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Second Mistake from Behavior, The Legion Rework
When Behavior launched Freddy, there were many complaints that it was broken ... and you know how is the community of "weeping" people because behaviour acted too quickly applying a HOTFIX on Freedy and I think it was pretty bad, days later .. They put another patch with other nerfs that left literary freed unplayable ... at least for me, I do not know about you.
Now, Behavior launched a couple of patches a killer called LEGION, I think a pretty difficult power to "balance" and after days ... people acted like they acted with freedy, dc, rague quits, etc ... Sincerely the Legion power was pretty ... broken? and abusable, which I do not agree with that power and needs some adjustment ... but the second major failure of behaviour has been ... act quickly on legion and perform a REWORK without notice, without knowing the community, to me, sincerely the devs have acted too fast and have not known how to "balance their power" now ... LEGION is useless, many of you will think it is playable and fun, but it is not ... go with power only to obtain a free hit and then do a chase to M1, it's not fun. For me, they have made another mistake, as it was with Freedy.
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they did announce a rework...... they waited 5 months if this is to fast then you got some issues. it was needed due to people abusing the exploits of him.
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Legion is actually in a pretty solid place right now dude. Just takes more skill to use well.
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With 2.6k hours, i need more skill? Legion does not need skill now, it's hitting free hits and doing a chase, eating a pallet and knocking one down. That is all.
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He isn’t useless right now. I can cross the map a lot easier now.
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They are garbage now, no speed, no thrill on playing him, only masochists will enjoy getting stunned by a simple 360 or dead hard. 28 stab wounds is gone and so are most of their enjoyable mechanics
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1 - They gave -lots- of notice on the re-work
2 - It's been half a year man, half a year of easy-mode face rolling. It's not a 'quick decision'.
3 - My first match as Legion post re-work:
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I have 2.6k hours in the game and should have at least 4k but it bores me lately. Yesterday I dedicated about 2 hours to legion alone, I played 8 games, of those games .... only escaped 1, we are not talking about your ability to kill in games, and with the people you face, because the people you face it is irrelevant, the question is its power and its usefulness ... Its power does not give me utility for the game.
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Legion was built around the idea of people with 100 hours can hit for free no matter your skill level. That was obviously unfair and lacking of logic.
Well, now we have a rework that we could understand like a good answer to legion problem, or in a good direction at least, but I think devs made half of needed work to make legion a good and interesting killer. Indeed, now is a M1 killer, because is almost impossible to chain 2 o more hits on frenzy, unless survs are stupids. A less imaginative work from devs...
As I said once, push his power up, promote chain hits, for example, increase feral frenzy speed and duration with each hit, or chain hits removes a third of bar for each surv hitted in a chain (thus, fourth surv is one shot down...)
Im not saying legion now is a bad killer, but is not interesting at all.
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I've been staying away from all of these anti-Legion update threads, but since you recognized his pre-2.7.0 power was broken/abusable. Lets talk.
Firstly I want to say that I like the Legion changes. I think they were needed and have put Legion in a much better place. I have been having fun playing him and playing against him now. He is a solid mid-tier killer.
So you said his power is not fun for you now. Was his power fun for you before? If so, why was it fun? I ask because his power before essentially forced you to tunnel a single person, and they had little to no chance to avoid going down. This was the strategy that the playerbase adapted because the vision for the killer did not match the tools that were provided.
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People with knowledge and hours will understand me, I am not trying to say ... I want the old legion, no .. because it is abusive and too easy to play. I want a balance of this new legion and that it is fun and that it is USEFUL.
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Rank?
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Personally, as someone you didn't ask, here's what I think is fun about old legion without the exploits:
- The focus on forcing survivors to separate or be punished
- The feeling of eliminating a loop
- The feeling of stabbing multiple times consecutively (which was fleeting though, since you can't usually find multiple survivors together after the first time)
With those points in mind, here's why I think Legion was forced to tunnel as much/long
- mending exploit rewarded not leaving someone alone with a deep wound
- it was incredibly hard to get that second hit
- when you didn't want to frenzy stab someone, you were extremely loopable, forcing many to just frenzy stab multiple times in a row
- mending in general made little difference if you weren't still applying pressure to a survivor
With those in mind, I think that what they should have done to old legion is the terror radius mending fix, and then they should have fixed the looping issue; can't tunnel as long if you can down them, and that looping issue was why they went for the 5 stab down instead of feral stab and normal chase; it was boring for survivors because it had no counterplay, and it was boring to killers because it's a strategy that doesn't really feel rewarding.
This might push legion too powerful, but I think a good starting point would have been, again to remove the exploits, but then to make Legion move faster while cooling down from a frenzy. Would decrease the space between the legion and the survivor, giving them less time to find the next pallet/window, and would mean that saving pallets for after the legion ends their frenzy is even more valuable and overt.
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I have plenty of knowledge of the game. I am not here to swing the playtime e-peen around.
I never said you wanted the old legion. I re-iterated something you said in your post, and because you are raising this complaint now after the patch, asked if the pre-patch legion was fun for you and why. If it was not fun, and as you state now "I want a balance of this new legion and that it is fun..." then what would be your suggestion to make the Legion fun for you?
If you are not interested in actually discussing and merely created this thread to state your playtime and that you are unhappy.... good day sir.
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legion is in a much better place now. my condolences for your tunneling machine. the community abused him and now he is fixed. one of my favorite killers now.
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I agree that pre-patch Legion was more or less "forced" to tunnel someone till they were downed. Like I said in my post: the vision for the killer did not align with the tools provided, and players did what they had to to make the killer work.
Current Legion still forces the survivors to separate because it can still stab multiple survivors during one Feral Frenzy to spread the damage/pressure (original vision), and eliminates the first loop/hit of a chase by giving you an easy free hit. Then with the 115% move speed can now easily get the 2nd hit without getting looped forever.
So with that said I am not seeing (from the points you outlined) why Legion is no longer fun for you. It seems like it meets all your criteria, but the only thing it can no longer do is Feral Frenzy tunnel a survivor until they are down.
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Freddy was broken when it was realised when you were down the first thing that they did a big mistake its waking up and then heal the survivor that was downed that was broken on freddy
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@Vlieger Honestly, the old legion was abusive. In that, we agree both. This legion, it's boring ... why? Because it simply uses the power to hurt to get a free-hit and to make pursuit to the M1 ... for me it would be fun if they put some new mechanics to its power since it is ... "useless" at the moment, like for example ... the multiple chains give a reward .. as it can be ... "oneshot" if it chains a chain of 4. Of course ... making a chain of 2 or 3 is difficult (depends of the position of the survivors), he should has a speed buff if it reaches 2 or 3 chains successfully, to be more balanced would be 3. What do you think?
EDIT
or really ... give a use to the deep wound since they have left it unusable and no one will fall ... therefore I suggest that once they have been hit by feral frenzy and have been in "deep wound" it will be applied a mark, at 3 marks, would be in a broken state for X seconds.
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@SlinkyJinky Why'd you cut the pic like that? Why not just show the whole tally screen?
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Go use them at rank 1. Have fun buddy.
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Legion is still totally geared up for toxic tunneling.
Monitor & Abuse + FF in for the first hit then use fast vaults to casually keep up with your target while you wait for FF to wear off (yes, Vaults are slower than before but still faster than ANY other Killer) keep line of sight, catch up M1 to down.
What can be easier and less stressful than that.
Pallets mean nothing to you
Windows mean nothing to you
It doesn't matter that FF won't down them (unless their really stupid) that's not what FF is for. It's to keep pressure and keep Survivors off gens but it's main utility is to totally destroy loops.
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I don't agree that the power is "useless" since a free first hit and knowledge of anyone else in a 32m radius around you is not "useless" but I would say that Deep Wound is very underwhelming. I do think it was a big mistake for them to use the Deep Wound mechanic rather than coming up with a new mechanic like they did for Plague.
I like your idea about giving a bonus for additional chain hits. With the way Deep Wound is currently, it doesn't feel very rewarding to spread the damage around. It does create pressure and wastes some of the survivors time, but not really enough to feel worth it.
So overall I can see where you are coming from and why you think it's boring. I'm not in the same boat thinking he is boring, but I do think his power is underwhelming compared to other killers. Balance wise Legion is not in a bad spot right now, but his gameplay could definitely be improved/changed to feel more rewarding.
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Legion was a M1 killer anyways.. what changed?....
Exactly!
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Last time I checked, 4k means jackshit if a killer is balanced or not.
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The mistake was creating the Legion in the first place, back in November last year.
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i stoped reading at "i dont agree with legions power being abusable". #########?
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Maybe you should continue to read and improve at it, because nowhere in this thread does anyone say that. <3
The direct quote from the OP (which I think you are referencing) is: "the Legion power was pretty ... broken? and abusable, which I do not agree with that power and needs some adjustment"
While the grammar is not amazing (might not be a native English speaker/writer) the overall statement they are making is recognizing the power was broken/abusable and stating they did not agree with its design and that they think it needed adjustment.
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Yeah, getting used to the new legion a little more, it's not bad, but the power feels like nothing, to be honest... Only slightly different than playing a trapper without traps. the old frenzy provided a more frantic playstyle but it doesn't feel like that at all anymore. Sorry for kinda getting sidetracked and losing my point >.<
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i mean I DO NOT AGREE THAT ABUSABLE POWER
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Yep that is kind of my whole point, the power is not useless since you get an easy hit and lots of knowledge of people near you. The power does now force you to play the way they envisioned Legion working, but playing that way does not feel rewarding enough because of how little impact Deep Wound has on someone. It just feels bad spending so much time spreading hits around for such little reward. This was also the original problem with him which is why people started FF tunneling.
So FF tunneling is gone. His speed is now 115% so he is a viable M1 killer, but we are still left with an underwhelming power that gets you a free first hit and some tracking knowledge but not much else.
At least his current build is not a detriment on the community, but like many other killers I think now that he is "balanced" and must be played how BHVR designed him to play, he is going to fall into the "needs a rework" category where so many others killer have gone to die.
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Yep, 2.6k hours and you can't win with the new Legion? You probably need more skill!
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