Hook Camping is a Symptom of Wider Issues
I’ll try to keep this short because I’d really appreciate if the devs gave it a skim. I play this game more than any other and am pretty passionate about it.
Hook camping is not a fun thing to do or have done to you. Everyone knows so, however I believe it’s a symptom of a wider issue, maybe best characterized in the following two ways:
1) There’s too much incentive to check hooks as killer
This is especially true for survivors hooked pretty central in the map and of killers with high mobility because it costs less and less time to do. I’ll swing close-ish to hooks after most unsuccessful gen patrols I do, or head straight for hook if I catch even faint scratch marks moving in the hooked’s general direction, or whenever a gen is completed, or when the hooked reaches 20% time remaining and be terribly likely to ensure a kill/down. The reward and likeliness of finding survivors unhooking under these circumstances especially makes, if not face camping, then prioritizing the hooked as an objective tantalizing and efficient.
2) The unhooked almost invariably pays for bad unhooks
To some extent the hooked is at the mercy of his allies. This is how it ought to be to some extent, being unable to contribute to objectives and taking time to unhook safely. It is taken too far, however, and into pretty unfun territory when a hooked survivor can be killed without chance to recover by any of the following common scenarios: a) survivor in chase close by/within eyeline of killer; b) unhooked <20 meters from the killer; c) face-camped by killer; d) allies are so far away they have to sprint straight toward the hook to stand a chance at an unhook, thus causing scenario a or b. In each of these cases, yes it is possible that killers will attack the unhooker, but that’s pretty much just to try and be nice, which should not be the balancing factor of a game. There’s no reason not to kill the one who’s both closer to death hook, and already wounded (excepting in some cases the possibility of borrowed time. That’s another issue but suffice it to say it’s not enough to fix this one at hand).
Conclusion: my point in all of this is to say that there is an issue with hook camping, but more fundamentally with how hooks function in the game. This is why countering hook camping some of the ways I’ve seen on these forums is insufficient. They only fix one or maybe two of the issues of hooks.
Solutions: I don’t have any easy ideas. It seems like this demands something as large scale as the endgame collapse changes.
Now, this isn’t the main point of this post, but I’d be remiss to omit the ideas I HAVE had.
Introduce a new objective/unhooking method for survivors. Something like a king of the hill somewhere on the map where if the survivor can stay immersed in it, i.e. not in chase, it both halts the hook timer for his ally (allies?) and upon being hidden in the area for thirty seconds, frees the hooked ally (or allies) with some kind of impunity. Either a teleportation/release from the entity, maybe into a closet or some cool #########, or just with a simple borrowed time effect. I know this reads like an overly enthusiastic fan-fiction but I think some fix of this caliber would be great for the game.
What do you guys think?
Comments
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Gen rush is also a point.
The fact you are rewarded for staying at hooks is the biggest though.
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genrush exist cuz theres no objectives than gens even tho that the thing if you can you get genrush but also you dont even improve skill xd
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Wait a second.
Is "checking", "swinging by" and "camping" all the same thing now? Is it camping if you see, or have reason to believe, a survivor is running to hook so you head over to it?
wtf isn't counted as camping hook at this point?
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You could use the entity visual effects to justify weird stuff that helps out unhooked survivors.like when you unhook a survivor they get teleported somewhere randomly on the map away from the killer or something like that.
Its a shame the unhooked pays such a huge price for a bad unhook and not the "rescuer." Unless the unhooker runs into the killer to give them a hit, the killer has no reason to bother with them and the only reason they would is to be nice.
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Goddamn, Angela, you're camping if you do anything that doesn't allow for a risk-free unhook.
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F**k you're right.
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Hook camping is a result of people being bad at the game; therefore, they resort to cheap tactics in order to get a kill.
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ok so a 4 man urban team that's gen rushing because they can just hide and I finely get one and want to lure them out is on me as camping when in reality the games boring because they are just trying to depip everyone so to peeling the game il do minor camp patrolling so to catch them off guard and get a few points
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Agree with OP.
I notice that a lot, like at least 30% of the games, which is far too many.
A simple solution to this would be to have slower entity progression the closer the killer to the hook is. Like, entity wants the killer to go hunt, not wait around.
Often killers combine tunneling with hex ruin, which almost always guarantees a win in an average (so in majority of lobbies) lobby, wherein players don't use mics with each other to co-ordinate efforts in order to win, which is how survivors are supposed to play like.
DBD devs should just make the stats open (killers vs survivors stats), so that everyone can see how unfair this game is for the majority of players who plays on the survivor side.
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In all seriousness, survivors say they want "a chance", but what they really want is certainty. They had "a chance" to not be found. They had "a chance" not to be hit. They had "a chance" not to be hit a second time. They had "a chance" to wiggle free. They had "a chance" to be unhooked. However, because those things didn't happen, they don't think they had "a chance".
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That's why we have "second chance" perks so Survivors have "a chance".
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Hook camping is a result of people being bad at the game; therefore, they resort to cheap tactics in order to get a WGLF stack.
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What I mean to say isn’t that this is all hook camping, nor is it to shame killers who do these hook patrols. I do them myself even. My point is that it’s very easy and makes sense for any killer playing to win to play in these ways which make the game unfun for everyone, especially the sap on the hook.
There’s nothing WRONG with having an inkling that they’re headed for hook, but what should the punishment for that read be? What should the alternatives be?
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I understand what you’re saying. In COD your chance to win runs out the second you get headshot. But in this game it’s a bit tougher to nail down where chance should end. I don’t think it ought to be the second you hit the hook.
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You still have a chance to be unhooked. It happens sometimes (the very definition of "chance" implies that it's not something that happens all the time).
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Again, I hear you, but this isn’t the chance I’m talking about when I say the hooked survivor should “have a chance.” Just the same as we could say flipping a coin to get unhooked could be considered “chance,” but we probably wouldn’t agree it would make for a fun game. The kind of chance I mean isn’t that “it’s within the realm of possibility,” but more of “even against defensive playing killers, good survivors should have reasonably feasible ways to rescue against good killers.” I don’t believe that what they have right now is that
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Except they do. Personally, I think it's absurd that in an asymmetrical game, a small number of the supposedly weak role can overwhelm the supposed power role, but that's just me.
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This is something that I’ve thought about but worried that first, it would make bbq even more powerful and pretty much a must-take, and second, it makes maps like the game very odd to play as the killer. I don’t think the killer should have to make constant conscious efforts to distance himself from the hooked survivors. Although I don’t see anything wrong with instituting a ~20 meter range between killer and hooked survivor which prevents hook time from elapsing - in addition to whatever other changes
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@BillyIII Yeah, sorry. It doesn't work both ways.
@redsopine01 If you're having trouble finding survivors, there are many perks that aid you in that aspect. Stridor, BBQ, Whispers, Bitter Murmur to name a few. All I can say is this:
Git gud
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> Yeah, sorry. It doesn't work both ways.
It does lol. As long as I get rewarded with free 4ks for standing at the hook, I will keep doing it.
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@BillyIII How does it work both ways?
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> Hook camping is a result of people being bad at the game; therefore, they resort to cheap tactics in order to get a WGLF stack.
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If you stay within 32m of a hooked survivor, you lose 10% points for that hook, if within 12m, you lose 20%, if within 6m, you lose 30%...? Tunneling? If you chase and down a survivor just off hookand were within 40m of the unhooked survivor, connecting in a chase with them within 8 seconds, and the saviour was in your FOV, upon their death hook, you lose 30% of all your points earned from that survivor if there are 3 or more survivors left...
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@BillyIII That sentence literally makes zero sense. Are you saying unhooking a survivor is a cheap way to get WGLF stacks? Because that is the main way to earn stacks.
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I've had survivors tell me that I'm both tunneling and camping for following a survivor back to the hook, just because I saw them running while I was patrolling. Tunneling is especially funny, since I do my best to take down the person unhooking just to be more fair about it. I've also been accused of camping for walking directly away from the hook to do a full round of gens. So yeah, I don't think there's anything that's counted as "fair" unless you just head to the furthest corner and sit yourself in time-out until they're unhooked.
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Camping is evil and needs to be removed cuz I got killed by a viable strategy and if the killer does not go too the otherside of the map after hooking me I will call them camper cuz I am entitled to win thread number 1 million and something...
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Really dude I was on a bout a beeping urban stealth metta team that did nothing the whole game but urban the entire map heck the only reason I got 2k was because I straight up face camped the first 2 I got so I could catch them
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So I’m seeing a lot of people saying some variation of “the only reason anyone wants these changes is as a handout to otherwise ######### survivor players so they can win easier.” To which of course I respond with “of course not.”
Any changes like those I’ve described, even a simple halting hook time when the killer is close by out of chase, will lead to the killer being weaker. But that doesn’t mean it’s not good for the game - it just needs to be taken in concert with another fix in killer’s favor, whether that means nerfing S tier survivor perks, the end game collapse (which if you’ll take note is entirely killer sided excepting the fact a survivor can get hatch with 4+ gens left), even slower repair speed if necessary. Endless other options are available as well. The point to characterizing this issue and trying to remedy it isn’t to make survivors stronger - it’s to remove a part of the game that is distinctly unfun for both parties involved: ensuring, when so desired or thought even temporarily advantageous, that the hooked survivor cannot escape.
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@fireplace123ttv There is a one problem, if you buff a killer because of this nerf you will also make many other things so much powerful, while also some things useless, like a BT.
The fact is: balancing this out is a far more complicated task than you think.
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Check out the solution I just posted. My 75 year old father actually came up with it and I think its pretty good and would love some feed back
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/59421/absolute-and-simple-camping-fix#latest
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@LastShoe I agree it’s a complicated task, but I’d be surprised if borrowed time went from S tier to F. Same with we’ll make it, decisive, and deliverance. There’s a reason these are found in the vast majority of lobbies - because when there’s only one way to unhook, they become necessary. Becoming unnecessary shouldn't be considered a bad thing
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Camping someone on a team of people who are gen-rushing is the exact opposite of how to approach that situation. The best way to deal with the scenario that you're describing is to use BBQ&Chili.
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Decisive and deliverance, we will make it... all of those perks wont be influenced by this change and whats more, BT isn't a S tier, its a good perk but too often it wont change a game... you would be suprised how often BT is a waste of perk slot.
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