Killer Delaying the Endgame Collapse
I like the new collapse for ending the game but I've got an edge case problem.
If it's not entirely clear, the video contains:
- Survivors under performed, resulting in 3/4 being sacrificed before any gen was completed
- Hatch was found by killer first
- Killer prevents jumping in by standing on it
- Jump in animation is cancelled, twice, presumably by the hatch closing animation
- Killer closes hatch
- Killer kills last survivor, ending the game
Not displayed is time spent between third survivor sacrificed and finding the hatch. I waited at the gate, hoping the killer would close the hatch, then I looked around the entire map before the above happened. So I presume, without much evidence, the killer decided to sit on the hatch for a while before I found them.
I understand it's not holding the game hostage as I could do generators.
My concern is the killer chose sitting in one part of the map over confronting me, the survivor, and had no incentive or disincentive for this, as I couldn't use the hatch and the gates were 5 generators away.
This was boring to play and at worst, could result in the old hatch standoff in a slightly different way: the killer doesn't close the hatch, awaiting a generator to be done for a perk aura read or the gates to be powered, and the survivor doesn't approach the hatch, or do a generator, remaining hidden. The collapse doesn't start until one player is bored enough to close the hatch or do the gens.
My solution is to let the survivor jump in the hatch if it's open, even if the killer is standing on it, or by stopping the killer from standing on it. The killer should prefer to close it, and if not, the survivor can jump into it, both pushing the game to a close. I'm not interested in allowing the survivor to jump in during the close animation as that means the game is progressing.
I just don't want to continue playing a match I've lost because the killer doesn't want to kill me now instead of later. Disconnecting to get into a match with a killer of my skill level is faster than waiting for the better killer to decide to kill me in the match recorded above.
Comments
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before this change you wouldn't have even had the hatch, stop QQing
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Urban Evasion + Left Behind + Poised + Perk of choice. When you're last man standing, if the killer is hatch humping and not closing it, 99% gens, then figure out the shortest path between gens that leads away from the killer, and run from gen to gen, popping it, then head to the outside edge of the map on your way to the next gen, repeat.
Poised prevents scratch marks for 10 seconds after popping a gen. Assuming you can stay out of line of sight of the killer, you can run for 10 seconds for every gen you pop this way, and have Urban as backup. Worst case scenario, you get an EASY 8k objective points, plus however much bold points you get should the killer find you.
The amount of playstyles available to you with perks is huge, you have no excuse. If you want to enjoy the game more, build your perk loadout around countering things you hate the most, and just get better at looping to break dependency on crutch perks like MoM and SC.
I'm a Survivor main and I'm ######### tired of weak ass crybaby survivors who ragequit the first time they're caught. Stop bitching and get better.
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"then figure out the shortest path between gens that leads away from the killer, and run from gen to gen, popping it"
only someone who's ignorant of game process in higher ranks would say that, once a killer, such as nurse figures out where you are, it's game over for you. There's no "running around popping gens", the hatch was the only viable exit, but now that's gone.
I'm yet to see a lone survivor to escape with closed hatch, unless killer allows it.
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I had a game against the Nurse.
I've found the hatch when my friend was on the hook. I started to sit on him. When my teammate was sacrificed, the Nurse teleported right in front of me. The hatch was not opened because of sacrifice animation. Then she hit me and I became injured. The hatch opened. I clicked M1 to jump, but the Nurse prevented the jump animation by closing the hatch.
Basically even without grab ability, the killer can prevent the survivor from jumping through the hatch.
Post edited by Dr_Smith_ on3 -
So you want the game to end slower when the survivors have lost totally because the killer doesn't want to end it?
You're suggesting I change my entire perk loadout to combat this rare occurrence, the fourth perk would need to be an aura read prevention for Bitter Murmur. This would make every survivor hate me for bringing nothing to the table, those "EASY 8k objective points" would translate to short chases and less than 8k total bloodpoints in most games. You're also suggesting I counter what I hate, so I hate other things than this 1 game in 50, so I don't run your suggested four perks? You're saying I have no excuse yet you give no excuse for offering a perk loadout that does not let me, as you said, enjoy the game, and only affects this specific instance.
I don't know why you're talking about dependencies on MoM & SC, do you see me running those in the video? Did you watch the video?
I also don't know where these crybabies who ragequit the first time they're caught. Could you point out where that happened in the video?
kabare makes a good point about being found very quickly.
Could you tell me why you're answering a complaint about "Killer beat the pants off me, they shouldn't be allowed to do that!" when my complaint is "Killer beat the pants off me, but won't hunt me down or close the hatch, delaying the inevitable by 7 boring minutes."
Thanks for the insult and thanks for not reading the post. Your anecdotal experience is opening a gate, my video above displays me needing to hold M1 at generators for 7 minutes and then travel time between, only to lose because clearly the killer has outmatched everyone already, but doesn't want to beat me because they don't want to until later. I hope you enjoy losing games, then continuing to play them because the other player told you you can't leave until they say so, because I don't.
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Let me explain why this isn't "holding the game hostage"
- you can win the game by attempting to complete generators.
- The killer can't leave the hatch without risking that you jump into the hatch (you can't be grabbed from hopping into the hatch)
- If the killer leaves hatch then you can win the game by jumping into the hatch.
- if the killer downs you without closing the hatch then you can crawl into the hatch
- if the killer closes the hatch then you have exactly 3 minutes to get one of the 2 gates open and escape.
all of these options result in the game ending.
The only option the killer has to prevent you from winning is to wait until you show up at the hatch or give your position away. At which point the killer can then close the hatch and proceed to search for you. This was a nurse so her ability to track an uninjured player is pretty limited.
Holding the game hostage means that no one can win and no one can lose. An example would be if a survivor were to glitch out of a wall and walk around until the killer disconnects or the killer were to do some sort of glitch that permanently prevents players from completing generators/opening the door/opening the hatch. typically speaking only survivors can hold the game hostage because 99.9% of all killer actions cause the game to end eventually.
This wasn't an example of a player cheating or preventing gameplay. This was a killer using the new mechanic to their advantage as it was intended. If the killer gets to the hatch first then the survivors don't get to use it. If the survivor makes it there first then they win. The killer can decide when to close the hatch. There's no rule saying the killer has to close the hatch or move around the map. This was just an example of a survivor that hadn't gotten used to the new mechanic and a nurse that had.
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Cough cough.
This is in the OP, please read it, I put effort into it: "I understand it's not holding the game hostage as I could do generators."
You didn't even read the title of this thread: "Delaying" not "Stopping".
I don't know why you're insinuating cheating occurring. I never mentioned cheating. I don't know what you're talking about with rules either.
Please post again when you read the OP rather than pretending you read it.
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- The killer can't leave the hatch without risking that you jump into the hatch (you can't be grabbed from hopping into the hatch)
You cant be grabbed but he can close it during the 'jumping' animation. I have said it before, just give the KILLER an animation, like a 3s thing to close the hatch.
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All I read is:
"End game is more mind gamey now. I hate it."
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Why should you be entitled to an escape in that scenario? You guys underperformed and paid the price for it.
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Why should the killer be entitled to a 4k? The last survivor didn't underperform. That's why they're the LAST survivor. They deserve a better chance since the odds are now highly stacked against them.
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They could also be the last survivor due to sheer luck.
Killer finds the last two survivors together. Chases and kills one of them. The other one becomes the last survivor as the result of a coin flip.
The only constant in a 1v1 is that three survivors died as a result of the killer's actions. The killer did their job.
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Care to explain why rather than make an empty response?
I never asked to escape. I asked to be able to force the killer's hand, not let them make me do gens, solo, for 7 boring minutes, whilst they don't intervene because they don't want to kill me right now but instead later.
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That brings up some interesting points to mind. Killers are now ‘camping’ hatches with one survivor left and absolutely no hope of success. Sounds like a game I wouldn’t want to play…and that worries me, this is my second most favorite game after all…
Last January the rates of escape for survivors were already at an average of 30%, based off a post I read on steam. Last year there was a lot of complaining because there were too many killers and not enough survivors, resulting in longer wait periods for killers in lobby.
Each new killer they put out is usually balanced with a weakness or new survival perks that will help defend against them. But there’s no counter to the killer’s ability to close the hatch on survivors, or to the countdown timer, making the change completely unbalanced in the killer’s favor.
It’s not complaining or even an exaggeration to point out that the number of survivors who play the game is likely to drop if the balance isn’t fixed, no one wants to play a game which is near impossible to win. It feels like the scales are tipped against them. It’s like playing poker with a person who can count cards. You only do it if they’re good company, and never for money. If the balance isn’t restored, then the drop in the number of survivors playing will aggravate some of the very problems they’ve been trying to solve, resulting in even longer wait times for killers in lobby.
I won’t lie…After seeing this change in action, it’s already gone through my head a few times that I should switch games, and if you know me, that’s a rare occurrence…over 2000 hours clocked on DBD and I’m still awful at it. 😊 But I love the game, that’s why I don’t want to see it destroyed.
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EGC wouldn't even exist if not for the fact that survivors spent over two years doing some of the most heinous time wasting. 60+ minute overrun in games because people refuse to leave , 45 min hatch standoffs because the hatch mechanic was half baked to begin with. Now you have to simply do what was expected of the players and get the game over with in a timely manner. I'm not going to feel too bad that survivors are getting to waste 4mins for however long it takes people to get bored of the entity animation. The game is extremely easy to win and survival rates according the stats provided by devs is currently 41% for solo survivors and 49% for 4man swf. I don't really care much for the stats, but since they are here and you've mentioned survival rate. The game is far from impossible to win, but it now has gotten tougher because people can't depend on an escape method that can't really be challenged.
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You're right, it's not impossible to win. but the game isn’t always over just because the gates are open, or in this case because the hatch is closed. Sometimes you need to save a friend on a hook, or be saved by them...Twice now I have died from the Endgame event because I went back to save my teammates. I saved one, and another got put on a hook so I went back to save them too, but due to the ‘end game’ event, we died on our way back to the gate from the bottom level of the Gideon Meat Plant, where they'd been hooked. If the killer is still putting people on hooks, then they are still playing the game, and to disallow their rescue, through an arbitrary timer is to give the killer the final word, making it no game at all, but a rigged deck. It would make more sense if the killer was no longer allowed to hook survivors after closing the hatch. That might balance it out. But saving a hooked survivor after the gates opened shouldn't be punished by instant death, not unless it's by the killer themselves. If they aren't good enough to catch you, they don't deserve to. Survivors shouldn’t be punished for continuing to play with a killer who's hooked someone and clearly wasn’t done with the game yet. You could say that I have a choice to make, let my teammate die on the hook and save myself, or go back for them even though I know the clock will kill me. I'd rather play with the person who'd take a chance to try and save me, and I'd rather be that kind of person too. So the real question is, how long will people like that keep playing for, if their reward for having a little honor is death?
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The game can't last forever just because you keep making saves for people who keep getting caught out. You have to make choices. Hard choices with big consequences. You're asking to be given more chances when you've had multiple chances to leave. Some times you gotta let teammates die. That's me telling you that from a survivor standpoint. You can not keep saving people. You're not all going to live and yes the game is weighted closer to killer with egc. If you want to be heroic to the very end that is fine, but the game doesn't have to reward you for that. People have played the game long before this feature existed and will long after this feature becomes pointless. You've come to the wrong game if you have a need to be a hero. It's survival horror, you just have to survive. Just you. If others survive, that's great and if you helped even better, but you need to ensure your own survival most of all. This killer isn't going to stop doing what their supposed to do which is being the horror part.
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The game can't last forever, we only get the 2 hooks, after that we're gone. So that's not forever. Another person I play survivor with was saying, "All the killers have to do is catch and hook us. This End Game is just a reward for killers who are bad at hooking people. If we die by it, the killer shouldn't get the points. Before it would be a close game if they had hooked everyone once or twice and there were the last hooks they needed, but a killer doesn't have to be good to get points anymore, they can play through the whole game, never hook anyone, and then still manage to get all four people killed with the End Game event, just by finding the hatch, closing it, and camping gates. It's just a way to reward killers with no skills." -and this resonated a lot with what I've seen. In a lot of the lobbies I've seen people calling survivors who don't like the change 'entitled' but it just seems hypocritical to me. What's more 'entitled' than getting free points at the end of the game for not catching people? Honestly do we need more killers or survivors in this game? What's the main reasons killers have such long wait times? It's the 4 to 1 ratio of people needed in lobby. Lack of survivors is a problem, and will be a bigger one if they don't figure out how to re-balance the game. Killers at this point have the ability to see us almost all the time. They have the invisibility, and one hit KO, and all that is pretty okay because they always find a way to counter balance it. Yes the Dr. can drive you crazy, but not if you're in a locker. Sure Freddy can slow down your movements, but it takes him seven seconds to put you in a dream state. Why do most people play survivor? I started playing it for the adrenaline rush, I was a huge coward at first, but eventually I found out that the real fun is in saving your teammates and learning the skills to run away and survive in the process. Something I'm awful at, but love so much I practice it anyway. This takes away from that. It makes the game less fun. Today I got home and thought 'I want to go play Dead by Daylight.' and that thought was quickly followed by 'But they changed it, so I can't anymore.' This change is so large that it makes it feel like a completely different game. I'll keep playing in hopes that they find a way to re-balance it, and make it work. But I was concerned enough about the situation to post my opinion on the internet. ^.^ I really hope they find a way to make it work or get rid of it completely. Dead by Daylight-the original- will be missed...it almost took the place of L4D as my favorite game...and that is something special.
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You're right, the game can't last forever, we only get two hooks. Going back to save a person is difficult enough at the end. It's already a hard choice, that's why you get extra points for it. I'm not asking them to 'give more chances' I'm suggesting they don't take away the few chances we already had. The other part of this that is one sided is the points from the entity kills go to the killer, but they didn't earn those. In a lot of the forums I've seen killers call survivors 'entitled' for not liking the end game for logical reasons, but then they turn around and take points they didn't earn, a bit hypocritical. People have played for a long time through a lot of changes, the thing is each change they made was balanced in some way, there's always a counter to any alterations they make, but there isn't for this. It's completely one sided. The game is a 4 to 1 ratio to begin with. Meaning you want four times as many survivors as killers or the killers wait times in lobby are going to be LONG. It's one of the biggest complaints out of killers. This doesn't incentivice people to play as survivor, it does just the opposite. I'm betting we see a drop in survivors playing, and I'm betting killers get longer wait times as a result. Sadly I feel this add on might be the beginning of the end for my second favorite game. :'( Oh, that might seem a bit dramatic so I should explain. It's the 70/30 rule of psychology, basically it means people who lose at a game more than 30% of the time will no longer want to play it. Oh, but if they win too much they'll stop wanting to play also...It's a delicate balance. :)
Post edited by ZombieGirlORV on0 -
He's not asking for an escape...
It's like he got pulled over by a cop for speeding. He's not debating the ticket, but the cop is just busy watching YouTube videos on the laptop in his squad car instead of actually writing up the ticket.
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