Think about it
The typical argumentation when a Killer gets gen rushed or looped is "It's your fault for not switching targets / for not applying enough gen pressure". The fact that it was the Survivors deciding to use these playstyles gets ignored. It's just normal to gen rush and loop, so it seems.
So let's use the same argumentation for Survivors that get camped and tunneled. It's their fault getting caught / not playing stealthy, right? Let's just ignore the fact that the Killer decided to use these playstyles. After all, it's just normal to camp and tunnel.
My point is: many Survivors use playstyles that are very frustrating to deal with as Killer but they excuse it with "YOU have the possibilities to stop it from happening IF...". I don't care if I can stop looping or not, it's about the fact that you use those playstyles knowing damn well how annoying it is for me to deal with them. It amuses you to loop a Killer for 3 gens, to see how they slowly become frustrated, right?
I recently receive a lot of hate for tunneling and camping while I have to deal with gen rushing and looping every single match and I just don't get the logic behind that.
So my simple question for the players that regularly insult Killers for using such playstyles; Why do you expect Killers to care about your fun while you're using playstyles that provide an unfun experience for the Killer?
Comments
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While I'm not favoring either side, I think all players are entitled to play whatever they deem as fun or enjoyable to themselves. If you enjoy keeping the Killer distracted for your teammates in the risk of de-pipping without doing objectives, go for it. If you enjoy keeping pressure onto Survivors by prioritizing one at a time in risk of getting rushed if not focusing on gens, do it.
You bought the game for a reason: To enjoy it. You shouldn't be held back from doing what you enjoy, Killer or Survivor.
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Absolutely. I'm just confused because of all the insults.
It seems my intellectual power is too weak to comprehend.
Two teams playing against each other. One team decides to use playstyles that are quite frustrating and annoying for the other side. So the other side decides to use frustrating and annoying playstyles aswell.
The result? The first team starts to flame the other team because they used frustrating and annoying playstyles AFTER they did so themselves. #########?
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@Roobnus I say let them insult. For one, it's just the forums. For two, I have post-match chat permanently closed, so they can't insult me anyway. They're talking to a wall.
If I feel like tunneling or camping in a game, I will. I don't care about pipping in the least. Whether or not a survivor player pips isn't my concern. I bought the game so I can play and have fun, and if sometimes my way to have fun in a particular match means my target doesn't, that doesn't concern me. This is a PvP game, not a co-op PvE game. Someone else's fun is not my primary concern in this genre.
And yes, I expect the survivors I face to prioritize their fun as well. At such point it makes my game not fun on too consistent a basis, that's fine. I have many other games and just play them. Not a big deal. I don't main any single game anymore, anyway.
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I asked mysef this question long time ago and I found out that Survivors dont have anything else to do, it's the Devs fault. Killers can camp, tunnel or play 'fair", they have 3 options. Survivors can just do gens, that's it.
If the devs implemented a new mandatory objective, camping wouldnt be a problem and genrush wouldnt be either because there would be no reason to camp and devs could even add invincibility frames for the unhooker because killers would actually have time to switch targets and go after multiple people. Right now the only killers that can do that are Billy and Nurse (main reason why I only play Billy btw). But Devs keep creating mid tier killers that dont stand a chance against genrush, therefore making them camp to at least ensure 1 kill...
That's why this end-game collapse is my last hope to stay in the game, if killers have a chance to get at least 3 kills (which is a win on the killer side) if they go after multiple people they wouldnt be forced to either camp or just play 2 characters...
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@tt_ivi_99 Objectively seen you're right, gens are the only things they can do.
They don't HAVE to repair gens though, there are still totems and chests they can go look for. It's their decision to solely focus on gens, knowing damn well that it triggers Killers and most likely ends up in them camping the first Survivor if 2-3 gens already popped on first hook.
I agree with you, secondary objectives could really help but that would results in longer matches. Longer matches trigger Survivors because it would be significantly harder to escape.
I don't think that's going to happen.
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'They don't HAVE to repair gens though, there are still totems and chests they can go look for. It's their decision to solely focus on gens, knowing damn well that it triggers Killers and most likely ends up in them camping the first Survivor if 2-3 gens already popped on first hook.'
... Or they do it because it helps them survive? Since it's their objective after all.
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It wouldnt be harder to escape, survivors literally come to the game with flashlights to get the killers attention and run him for all 5 gens, if those survivors used stealth instead they would last A LOT more.
Secondary objectives would make them think twice before trying to run a killer for 5 gens...
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You can choose to not tunnel and camp. There are 3 other survivors. You can't choose to not survive. All you can do is hiding, gens and loop. Which you will only experience the latter two.
Camping pallets and running straight lines is as effective as respecting pallets and turning wide corners. Doing gens and looping is the only thing survivors can do. While the killer can choose who to focus. And the difference to focusing gens is, it doesnt matter if a gen pops early. Wether you repair two gens to 50% or one gen to 100% doesn't have longterm effects. Tunnelcamping a survivor wins 90% of the game and is irreversible.
Actually, im surprised how some killermains play killer if they get triggereed by looping. Thats the whole gameplay and the main thing you can get good at. Wether its looping yourself or learning all the mindgames and tricks to counter tiles. If it werent for looping, dbd would just be runnning in straight lines until the killer catches up. Wow, much replay value.
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Smartest thing I've heard in a long while, I just go buy the logic of:
If you decide to gen rush, I will kill rush or change my perks to prevent it.
If you wish to loop me, I will create a build to prevent that if I see it an often occurrence.
I know that you have 4 survivors to deal with so all that can be done is learn what works best with YOU, survivors don't make the rules, don't ever be afraid to do a certain thing or carry by certain builds because that's your job, to kill as it is their job to survive.
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We can ignore gameplay objectives for a moment and focus on the part that's about "providing a funny gaming experience for everyone", which is something Survivors expect Killers to do but never consider doing the same in return.
- Dealing with loopers and gen rushers is not fun
- Dealing with 4x DS, MoM, Adrenaline is not fun
- Dealing with flashlights and instaheals is not fun
- Dealing with SWFs / Voice Communication is not fun
Now it you think about it, that's exactly what the majority of Survivors is doing on a regular basis, right? It doesn't matter if it's required to win or not, let's just focus on the "fun for the opposite side". Most players claim that they "just play for fun".
Do they play for THEIR fun or do they play for the fun for everyone? Do they consider that their playstyles might not be fun for the Killer? And if they know that, why do they still expect the Killers to care about THEIR fun even though they don't care about the Killers fun at all? And even more importantly, why are they insulting players that don't care about their fun, all while they certainly don't care about random players fun either?
E: Sorry I know I'm kinda late, I was busy the weekend :)
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It's a match where both sides want to win. The frustration comes from the game not being balanced. If the survivors had a 2nd objective, then the killers would have more time and we would be closer to a balanced game experience.
The survivors aren't to blame when they genrush, they only want to win. But it would help a lot if the players would acknowledge that the killer is at a big disadvantage. It only adds to the frustration and doesn't help anybody when they tell killers they need to improve while the killer knows that he doesn't have a fair chance winning.
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I understand that the meta is looping & gen rushing for an easy, efficient win. That's not my point.
Again, why do exactly those types of Survivors complain about Killers tunneling and camping?
I'm asking the players that insult Killers for using those playstyles why they are insulting them. Why do they think they deserve a Killer that cares about their fun when they don't give a ######### about the Killers fun?
As Killer, I can win over a Survivor easily by just facecamping them, yet that's not what I'm doing because I understand it's not fun for the Survivor, right? So why don't Survivors appreciate that and stop gen rushing/loop in return? They don't give a ######### about my playstyle unless it gets them killed.
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The reason survivors complain about this is, well survivor mentality is a wonderful thing. They think it's okay for them to use any set of perks and use and strategy but the killer isn't allowed to do the same.
The reason being is they claim it's not fun for them. This is the only game i've ever seen where survivors seem to believe their ability to have fun relies on the other side. I have only one answer to that.
It is not my job to ensure you have fun. It's my job to kill you. If you want to have fun, play with friends, have a few drinks, you have discord for a reason. If that doesn't work, play monopoly.
The bigger problem is how toxic survivors get in end game chat when they don't even know what the killer's objective maybe. "Oh i'm so good, that match was ez, you suck", etc. Half the time killers maybe just working on a daily, working on prestiging their killers so don't have the perks they need yet, etc.
I've had situations like that, lost badly cause i just prestiged, worked on a daily, leveling up and got beaten badly. Got the exact same group of swf and now either had the perks i need or just switched to a different killer and utterly destroyed them.
I said this in another topic but the other problem is if you watch the biggest streamers on twitch, even the fog whisperers, are the most toxic people in this game.
I will have to admit i used to be toxic because i wasn't having fun. So my frustration would make me angry and toxic. Then i realized something, the reason i'm so frustrated is because people have been telling me i have to play a certain way. That if i don't play that way then the other side doesn't have fun.
Do you know when i finally became less frustrated, less toxic and started having more fun? When i stopped listening to people tell me how i should be playing, played the way i want to and generated my own fun.
When people finally learn their fun is something that should be totally be created by themselves and not other people, the game will be far less toxic.
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Again the survivors only objective its gens to escape nothing more thats why it exist as for looping you need to mindgame them its like saying ill be here not doing the loop to make the chace more longer look i dont know why ppl complain about looping but i do understand gen rush looping have a counter its called bloodlust gen rush you cant do nothing they should make 2 objective for survivors but that makes a bit harder for solo players so i dont know
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...another person not being able to read / understand what they read...
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The killer can stop the chase and help himself not getting looped (not that i can loop anyone, i'm a scrub) but the survivor can't help themselves not get camped, what am i gonna do? cast a non camping spell on you?
i will get caught sometimes and ofc i deserve the hook, after all the killer is doing their job i can't be mad at getting caught its my fault. but i don't think camping is a survivor's fault unless ofc you're punishing them for being toxic then i get it, camp them and lose your game.
camping is not a compression here at all, its just poor
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Also, some good survivors can stop the loop too (not me, me suck bad words) i get what you're saying but i don't think its compared to camping.
both sides can play better, what i mean it.
you have a choice when you're being looped, you can walk away and end
when a survivor is camped they don't have a choice, they can't walk away and end the camping
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im a clown main since hes good at anti loops i mind game all the time and some survivors do good at escaping but man its true you need to mind game and also killers have bloodlust now you will say bloodlust its useless i dont see that but o well ppl want more ez game as killer
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Wow playing like this should be really positive for the dbd community *Rolls Eyes*
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That's why there are 4 Survivors in total.
Once you're on the hook you have absolutely no power over the outcome of it (unless you manage to kobe / deliverance) but otherwise you totally rely on the other players of the trial.
You want to be able to make the Killer stop camping / tunneling you, but that's like a Killer asking Survivors to stop looping / gen rushing them. You can't force a playstyle upon other players. You can, however, use playstyles that decrease the chances of getting camped or tunneled by providing a funny gaming experience for the Killer aswell, even if it might result in you having lower chances of escaping. That's exactly what you're asking Killers to do by asking them not to camp or tunnel: lowering their chances of getting kills.
You people keep excusing looping and gen rushing with "the most effective way to play Survivor / get the objective done" but you forget that tunneling / camping can also be the most effective way to play Killer.
------- So why are you insulting Killers for doing so?
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I believe this is why this community can be so toxic at times. We have two sides that have opposite goals to achieve and will do anything to go there. Which means automatically that it will be unfun for the other side. This is almost unavoidable since it's the game's fault.
Of course it will not always apply since there are survivors and killers out there that just don't 'try hard' at the game and make it pleasant for everyone.
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Very true.
The thing is, when I don't camp or tunnel I still get gen rushed and looped, often lose the matches and end up with 0-1 kills and then the Survivors laugh about my "lack of skill" because I failed to get more kills.
Then I get tired and start to camp / tunnel to get the kills they're so desperately asking for and then I get insulted as camper / tunneled and incredibly toxic comments like "I hope you get cancer" or "get raped to death" and stuff like that. I know that I can hide the end game chat, that's not my point.
I want to know why the toxic players, mostly Survivors, are like that. Why are they so toxic in every possible way. It's not about gen rushing or looping, camping or tunneling, it's about why insulting players for using such a playstyle in such a horrible way? And why are they not getting punished for that behaviour?
I have never experienced anything like that before, to be it's obvious that both sides are using any playstyle they feel like is most effective in a situation to get the best ouf of it. I just never expected such reactions, it makes no sense to me.
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Its okay, eastern is a busy time.
Regarding the fun problem. That is dependant on the triggerability of the killer. There are some shortfused killers around who get triggered by palletlooping, which is literally core survivor gameplay.
Thats a mentality problem of killers, if they cant deal with killer gameplay. Getting triggered by palletlooping or calling palletlooping an exploit. lmao
If a survivor is teabagging with instaheals and looping infinites, sure give him the good old tunnelcamp. But most survivors are pretty open at the start, they play like a dick if you do.
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OP is right. Survivors don't care about killers which is expected. They think of you as bots to practice their toxicity on. That's what I learned since day one of playing this game. If you try to "play nice" or "fair" by their arbitrary standards, not only do you lose, you still get BS messages to go with toxic gameplay. The game already punishes killers if you try do good without dealing with attempts to mine salt. That's why I have no qualms tunneling and face-camping. At first it wasn't personal, as I thought the objective of the killer was to kill and not be a point farm for survivors. Even winning isn't enough for them. They have to go out of their way to let you know "you suck", "GG EZ", "git gud", etc. So killers should return the favor in game.
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