance for Legions. Keep the damned 20 second recharge if you absolutely must, but either allow for Legion to use their power when they have AT LEAST 50% charge or reverse the effects of hitting a survivor, so that instead of LOSING gauge, you GAIN it. One or the other, I would never ask for both.
Pin Add Ons:
Which brings us to the pin add ons, I like that you made them useful, somewhat. The problem is, you have to willing to take a FOUR second stun just to give a debuff to someone, meaning you can't really spread the pain that well.
I would suggest either giving the effects ON HIT, or no longer taking you out of Frenzy when you do hit someone twice.
Optional- Hitting someone twice or more times should instead give you increasingly limited returns on your power gauge instead of taking you out of it, since there is legitimately no reason to actually hit someone twice without a pin add on, and is detrimental even with one.
Legion vault speeds:
I'm a bit effy about this, but I'm aware that it feels slower then it actually is, so I will withhold from making statements for now.
There you go. My thoughts and feelings (and suggestions) about how I feel about it. For those of you who are here on the 7th page here you go. But I shall copy and paste this onto the initial post.
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