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FREDDY REWORK - WHAT IF YOU DIDN'T KNOW YOU WERE ASLEEP?
I know you guys don't want to hear my ideas on Freddy Rework. But, I spent all night on this, because I feel passionate about this subject for some reason. Having grown up on Freddy movies.
Anyway, here's what I typed up for the Freddy Rework:
(thoughts welcome)
We start with 4 survivors and of course Freddy.
They go on about their business.
FREDDY’S TERROR RADIUS:
You can still spot him by seeing grass move, pallets break or him carrying a survivor. Other than that, his TERROR RADIUS is non-existent. You do not here him coming. If you’re a observant survivor you might notice a disturbance in the ground around you (because of grass movement and such), but that’s about it.
FREDDY TRANCE:
The way Freddy puts you into a dream state is by tapping you on the shoulder. That’s it.You do not hear him, you do not feel or see this happen.
Freddy is invisible.
Freddy has no terror radius. No LALALA’s.
It no longer takes several seconds to fall into dream state, it is instant.
The transition from normal world to dream state is instantaneous.
The transition is also seamless.
You will not know you’re in a dream (that is the entire point — and charm).
However, you will have some clues that you are in a dream state.
THE DREAM STATE:
When you’re in dream state, nothing changes. Everything looks exactly the same. No music plays, no terror radius, no LALALALA’s…. Everything is EXACTLY the same.
Freddy can at that point attack you at anytime — while invisible — in dream state. However, he can choose to go after other survivors instead, as well — without you knowing that he put you to sleep, because he’s still invisible and has no terror radius.
And you still don’t know you’re in Dream State (aka the nightmare).
But, there will be clues that you’re asleep.
NIGHTMARE CLUES:
Totems won’t cleanse. When you go to cleanse a totem you go through the entire routine and when the progress bar is complete, nothing happens. The totem does not break (no matter if it’s DULL or HEX TOTEM).
When you try to sabotage a hook, nothing happens. When the progress bar reaches the end, the hook does not fall. It stays intact.
Palletes don’t come down. When you go to pull a pallet, nothing happens, it stays where it’s at.
This idea is interesting, because it would lead to a lot of survivors constantly wasting pallets to check if they’re asleep, when in fact they’re fully awake (AND JUST WASTED A PALLET!)
Searching a trunk will go as normal, however, when you reach the end of the progress bar, the trunk will shut close. You will not be able to retrieve the item inside. Not unless you are awake.
So, those are the Dream Clues.
You can still pop gens, you can still unhook survivors.
The only way you can know for sure that you’re asleep is…
If you try to search a trunk, clean a totem, sabotage a hook or drop a pallet and you are unsuccessful at it, then you’re definitely asleep.
To wake-up you need to find another survivor to wake you, however, the other survivor has to be awake too or else, they will be unable to wake you.
NIGHTMARE CONFIRMATION:
Once you get a clue that you’re in a dream (aka nightmare)…The LALALALA song plays and you can have the white background (to confirm you are asleep) as well. This is confirmation that you are indeed asleep. The LALALA song has nothing to do with Freddy’s terror radius.
It is just a song that confirms that you are indeed asleep.
So, when you try to cleanse a totem and it doesn’t break… LALALALLAA starts
When you try to sabotage and it hook doesn’t fall… LALALALLAA
Drop a pallet and it doesn’t fall… LALALALA
Try to retrieve an item from a trunk…. LALALALA
Once you get NIGHTMARE CONFIRMATION, you will always see Freddy when he’s around (he’s no longer invisible). He still has no terror radius.
However, every time you try and do any of the tasks above unsuccessfully, you will get the LALALALA song (aka CONFIRMATION YOU’RE IN A NIGHTMARE).
WAKING UP FROM NIGHTMARE:
Only another survivor (that is awake) can wake you up. You can’t wake yourself up (not through failed skill checks of SELFCARE or GENERATORS). You are forced to run around looking for survivors to wake you up.
The other SURVIVORS don’t know you’re asleep!! They may not even know that this is a game with FREDDY in it!!!!
It is not readily apparent that you are asleep to them at all either. You can point at them, point at yourself, squat… whatever… you will still look normal (fully awake) to them.
They’ll either think you’re yelling at them, pointing to another object or person, telling them where to go somewhere, alerting them of the killer nearby, laughing at them, etc. You have to pester them until they realize that you are trying to tell them that you might be asleep. Then they can try to wake you up at that point.
If they can’t wake you up (or the wake-up animation doesn’t start)— it means you’re not asleep.
HOWEVER, if they can’t wake you up (or the wakeup animation doesn’t start), it could also mean that they are asleep too!!!!!!
They can either carry on as if they’re awake or try to find clues that they’re asleep (or find another survivor and try again to get woken up).
IF ALL SURVIVORS ARE ASLEEP:
If all survivors are asleep — nobody can wake anybody up!
Until someone is hung and then freed and then only they will be able to wake people up (unless Freddy puts them to sleep again).
Also, when a survivor gets hooked, thats another way to wake up. So, if all survivors are asleep, one of them has to get hooked to wake up. Even if they have to surrender to Freddy on purpose… just so they can wake up, be rescued and try and wake some more survivors.
However, it is possible that they can all be asleep and not realize it as well.
Since they won’t be able to ‘wake each other up aka start the wake animation’ then they’ll assume they’re awake. Even if they’re not. No way of knowing unless they get a NIGHTMARE CONFIRMATION by attempting one of the tasks mentioned above.
The only way of knowing that you’re asleep is to try to get a confirmation from the clues.
Trying to get confirmation from other survivors to see if you’re awake is unreliable, since they can be asleep too. But, you still have a chance in getting woken up if they’re awake and you’re asleep.
But, for concrete confirmation it is more reliable to try and cleanse a totem, drop a pallet, sabotage a hook or go through a trunk. If you fail at any of those, you will get a confirmation that you’re asleep with a LALALALA song. If that song doesn’t happen and you’re able to successfully clean a totem, drop a pallet, sabotage a hook or pop a gen by yourself, it means that you’re awake.
There is another way of finding out you’re asleep. That’s if Freddy attacks you!
FREDDY ATTACKS:
Before Freddy can attack, he has to put you to sleep. Which is instantaneous. The survivor won’t know he’s asleep. He won’t see Freddy or hear him. Or know when he puts you to sleep.
Then Freddy can...
A) attack. Once he attacks he will become VISIBLE and LALALALA song will play to confirm survivor is in a nightmare. SO, basically, Freddy gets a ‘free hit’ right off the bat.
B) or Freddy can delay the attack and go after someone else and put more survivors to sleep. Freddy can put all survivors to sleep without them knowing. Nobody will be able to wake anyone up either.
Freddy will be invisible entire time, and of course, no terror radius. Only when he attacks a survivor will he be revealed. And only to the survivor he attacked. The others will still not see or hear him (no matter if they’re asleep or awake). Unless they’re attacked (or get a Nightmare confirmation).
When Freddy attacks you and a chase ensues… you can not drop pallets still (as you are in a nightmare). You can not cleanse totems, search trunks or sabotage hooks. Not until you’re woken up by another survivor (who is awake).
If everyone is asleep, you have to wait for a survivor to get hooked, then they’ll need to get unhooked to wake someone up.
OTHER:
If Freddy is running any kind of HEX and the person who is trying to clean the HEX Totem is asleep, then they will not be able to clean it. If everyone is asleep, then, no one will be able to clean it. It will be an additional step in the game to try to get someone hooked, then rescued — then they will have to clean the HEX personally (or wake up another survivor — that can then go and clean HEX).
All these stipulations would make it indeed a NIGHTMARE for the SURVIVORS — even if they don’t realize they’re in it at first.
CONCLUSION:
This will make Freddy the most feared killer out there. It is an extreme buff (IMO) at the moment and may need to be perfected a little more, but these are just some thoughts I had on my version of the FREDDY REWORK.
Comments
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My friend, your post is awfully long, so I I didn't read half of it. Probably moot too: I'm sure Freddy rework is already done, and now they're just testing it.
However, not knowing you're actually sleeping is a very fun proposal (one that has come up earlier in the forums). I hope there will be something like this with new Freddy.
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I just had to get these ideas out of my head. I'm pretty sure I'm very late to the game. And I'm pretty sure alot of these ideas have been brought up already.
I was just trying to hash out the ideas as best that I could.
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It's honesly an unbalanced mess. There is absolutely no counter aside from getting hooked (lol) and Freddy would be absolutely OP.
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Here's the 3 main take aways, if I had to sum it up.
- The survivor can not know that he's in a dream, if he has been put to sleep. But, there will be NIGHTMARE CLUES that he has to look for to test if he's in a dream.
- When he or she finds out they are in a dream state, they have to convince the other survivors to wake them up. By pointing, squatting, running around, etc (as you no longer will have a bent head -- you will look perfectly normal, you will look awake).
- The person you are trying to tell that you are asleep... may be asleep as well. And neither you or they will know it, unless they look for NIGHTMARE CLUES themselves. So, you may be trying to get someone to wake you up, that can't wake you up because they're in the nightmare with you and not know it!!!
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Why would Freddy be invisible when they are in dream world? He's not in the movies. The only time they can see Freddy is when they are sleeping.
All they need to do is get rid of the lullaby when the survivor is awake. They should not be able to hear the lullaby if they are not asleep. Freddy should not have any terror radius for an awake survivor. Since he is basically non-existent in the real world.
Rather the lullaby should play during the dream transition. That way the survivor will have some time to run before Freddy can attack, and Freddy just can't come up on someone fixing a generator and pull them off before they can do anything.
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Freddy would be invisible until he attacks. Pretty sure in the movies, Freddy didn't reveal himself in the dream world until after they knew they were in a dream. He can reveal himself right away as well, but that defeats the purpose of being in a dream world and not knowing it, if you see Freddy right away. Then it will never be a surprise. The idea is to carry on, for several seconds (even minutes) without knowing you've been asleep the entire time. Unless you look for clues.
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Or Freddy attacks you first. Then he reveals himself at that point. But, putting you in a dream never reveals him. Only if he attacks (or you find out by finding a NIGHTMARE CLUE).
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Kind of like 'finding a glitch' in the Matrix.
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The only problem with that is then Freddy would basically get a free hit and that would be too OP unles the first hit doesn't put the survivor in the injured state.
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That would be much too op. you get a first hit and then chase the survivor who cant even drop a pallet? Sure. In the first movie, he showed himself to his victim before it had knowledge being in a dream. i dont know if it was the first victim but yeah, probably even as he attacked she wasnt aware being in a dream.
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I see your point. Making Freddy have to strike 3 times is an option I suppose.
But, yes, it may need some balance.
However, some of these killers have 1 hit downs perks and addons already.
If this 'free hit' makes Freddy a 1 hit down killer (though technically 2 hits), how is it different from Myers or some of the others who actually do have 1 hit down perks.
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Myers need a long time to get his 1 hit down. And it is limited. Billy and Leatherface need to activate their 1 hit power and hit with it. And at least billy cant hit super easily with his chainsaw. You can counter the 1 hit down with pallets or windows.
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Then restore the use of pallet. Hopefully that balances it out.
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alright so i read that entire wall of text, lets go over what is wrong with it
let's be honest there would be no indication freddy was coming at all because the freddy would just not walk through grass, so freddy would just walk around listening for gens being worked on - walk up to that person instantly sleep them - instantly pull them off gen
so freddy would just have permanent instant down with no warning that the survivor needed to run/hide
the no pallet use in the dream would not result in anyone but the absolute worst players dropping pallets to test their state, since dropping the pallet would tell freddy were you were and he could walk up to and instantly sleep you
in conclusion zero counter play and most survivors would just leave game as soon as they were capable of seeing him
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Well, we would restore the use of pallets.
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except you would never get to a pallet since he would just pull you off of gens
also when would these nightmare clues ever come into play because if you are asleep why didn't he just pull you off a gen or down you in less than 30 seconds
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What about the dream transition would have an duration of 30 secs but with not any indication of it? And then every point the op have mentioned except not able to use pallets? And Freddy shouldnt be invisible if a survivor is in dream state, but still have no terror radius, no red glow and no lullaby till the survivor would confirm the dream state. Even if they see Freddy it would not count as confirmation
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this is better (30 seconds is probably too long) but why would seeing freddy not confirm the dream status, sure him being across the map but somehow still in LOS probably shouldn't confirm for this, but if he turns a corner into me and i see him - i should be well aware i need to not be asleep anymore, it could work like premonition but also require nothing to be in between you and him
Post edited by holywhitetrash on0 -
How would Freddy be apparent and still not be in Dream State? Like the Doctor?
Just appears and vanishes. I think that's already a thing.
I believe that people should have no indication they're in a dream, if they see Freddy immediately, then they know they're in a dream. THey have to force Freddy to come out (reveal himself) through a Nightmare Test. If they can't get certain tasks to work, then Fredy Appears, because now you know... you're in a dream.
Unless Freddy reveals himself to you before you are ready, by attacking you.
I think this is actually pretty cool, in my opinion.
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But forcing a killer to 'come out' (be revealed) by things that a Survivor does is new in this game. Typically, a killer reveals himself at his own voilition.
In this version of the game, Killer can only reveal himself by attacking -- only way.
Unless, the Survivor outs him, through the Nightmare tests.
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Personally I think Freddy's sleep should take longer to transition but last all game. Like how if you move or do gens while sick you become broken, if you move too fast and tire yourself or do a boring gen you become more sleepy.
To wake up you crouch in place and your vision goes black so you can't see anything. This should take about 30 seconds in total.
Freddy can still run your sleep timer up while being in chase. Going too slow or too fast will tire you making your sleep meter increase but walking at walking speed will keep sleep progress stable until you decide to work a boring gen and get put to sleep quickly.
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What I got out of this is Freddy gets free hit and you can't throw down pallets
Are we trying to move him from worse to so overpowered he becomes the mosted hated killer in the game
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Really? You didn't get the part about, being in a dream state -- and not knowing it? Or running up to a survivor to try to wake you up, only to find out, you're both in the dream state!
Furthermore, you have to convince survivors to wake you. If Freddy stays hidden longer, he can put everyone to sleep -- so no one can wake anyone up. So, this will keep him from wanting to attack to early.
Because then he will be revealed to at least one survivor. The others dont even know who the killer is, the longer he stays hidden not simply attacking the first person that walks by.
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Where's the counterplay in your idea?
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it is really strange that you think a killer who is completely invisible and can hit you out of invisibility is gonna waste time putting more than one survivor to sleep at a time since they wake up on hook
so he dreams you and for some reason he doesn't wait for you to start interacting with ANYTHING to get the pull off/instant down and carry, he still hits you instantly and if we stick with your original idea of not being able to use pallets while asleep he gets the second hit in probably 15 seconds, if they can use pallets probably 30 seconds
after he downs you he hooks you and you wake up, now if he decides to return to the hook after you get rescued, he waits 15 seconds if he respects borrowed time and downs you instantly since you would have no idea where he was coming from
he could also just hyper insidious camp the hook and pull people off rescue attempts
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This is a very valid point.
Maybe introduce a restriction, Freddy can't interact with anyone while invisible. Only until the Survivor reveals him on purpose or by mistake.
But he can still break pallets and gens.
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Gameplay trumps flavor (doing something to match a story like the movies in this case) every time and your changes are just for your idea of adhering to his source material. You’d be better off making a new Freddy the 13 game with these ideas than trying to force them into DBD.
As others have pointed out there’s no real counterplay the survivors can use. Freddy desereves a buff but this is just him activating godmode.
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What about this:
Freddy is invisible, but you can hear his terror radius. But he can't attack you... unless...
Unless the survivor makes a mistake:
Missing a skill check or getting a normal skill check will put in you in dream state. Same with healing. Anything that is not a perfect skill check puts you into a dream instantly.
Freddy is revealed to you. He can now attack you. (unless he's not next to you, either way he is free to attack you)
If 3 survivors are on a gen, if one of them misses a skill check (or it's not perfect), everyone on the generator gets put in dream state instantly.
Anyone who heals you and doesn't get a perfect skill check puts you into a dream and the healer into a dream at the same time.
If you heal yourself and don't get a perfect skill check -- your in the dream instantly as well.
Only WOKE survivors can wake you up or getting hooked.
Freddy does not have to be next to you to go into dream state. You can have 4 people on different generators -- each one can miss a skill check, one after the other, and they can all suddenly be in dream state -- with Freddy not having to do anything.
In addition cleaning a totem or sabotaging a hook puts you in dream state as well.
You can add more ways to fall into dream state:
Such as fast vaulting or fast jumping into lockers.
You can add as many conditions until its balanced (or take away conditions of going to dream state until it's balanced).
But Freddy doesn't put you into dream state... your mistakes do.
Also, one last thing. The WOKE survivors that try to wake you up only have like a (insert number here )% chance of waking you up. It they miss a 2nd time, time -- either A) you wake up or B) you stay asleep and now they're asleep too.
Post edited by neasaki on0 -
I'd love it if we were constantly "falling asleep" and needed to go to coffee machines or something to wake ourselves up. Anything that will prolong the game so that Freddy doesn't get obliterated as usual.
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I kinda like that.
I should add, finally, that not doing anything (if the crows arrive) puts you into Dream State as well.
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necroing to brag about being (kinda) correct.
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