The Legion Rework: This feedback is retired
This feedback is retired
This was my step by step thoughts on what I felt about the Legion Rework. I am a bit underwhelmed especially when seeing the abysmal changes made to the Legion.
People of the Fog,
Since the release of Chapter 11: The Darkness Among Us, we have received a lot of feedback, both positive and negative, regarding The Legion. With this update, we aim to bridge the gap in the extreme playstyle of this Killer and remove some of the ongoing frustrations when playing as The Legion as well as against The Legion.
The following changes allow for direct Survivor counter-play, reduce the potential for exploiting certain game mechanics, and bring The Legion’s default attributes in-line with other Killers, all while retaining the core vision of this Killer.
THE LEGION
- The Legion’s base movement speed is increased to 4.6m/s.
This is pretty good, I never understood how a group of rebellious teens moved so slowly. Teens are meant to be up and about, moving faster than adults should. 4.4 did not make sense.
- The Legion’s Terror Radius is increased to 32m.
It's protocol, I have no words for this but I don't think it's bad.
- Most of The Legion’s add-ons are rebalanced or reworked to account for the changes to Feral Frenzy and the Deep Wound status effect.
I hope the pin add ons are actually good.
- The Iridescent button addon no longer requires The Legion to apply Deep Wound for the effects to be active.
This is simply delicious. Thank you.
FERAL FRENZY UPDATE
- The recharge time of Feral Frenzy is increased and now requires a full power gauge to use it. Once it has been activated, the Legion must wait until the power gauge is full to be able to trigger the power again.
In line with a killer like the spirit. While I will miss activation at any time, for balance reasons I will accept this change.
- The duration of Feral Frenzy is increased. The Legion spends longer in frenzy.
Oh thank goodness, hopefully people will play this as intended now.
- The movement speed of Feral Frenzy is significantly reduced. The Legion moves faster than base speed while in frenzy, but not as fast as they did before.
Wasn't it like 120 movement? Well, as long as I could still use it to great advantage. I don't mind sooooo much.
- The Legion can no longer see blood pools (in addition to not seeing scratch marks) while in Feral Frenzy.
I... Don't know how to feel about this. It REALLY doesn't make sense that you can't see blood during a frenzy. That what made the Legion tolerable back then. But for balance reasons, I shall accept these terms.
- Feral Frenzy is immediately and automatically cancelled whenever The Legion misses an attack while in frenzy.
Due to a comment from @Peanits, I no longer really find this problematic. While I still do not agree with this completely, it's not as bad as I had first thought.
Don't ever say that I can't change my opinion.
DEEP WOUND UPDATE
- The Deep Wound timer pauses for survivors within The Killer's Terror Radius–regardless of whether they are in a chase or not.
I... Don't know how to feel about this. Especially with the fear it will affect Borrowed Time's Deep Wound timer. If it does, then the Entity has truly left us. Borrowed Time, in my opinion, was wrongly buffed and is the only reason why I would ever dislike the Legion.
- The Deep Wound timer pauses while Mending.
(Changed from a John Tron meme.)
- the Killer does not see the Deep Wound timer progress–only the Deep Wound bar to know that Deep Wound has been applied.
This is pretty bad. But for balance I will accept it.
- The Deep Wound timer progress is no longer reduced by regular Feral Frenzy attacks.
Annnnnd there you go. How I feel about all this. I could do a whole thing where I suggest what I think would fix the issues I see but I know it won't happen. And Freddy needs attention now.
Good day y'all.
Edit: Added in further review.
Well, I waited, I watched, and now I can give feedback (because apparently you have to wait to be served a sandwich made of excrements to be able to know it's gonna be terrible [I, again, am not saying the new Legion is bad! But I find it dumb that people don't want to hear feedback before a product is out. Especially if they give no reason for me to believe they are knowledgeable on Legion]) For what it's worth I will always have a special place for Legion in the spot where my heart should be.
Unfortunately all of my points in the initial post has not really changed. The only GOOD thing is... Uh... The longer duration?
There are a lot of things I can say at the top of my head, but I won't waste any time. I'll give my feedback on what I've seen thus far.
LEGION COOLDOWN ADDONS:
I have no idea why you nerfed them like that, especially when you gave the Legion a cooldown of four seconds. You say you play your own games, but I don't have Dead by Daylight on my (dying) computer and it HURTS seeing that long of a stun. Either revert the cooldown nerfs or change Legion's base cooldown back to 3 seconds because I feel physically ill seeing the stun.
LEGION SPEED ADDONS:
You changed it so that all the add ons that once gave faster Feral Speed now increase the range of the Killer Instinct reading range. The problem is that without the SPEED to make use of it, the effects are in fact useless. I'd suggest buff base Legion Feral Frenzy speed back up slightly/moderately, or allow the speed add ons to retain their original effects.
LEGION FERAL MISSED COOLDOWN:
I'll believe losing ALL the power gauge when missing is a bug that will be fixed, but why have it in the first place? The Legion are a group of delinquents, and I, as a young man, can lunge forward with a knife more times now then the Legion can. And that is embarrassing for a number of reasons.
LEGION POWER GAUGE:
One thing that never made sense to me, especially with this update, is why affect the gauge at all? We were all kids once, and some of us had just left the teenage life. So why is it that getting hit with pallets/missing attacks/hitting a person twice cost so much? Especially now that Feral Frenzy doesn't really do much?
I suggest every missed swing reduces the power gauge by 25%, allowing counterplay for survivors and a chance for Legions. Keep the damned 20 second recharge if you absolutely must, but either allow for Legion to use their power when they have AT LEAST 50% charge or reverse the effects of hitting a survivor, so that instead of LOSING gauge, you GAIN it. One or the other, I would never ask for both.
PIN ADD ONS:
Which brings us to the pin add ons, I like that you made them useful, somewhat. The problem is, you have to willing to take a FOUR second stun just to give a debuff to someone, meaning you can't really spread the pain that well.
I would suggest either giving the effects ON HIT, or no longer taking you out of Frenzy when you do hit someone twice.
Optional- Hitting someone twice or more times should instead give you increasingly limited returns on your power gauge instead of taking you out of it, since there is legitimately no reason to actually hit someone twice without a pin add on, and is detrimental even with one.
LEGION VAULT SPEEDS:
I'm a bit effy about this, but I'm aware that it feels slower then it actually is, so I will withhold from making statements for now.
There you go. My thoughts and feelings (and suggestions) about how I feel about it. For those of you who do not want to read all the way to the 7th page.
Comments
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@Detective_Jonathan and @not_Queen
Since you both wanted to see my thoughts.
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I think that the jontron memes are a little bit to far, i like the changes, because now it won't require them to use their power to down someone, this is turning them into a regular M1 killer.
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@Shad03 Thanks for the feedback! This is only on paper, I can't wait to see the feedback when you guys get to try it.
About this:
- The Deep Wound timer progress is no longer reduced by regular Feral Frenzy attacks.
If I am not mistaken, the addons still give you that power, it won't do it on basic frenzy attacks that aren't modified by addons. But let me verify.
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@Detective_Jonathan I used those memes because that is how I honestly feel.
Plus, how in the flip floppity flap are we going to get deranged pursuit now?
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@not_Queen If so, then fine, I'll edit the op and remove that John meme. But otherwise, I feel like The Legion was done a injustice to trying to get their achievements.
Thank you for taking the time to visit a pleb like me though ^^
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I understand, but the killer is fine now and has a counter play, which is something we all wanted from them, some kind of counter to them. Although, i have to admit, it's going to be funny when they have to recharge their whole gauge when they miss a frenzy hit lol.
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@Detective_Jonathan They had counters, and while this Legion (I'll admit) is more balanced, they were still given the shortest, dullest, end of the stick. I'll still play them, but that doesn't mean I'll be happy about the changes.
I think what ticks me off most is that I think Borrowed Time got unintentionally buffed again.
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The only thing I don't like is not seeing the progress of the survivor's mending bar and deep wound attacks not depleting the bar.
Now survivors will go unpunished for mending near the killer if the legion is in Deep Frenzy. It reeks of survivors using self care in front of Freddy.
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If the nurse misses her M1, shes punished for it with a stun. What's wrong with the legion being the same? Spam clicking your M1 in a frenzy isn't skill based it's pretty lame.
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I hate how devs make them an another loopable killer, even though that I hate to play against them.
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You can't wait? I hope you're prepared for another #########-storm. It's beyond me at this point how you guys continue to negate mediocre buffs with outrageous nerfs. Why can't you buff Legion the same way as you buffed Spirit? She became an excellent Killer and is enjoyed by the majority of the community. Take her as an example and stop with those incessant slow-downs and power reset conditions you've added to the last two Killers. If I could, I'd refund both Plague and Legion at this point and refuse to buy any future Killer until I'm sure he's not a crippled shadow of their PTB-self that you consider "fun".
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@Nova_Terra Unlike the nurse, The Legion can still be hit with pallets, and they don't need more heart attacks.
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@Nova_Terra The difference is Nurse can IMMEDIATELY go into another teleport. She doesn't have to wait to FULLY recharge it every miss.
Id happily accept if they just stunned you like leaving frenzy on a missed hit and having to have it fully charged to use, but didnt DEPLETE your power.
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Technically she can, and does get hit with them. Also you can just respect and hop over them, I dunno.
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Yeah that's a good point, a short stun or maybe a % based drain. I'm not sure how long the full recharge will take.
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@Shad03 Legion is still mid tier. If you forgot, let me remind you... You still get a FREE hit on the survivor at the start of a chase. I feel that these changes were a good addition but then again I am not an avid Legion player. We'll just have to wait and see what it actually feels like on the PTB
About the achievement, I'm not sure. They might just change it is my bet. @not_Queen ?
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This... all of this so much!
I'm so sad... RIP Legion 😥
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I think Development team are trying to kill the features of the Legion.
This update makes the Legion the Trapper without traps or more horrible something.
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Teach how to play against killer < Cry to nerf the killer
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- Feral Frenzy is immediately and automatically cancelled whenever The Legion misses an attack while in frenzy.
This is a deal breaker for me, I whiff so many times when in Frenzy, its not funny....
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Frenzy will be easily countered now. Legion is frenzy mode is easy to 360.
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So he's add on dependent now? That's a shame. what's the rarity of the item that will let him bring down the mend timer with frenzy hits?
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Looks like we need to enjoy Legion before this rip-nerf. It's a pity. I have invested a lot in him. P3, all perks. It remains only to spend all add-ons and offerings and bury.
I loved him for not able to be pallet looped. But it looks like we will have another "Spirit Fury+Enduring" meta killer.
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Great, so now a Killer that used to be decent is now add-on dependant...
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@not_Queen This is really not good Queen.
At the very least legion should keep the ability to damage the mend bar in frenzy at base.
This Legion has no purpose/role now...what are they meant to be/do?...
Frenzy does nothing now because deep wounds does nothing. :/
Legion has no power now besides an easy first hit.
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xD I love how you described them, its all fun and games until the after the movement speed change, then it gave me a deep wound straight through my heart
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@Shad03 The deletion of Frenzy on a missed attack was the only place I drew the line.
As I've said in other threads already, I have top-of-the-line internet. Survivors in my lobbies are generally all green ping. And in the actual matches, I still have some survivors lagging like all hell. I've missed swings that looked like clear hits because of that crap.
And now doing so with Legion screws Feral Frenzy?
I've lost all confidence in this team actually understanding the tech of their own game, even though posts have been made and made about the lag. If I could, I would Steam refund this DLC now. As it stands, I am very reluctant to purchase more from them in the future. I don't care what Perks they include. I already work-around not having all Perks unlocked, I'll keep on doing so.
If this is how the team fails to understand issues in the game, I have zero confidence in the upcoming Freddy rework.
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I like the legion change.
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No numbers were released with this communication. Just the general changes.
You will all be able to test the Legion Update in the upcoming PTB.
We are currently gathering all your questions and we'll try to answer them either later this week in an addition to the original post or next week during a livestream.
Keep the feedback coming in :)
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I kinda feel like they should increase his lunge range in Frenzy to compensate. I can for sure see some unfortunate outcomes with this new one hit mechanic.
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Might as well delete him now and refund those who purchased the killer.
Recommending those who do not own the chapter to not bother.
No point in purchasing a powerless killer.
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@not_Queen What about their stun time after using the feral franzy? It takes already too long.
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My only problem is the power depletion when you miss. Someone compared this to nurse and to that I say sure you get stunned as nurse but you just blink again. Legion has to let the frenzy completely recharge.
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@not_Queen Also since you can no longer down the survivor with Feral Frenzy, maybe do your team consider to give them something more special about their power? Now it's just only about stabbing.
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I'm 100% certain that their cooldown add-ons will be nerfed to compensate for the 115% MS.
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Wow....Amazing...
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@not_Queen question: what's the point of using Feral Frenzy on a survivor who already got hit by it if it doesn't down them nor reduce the timer? Just curious, not trying to be rude
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My issue is the missed attack penalty you can add a penalty but getting juked in frenzy is pretty common so it should be a decrease not a full miss and your power is wasted.
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@not_Queen After this update, what is the difference against Spirit? It looks just no power killer. I refund the Legion DLC if I could.
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@Shad03 here's hoping they fix the extreme sound issues because stridor is going to be a thing I'm guessing it's bad enough on killers currently even with it equipped the chase music over powers everything plus the weird footsteps
May I ask if your on pc? I hope so because I really want to know your thoughts on the ptb when it comes
🐷
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I had hoped to see a legion buff, instead they destroy them.
I too would like a refund on the dlc if this moves forward. I bit the bullet on Freddy, not doing it twice.
This is the sort of thing I just delete a game and move on from. Tired of devs listening to the loudest players, not the most intelligent.
Sigh. It's the stigma of the newer Dev generation: if we get tired of hearing about it, Nerf it.
That's not balance, that's lazy development.
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The miss one time and lose your greatest power is a horrible decision.
I assume this is to fix the players that abused the swing as many times as you can to increase movement? this could have been solved so much easier.
Would we take Michael out of Tier 3 if he misses an attack? This logic is what kills me.
I play Legion on rotation and am not a main and think this is a huge over reaction.
I also would have done away with Mend Timers, Survivors don't want to mend or waste time healing, I would have just made his attack an infliction based, See no evil - blindness, Hear no evil (lul), Speak no evil (terror radius reduction) and just add them to each attack that gets hit while in frenzy. All go away as you recover (30, 60, 90)
could have been so much more creative....
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When survivors realize you are using Legion they will, like most decent ones do now, avoid grouping up.
At this point, sans add-ons, Legion's power may as well read, "You get a free hit, then, regardless of your next action, you take a stun and must continue the chase as a powerless M1 killer."
Seems fun and exciting to me.
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I wish I could say I was on pc. But I'm a PS4 pleb. Well, M&A is still gonna be the norm on Legion I guess. I'm both happy and really sad with the change. Honestly, I just hope the complete depletion is removed. Becuase that would be unfun.
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So it’s just a mobility tool? Get the first hit in ezpz and then just walk at them like a chimp?
So it’s Hillbilly with slower movement and no instadown.
Hey, maybe they can let exposed effects work with it since you lose the whole power of you whiff.
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And this here is exactly why I will not be spending any more money on this Game. Every new chapter brings a killer with a useless power and/or band aid fixes in the form of perks. Not to mention new perks that counter mechanics/other perks that already have enough counters (BBQ&CHILLI).
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Is it just me, or are there A TON of brand new accounts posting about how "horrible" the Legion changes are?
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Gotta love them alts.
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@Carpemortum I actually noticed the same thing. Didnt not realize there were so many Legion out there. Kinda scary
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Also I want to point out to anyone who thinks Legion remains slow (despite the clear addition of 4.6 which is 115 movement), Legion did get a speed buff. Making them essentially a Trapless Trapper who can occasionally vault a pallet or window.
I main Trapper, and let me tell you I'll probably not feel that much of a difference now.
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