"all while retaining the core vision of this Killer. "
What is the core vision of the Legion exactly? To spread around a bunch of pointless damage? Because that is all that's left. It's completely impossible to down a Survivor with Frenzy.
Killers have already discarded that as a poor tactic and adapted past that. In response, Survivors did nothing but scream at the Devs, AGAIN, until the Devs plan on simply removing the tactics that Killers adapted to. Leaving Legion with nothing except to be looped.
I'm not even talking about moonwalking. Survivors were losing their ######### over a Legion taking the time down them with Frenzy too.
Comments
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....actually yes. To spread damage and cause more than one person to be unable to work on gens. Split pressure.
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So the problem is a poor vision from the start?
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@Tzeentchling9 The problem was a poor execution, and a lot of hyped hopes from the community. Everyone wanted a ghostface style killer (which it wasn't and upset a lot of people), and assumed Legion would fit that bill because of the teaser. Killer mains wanted something to split pressure and slow down gens. The core vision of Legion was going to be that.
They just didn't quite do it right, and took in a lot of (extremely and unnecessarily angry) feedback, to try and come back to the core idea.
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You were never supposed to use frenzy to down survivors. If that’s how you played them you were playing them wrong, hence the frustration; hence this rant post.
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Changing the Deep wounds from a threat to a mere time waster would be fine IF they also made it so that Mending takes significantly longer, or is affected by Killers healing de-buff perks like NC, SB, or Coulrophobia. As it currently is, 10 seconds is hardly a threat, especially when the timer no longer ticks down while mending, or being in the killers TR.
I hope the devs at least also re-buff Thanatophobia to the previous PTB version which was fine and needed, but they chickened out on it at last moment (probably due to How legion currently is).
Overall, Idk about these changes and whether or not they will be good in any way since I'm mostly seeing them as bad, but we'll see how it turns out in the PTB... which is "hopefully" coming this week.
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Wow the accuracy of this, amazing. Repeat stabbing to down was the one thing most people complained there was no counterplay for and wasn't fun etc etc now it's changed. I think not necessarily all of the changes are needed or necessary but this was one of them, their power isn't a down power, what a surprise. I play as legion and don't multistab and can get consistent kills, I play as a survivor and while I don't DC at legion and think there is counterplay, franks mix tape and stabaholic/moonwalk legions needed to go.
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So the Legion was supposed to be #########, but the Devs underestimated the Killers' ability to adapt. Got it.
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what else is there to say to you, I mean it seems as if you have your mind set that the survivor mains and devs are out to get you or something. Just adapt like the rest of us.
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I see no reason to adapt anymore. History keeps repeating itself. Maybe Killers should start mass DCs as well.
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How else are you supposed to down them with 110% movement speed? How often do you down people as Huntress without ever throwing a hatchet?
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Hmmn or may'be the only history repeating itself is certain killers mains refusing to get better and instead rant over every change. But by all means go ahead and do that and go play a different game.
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I never used Frenzy to down, and I think that's the intention... But something about the changes doesn't sound right. I'll have to see how they function in game, but it seems like a lot of needless changes are added into the more proper ones.
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So you are saying that legion is getting nerfed out of nowhere, not like %99 of the survivor mains refused to get better instead they complained about how legion is cancer to play against and needed to be removed from the game. Umm what ?
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Legion has always felt like a time-wasting killer. I wonder how the update will retain this unique feature
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This is a game. You can't force people to play a gane they don't enjoy just so that you can play. 4 people have to suffer to entertain you?
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You mean "more than one newbie" to not work on gens? Experienced players don't even heal and rush gens instead with adrenaline ready.
You seem to not have played against rank 1s who know what they are doing, not to even mention swf cancer...
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Why do you say it like it is in the past?
Pretty sure all those DC's mean that they still refuse to get better...lol. And I'm talking not just about legion.
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@BigBubs I have, in fact played at Rank 1 on both sides. It's funny, not EVERY game goes with the survivors NEVER seeing each other. They cross paths often enough.
It's up to you as Legion to build and play around the TR helping to FIND other survivors.
The increase in TR also helps with the players being further apart.
Other problem is, SWF cancer squads aren't NEARLY common enough (<10%) to use as an argument against Legion changes.
That is the vision of Legion. To spread damage. It's up to the devs to make it work right, in the current "meta" while still maintaining that vision.
However, in reference to the changes, I feel like they will be closer to that vision that what we currently have.
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So your saying that Legion being abused non stop is somehow the survivors fault because 99% of Legions including you refused to actually get better. Well glad we agree that the exploiting needed to be fixed and no you'll have to play Legion the way they were meant to.
You'll have to spread the damage around and play with your brains and strategize, not roll face across keyboard and have an easy match.
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The core vision of Legion was to tag a survivor and move on to the next. Tag one, move on to the next, to make the game last longer; all the while keeping pressure by having people mend and down a survivor.
Tunnelling, and moon walking wasn't the vision this killer had set off on, and I remember because everyone was excited for Legion because he was going to be the killer that would put a halt on tunnelling.
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@ColgateAdvancedWhite Probably not even close to as good as the current Live version Legion. I mean, Deep Wound won't tick down while in the terror radius so you might as well just keep working on that generator you're working on after Legion stabs you and runs after someone else he can see with Killer Instinct.
There's no danger until he runs away far enough that you'll no longer be in the terror radius.
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Ok, spreading damage and slowing the game down is the Legion's core vision, why aren't we buffing that?
Why is it just a straight removal of everything that makes Deep Wounds more lethal directly? No, the increased duration doesn't count because they are "significantly" reducing the movement speed too(it's the same as the Wraith built in Windstorm "buff"). Killers and Survivors already showed it was pointless to spread damage, make that aspect better.
Why doesn't Deep Wounds do anything except make you stop for 10 seconds? Doesn't it take longer to mend? Require another Survivor? Affect you gen repair speed until you are fully healed? SOMETHING?
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or what will actually happen is no one will play legion anymore lol
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what people realised is that the original intended strategy sucked huge donkey balls, and killer players instead had to moonwalk to even make the killer serviceable
now he's just going to be complete #########
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Exactly, hence why am asking why aren't we buffing an already proven to be ######### strategy instead of just taking away all the tools killers used to adapt past it.
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because you just need to git gud baby killer or insert any other snarky response dodging the question here
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Well there's that too and this is a bad thing how again? 😁
But in all seriousness I want to see what the actual numbers are and what the reworked addons look like. Perhaps they'll even incorporate the missed attacks change I suggested.
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@Peanits Why aren't we improving the Legion's core vision? Why are we only removing the tools Killers adapted to move past that limitation?
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These changes do actually work with the original design of the killer. Compared to before, The Legion will be able to travel further while in Feral Frenzy, allowing them to apply Deep Wound to multiple survivors, while also discouraging using Feral Frenzy repeatedly against one survivor. At the same time, The Legion also gets increased movement speed to follow up and get a down.
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You can already give them an infinite duration on Feral Frenzy with increased ms. Feral Frenzy no longer downs survivor, so this one of those buff will be a very good change. And 25% debuff speed for survivors on repairing gens until they'll will be healed after they get hit by a frenzy attack. Don't make them as the wasted concept.
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And here's why that argument doesn't work outside of your fairy tale DbD game in which Survivors apparently fail to somehow even run a straight line because they are so bad:
Distance covered is a variable of time multiplied with speed.
Since you guys will increase the duration, but significantly lower the speed, the resulting end distance can be rightfully assumed to be near equal to what we currently have or even worse in the WCS.
Combine that with it taking Legion longer to cover the same distance in Feral Frenzy as it did before, thanks to the significantly lowered speed, the end result is that Survivors will have more time to reach a safe spot before Legion is close enough to land an attack. Even when Frenzy then runs out and Legion can chase them faster thanks to 4.6m/s, it doesn't change the fact that instead of having applied Deep Wound, the Survivor is still healthy and safe and sound behind a pallet or a window or at a jungle gym, all things that are abundant on the maps and easy to reach for any Survivor that isn't an utter noob and lurking about the low ranks.
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I'm sorry but these changes are terrible and only serve to hurt the Legion more than actually change it for the better. Please reconsider what you're doing as this only proves to me that Legion is dead after this goes through.
Missed attacks should never cause their power to deplete, their speed should remain as it is while in Frenzy, and frenzy hits should do damage like it currently does. It takes four hits to down and you become stunned half of those hits should you decide to go that route. Turning them into an M1 killer that is easily loopable with a pointless power is ridiculous.
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Missing an attack will not cause your power to be depleted, it would only end your Feral Frenzy. For example, if you missed your attack at 75% charge, you would only have to wait ~5 seconds to use your power again.
We are putting these changes on the PTB before they go live. We can always make changes based on the feedback we receive. I would strongly suggest giving it a try before coming to any conclusions.
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Again, you guys ignored feedback in the past couple of PTBs, so why should we still believe you actually care about what we have to say?
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@DocOctober My guess is that they look at both feedback and statistics from the PTB it self and decide on a middle ground.
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As always, we will be ignored, because our opinions are usually ''completely exaggerated'' :)
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This post wins the thread.
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make survivors with deep wound cannot touch a generator (like doctor's t3 madness)
why repair a generator if you have a knife inside you
Here's my thoughts.
+Legion's TR will be 32m, they wont be scared of deep wound depleting
+Legion cannot see scratch marks and blood pools when on frenzy, at least sound boost of wounded survivors (like stridor of nurse) so we can still track down the survivors that we are chasing
the current Legion is too weak without add ons but too strong with one. don't over nerf my susie
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Completely ignoring any Feedback is going for a middle ground? I don't think so, buddy.
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@Peanits Even ignoring why increased duration at the cost of speed doesn't make a good buff, that still leaves the fact that spreading damage doesn't do anything.
Again, all these changes do is go out of their way to remove all the tactics that Killers adapted because the core vision was pointless. Why aren't we buffing the core vision?
Post edited by Tzeentchling9 on6 -
@Peanits Why bother? You've already shown time and time again that you don't care whatever feedback we provide through the PTB.
You might as well just push the changes live and don't care more about it. It'll have the same outcome, except less community frustration from being ignored once more.
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That's not true. The Spirit, for instance, went into the PTB with a pretty negative reception, then after receiving some minor changes, became one of the more popular killers. There may not be time to make massive changes to something on the PTB, which is why they will sometimes take a while to implement (Legion, for example), but minor tweaks are definitely possible.
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Than we need definitely a lot of this minor tweaks.
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Spirit was PTB 2.2.0
You've ignored Feedback in all PTBs since and including 2.4.0.
So what we keep saying, that you ignore feedback and don't care, is currently very much true.
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When can we expect "minor changes" to the Plague? I mean, nobody plays her now, because how much you nerfed her, and our feedback says you should do something about it. Rever the nerf, or something else.
Everybody, during the PTB, said she is fine, but you still wrecked her due to some survivors crying (really a few, 90% of survivors were OK with the Plague, and that says something).
Same for Clown - nobody plays him.
Freddy?
Bubba?
Trapper?
They all need changes, and we are consistantly telling you this.
Why are you so stubborn in making changes? You have a pretty big team of people, why can't you project, propose and make some changes to those killers/balance/survivors? I mean, more than one times per 1,5-3 months? In other games developers can make patches even everyday. And they are teams of 1-10 people, not so large like yours.
There are plenty of issues in this game - genrush, hatch, camping (although it is fair in most cases), looping, survivors having way stronger perks than killers,despite it is 4vs1, lack of stealth gameplay and too much "YOLO" gameplay with looping and taunting the killer, infinities... I can go on an on, where are those changes?
I know, Peanits, that you are a good guy, and you have nothing to do with said things - this post is not directed towards you, but towards the people in charge of making changes.
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They can't afford to make patches every day. DBD is a console game now, so xbox takes their cut if you submit too many patches too quickly. And it isn't cheap.
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They can make PC changes weekly, and console changes monthly, it won't hurt anyone, only can do good, because PC would "test" said changes.
Still, this is not an excuse.
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@Peanits One of the few rare cases. She has been nerfed since with the loud glass noise when moving out of her Husk when phasing and I don't down many more small nerfs will strike her still. Not to mention the sound getting ######### over every other patch, screwing Spirit players up royally.
If you're all so eager to listen to feedback, why haven't anything been done to help boost Clown? Or Trapper? Or Leatherface? We keep hearing genuinely good feedback on a weekly basis on each and every one of those but nothing's acknowledged.
Its all just reassuring PR talk until it hurts Behavior's revenue stream.
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I think we can all agree that Legion needed a change. There wasn’t much in the game less boring than playing against a Legion that hits you in FF and then just chases you repeatedly hitting you again in FF until your bar is depleted. It’s boring and has no counterplay.
BUT, you remove that ability, and what you’re left with is a killer with no power. “Spreading damage around” is pointless because good survivors don’t heal. So as a killer it’s just going to be a generic M1 killer who will get looped to death.
As boring as it was for survivors to play against Legion, it’s equally boring for M1 killers to begin the loop cycle again and again. Especially a killer like Legion who has no agency to end the chase. Trapper can set traps. The chainsaw bros can chainsaw. Spirit can mindgame. Etc etc. Legion will have nothing. Their only power will come from add-ons, and a killer relying on add-ons is not good design.
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LUL... Says... "You ignore our feedback!"
Peanits: No we don't.. take Spirit for example...
DocOctober: I'm not talking about THAT feedback.. I'm talking about all the other feedback!
DEVS.... <toss their hands up in the air, papers fly everywhere...>
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