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Buffs for Pig
RBT:
-Increase the RBT timer to 5 minutes instead of 2 minutes and 30 seconds.
Reasoning: This will give survivors more time to search Jigsaw Boxes if no generators were completed.
-The trap's timer will now start the moment it's attached to a dying survivor. RBT timer rules still apply (I.E The timer won't decrease when your in dying state, in a chase, on the hook, and etc).
Reasoning: This will apply instant pressure to the trapped survivor instead of applying pressure after a generator was completed. Survivors including myself could work on generators when there's a RBT on me until someone activates my RBT timer. Now, survivors will have to be cautious when they decide to work on a generator because your timer is already activated.
-Completed generators will now make the RBT's timer go 50% faster. (So if your a Jake with a RBT when there's 5 generators remaining and later 2 generators completed. Your RBT will be 100% faster than the normal RBT timer. However if 5 generators are completed and you attached a RBT to a Claudette, the RBT timer will be the regular 5 minutes because no generators has been completed as the Claudette had the RBT on her.)
Reasoning: Since the trapped survivor has additional time which is 5 minutes to search all Jigsaw Boxes. This will add more pressure to the trapped survivor when generators are completed as their timer will tick away faster. Thus encouraging other survivors who are not trapped to not do generators which will slow the game down.
0 generator(s): 5 minutes
1 generator(s): 3 minutes, 45 seconds
2 generator(s): 2 minutes, 48.75 seconds
3 generator(s): 2 minutes, 6.5625 seconds
4 generator(s): 1 minute, 34.9219 seconds
5 generator(s): 1 minute, 11.1914 seconds
-The RBT will now trigger if the survivor attempts to escape from the hatch.
Reasoning: You cannot escape through the exit gates without the RBT triggering. So why can you escape through the hatch when obviously the RBT doesn't want you to escape. The game isn't over and you'll need to remove the RBT before you can escape period.
-New option: Disable RBT
Reasoning: If the Pig camps the last Jigsaw Box or it's unsafe to search the last Jigsaw Box, there's a alternative. However this option will permanently disable your RBT timer but the RBT will still remain on your head until you do find the correct key. This will be very inefficient compared to finding the correct key. For every uncompleted searched Jigsaw Box, the "Disable RBT" option will take 30 seconds longer.
1: 30 seconds
2: 60 seconds
3: 90 seconds
4: 120 seconds
5: 150 seconds
6: 180 seconds
Stopping the "Disable RBT" option will reset all progress made to 0.
Jigsaw Boxes:
-The last Jigsaw Box that you search will always have the correct key.
Reasoning: This removes the RNG which everyone dislikes in video games as no skill is required, it's a roll of a dice. This will help survivors know exactly when they will get their RBT removed and will guarantee slowing the game down for the Pig. Additionally survivors can search certain Jigsaw Boxes to guarantee where they want the final Jigsaw Box to be searched at.
-Reduced the search time for Jigsaw Boxes down to 8 seconds.
Reasoning: To balance out the "last Jigsaw Box will have the correct key" buff.
Crouch:
-The Pig's movement speed will be increased to 100% instead of 92%.
Reasoning: Allow the Pig to cover the map faster while crouched than before. Additionally she is as fast as a running survivor which help her in mind games.
-Removed the lion roar when you charged your dash instead the lion roar will be played exactly when you begin your dash. Additionally, the insidious noise you hear when the Pig is crouched will be removed permanently.
Reasoning: This often gave every survivor close enough a cue that the Pig is about to ambush soon. Now when the survivor hears the lions roar, they'll have little to no time to react.
I'll post add-on reworks later!
Thoughts? Any confusion? Ask!
Comments
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This just sounds.... bad. Like, really bad. As in, why would I play pig with these changes?4
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This is a nerf, not a buff1
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This would kill off the already small amount of pig players.
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@Cetren @Star99er @RagingRealm
Are you just going to tell me these changes are bad and not tell me why? C'mon, I can't improve things if all the "feedback" your gonna give me is...Cetren said:This just sounds.... bad. Like, really bad. As in, why would I play pig with these changes?Star99er said:This is a nerf, not a buff
I need to why you think that this is a bad change or a nerf? I played Pig and she is my first P3 killer so I need to know why you disagree. I know my baby so just ask about something that you disagree with and I'll explain to the best of my will.RagingRealm said:This would kill off the already small amount of pig players.
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One change I'd make is making that ultra rare addon that prevents them from seeing the boxes until the clock is ticking part of her base kit rather than a rare addon. The addon should instead require a significant amount of time on the clock to have passed before the aura will be visible.
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You haven't even finished reading my post, can you at least try to finish reading the ENTIRE post, please?Hillbilly420 said:@Nickenzie said:
Hello, my name is Nickenzie and I'll like to suggest some Pig buffs. Before I can suggest buffs, I'll explain the Pig's role. Her role is to slow down the game with her RBT while having a stealth threat that can add map pressure as a survivor won't know if your there or not.RBT:
-Increase the RBT timer to 5 minutes instead of 2 minutes and 30 seconds.And I stopped right there.
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Your changes are a nerf overall. She is fairly strong as is if played correctly.
Also, the RNG aspect of her is the best part. Its Jigsaw, you're supposed to be fearful of what's next.3 -
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A five minute timer is too long. Even in the event where pressure started to build due to compelted generators, it wouldn't make much a difference. Making the key always in the last box is quite blande imo, not only does it make searching the other boxes feel like a chore, but it allows suitors to optimize there paths through the boxes to hit them all quickly. Another problem is that it basically forces pig players to use their traps at the end of the game in order for the time to have a reasonable time for the trap. It reduces the amount of free playstyles viable with the trap. The ambush is fine as is imo, a niche tool that can catch survivors by surprise during the early game when that is most needed.2
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Thank you for some actual feedback! So I'll explain why I wanted the key to be in the last Jigsaw Box, increased the timer to 5 minutes, and changed the movement speed of her crouch.Cetren said:A five minute timer is too long. Even in the event where pressure started to build due to compelted generators, it wouldn't make much a difference. Making the key always in the last box is quite blande imo, not only does it make searching the other boxes feel like a chore, but it allows suitors to optimize there paths through the boxes to hit them all quickly. Another problem is that it basically forces pig players to use their traps at the end of the game in order for the time to have a reasonable time for the trap. It reduces the amount of free playstyles viable with the trap. The ambush is fine as is imo, a niche tool that can catch survivors by surprise during the early game when that is most needed.
Why did I make it where the last Jigsaw Box will have the correct key? Currently it's RNG and some games when I play as the Pig, the survivors' RBT would be removed in the first 30 seconds. It doesn't feel right when your power is effectiveness is decided by RNG like totems (c'mon we can relate here) because then you'll have games were your power was non existent. With this change, it will guarantee that even if the survivor is optimal on path finding their way to Jigsaw Boxes, they would have to search all the Jigsaw Boxes. This guarantees a decent amount of time for the Pig where that survivor is not doing generators.
Why did I increase the timer to 5 minutes? Like I said previously, generators will speed up the RBT timer and I wanted to give a legitimate reason for other survivors to not do generators when someone has a RBT on them. Maybe I could increase the RBT timer to 4 minutes while keeping the 50% increase to speed for the RBT's timer for every generator completed?
Why did I increase her crouch movement speed to 100%? Okay, I like never use her crouch ability because Sprint Burst directly counters it however I still use it for pallet loop mind games but no more which that's the problem. I want her ambush to be more versatile while not being a must use 100% of the time.0 -
RBT:
-Increase the RBT timer to 5 minutes instead of 2 minutes and 30 seconds.Should have just said, "Make RBTs less scary and effective"
they need to decrease the time, in the movie you were given quite a short time to find the key. (in the man' s body)0 -
@Taelance said:
RBT:
-Increase the RBT timer to 5 minutes instead of 2 minutes and 30 seconds.Should have just said, "Make RBTs less scary and effective"
they need to decrease the time, in the movie you were given quite a short time to find the key. (in the man' s body)They can’t decrease time. Tested on largest maps, tampered timer actual makes it where you must search the boxes LITERALLY AS FAST AS HUMANLY possible, without causing EVEN A SINGLE CHASE OR DELAY... if one incurs.... You. Are. Dead.
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They can’t decrease time. Tested on largest maps, tampered timer actual makes it where you must search the boxes LITERALLY AS FAST AS HUMANLY possible, without causing EVEN A SINGLE CHASE OR DELAY... if one incurs.... You. Are. Dead.
my whole point is that 5 minutes is way too long, like I would have a cup of tea If I found out the timer was 5mins, plus this post is for buffs and this idea is a nerf. When I play pig I do not tunnel survivors with traps as they are not going to do gens and would get the trap off.
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@Taelance said:
They can’t decrease time. Tested on largest maps, tampered timer actual makes it where you must search the boxes LITERALLY AS FAST AS HUMANLY possible, without causing EVEN A SINGLE CHASE OR DELAY... if one incurs.... You. Are. Dead.
my whole point is that 5 minutes is way too long, like I would have a cup of tea If I found out the timer was 5mins, plus this post is for buffs and this idea is a nerf. When I play pig I do not tunnel survivors with traps as they are not going to do gens and would get the trap off.
Oh, in that case that’s fine what you said. I thought you were saying you think regular time should be shortnened.
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As a pig main, the ideas you gave are terrible for the reasons that others gave. If you want a pig buff, a NOED style hit out of the crouch would be nice. Otherwise, the rest is all just in how you play with her. I personally think she is fine just the way she is at the moment.
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Doesn't work, even with the "Disable RBT" Once the pig has someone trapped just afk crouch to body block the last trap they can never escape. Making them have to dc
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@Taelance @SpikeHowl
Did you even read my post completely before assuming why I added 5 minutes? I added 5 minutes because when other survivors completed generators over time, it would make your timer go faster. This is supposed to encourage other survivors to not do generators which is the Pig's goal, delay the game with RBT not kill survivors with RBT!Nickenzie said:
Thank you for some actual feedback! So I'll explain why I wanted the key to be in the last Jigsaw Box, increased the timer to 5 minutes, and changed the movement speed of her crouch.
Why did I make it where the last Jigsaw Box will have the correct key? Currently it's RNG and some games when I play as the Pig, the survivors' RBT would be removed in the first 30 seconds. It doesn't feel right when your power is effectiveness is decided by RNG like totems (c'mon we can relate here) because then you'll have games were your power was non existent. With this change, it will guarantee that even if the survivor is optimal on path finding their way to Jigsaw Boxes, they would have to search all the Jigsaw Boxes. This guarantees a decent amount of time for the Pig where that survivor is not doing generators.
Why did I increase the timer to 5 minutes? Like I said previously, generators will speed up the RBT timer and I wanted to give a legitimate reason for other survivors to not do generators when someone has a RBT on them. Maybe I could increase the RBT timer to 4 minutes while keeping the 50% increase to speed for the RBT's timer for every generator completed?
Why did I increase her crouch movement speed to 100%? Okay, I like never use her crouch ability because Sprint Burst directly counters it however I still use it for pallet loop mind games but no more which that's the problem. I want her ambush to be more versatile while not being a must use 100% of the time.0 -
@Nickenzie said:
Aziux said:Doesn't work, even with the "Disable RBT" Once the pig has someone trapped just afk crouch to body block the last trap they can never escape. Making them have to dc
You don't have to DC, just run through the exit gate to [BAD WORD] so you don't have to.
Which proves my point further, which makes your "buff idea" plain stupid, it makes the game so there is a standoff and lord knows you get enough of that when you are 1v1 for hatch
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You don't have to be rude and a complete jerk about it! It's the same thing on the live servers, however instead you'll die from the timer and if you try for the hatch, the Pig will probably find you anyways unless SWF told you where the hatch is.Aziux said:Which proves my point further, which makes your "buff idea" plain stupid, it makes the game so there is a standoff and lord knows you get enough of that when you are 1v1 for hatch
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I'm literally trying to suggest buffs to the Pig and you guys are being jerks and saying "It's stupid" CAN I NOT GET A INSULT AND GET SOME GOOD FEEDBACK, GOD BLESS!0
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The pig dont need any buff and what you suggest is too strong
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Omg someone actually read my post and WAS NICE ABOUT IT unless your being sarcastic which please say your not!SpitfireOrMichina said:The pig dont need any buff and what you suggest is too strong
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Even as a pig main the only things I agree with is the increased crouching movement speed and delaying the roar until you actually ambush.
5 minutes is way too much for something that's RNG based with that time I could do two generators and still have more than enough time to search the boxes.
Disabling the bear trap removes all the pressure that it has against it as you can take whatever leisurely time you need to actually get it off.
As for using the Hatch to escape I do feel like this needs to be mechanic that stays especially when it comes to end game where pig only has to be patrolling jigsaw boxes and with the fact that the Hatch closing mechanic will soon be a thing when they figure it out. I don't feel like this will be too much of a problem when it happens
As for doing generators speeding up time I feel like this would be better served as an add-on than anything else considering a lot of people have been suggesting making rule set no 2 part of her base kit this could be a good rework for it.
As much as I love it always in the last one you search I do feel like if they were to implement this idea it would have to be through an add-on and it would need some balancing.Post edited by Volfawott on1 -
Thus encouraging other survivors who are not trapped to not do generators which will slow the game down.
This is already the mechanic, it doesn't stop survivors doing generators because they know how easy it is to get them off at the moment.
I also think you approached the RNG the wrong way. Rather than making the last one the correct one, make it so that the first one can never be the right one. I feel like that would be better IMO.
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Okay so the pig is my favorite killer in concept by far. I loved the entire premise behind the saw series and this couldn't be a more perfect killer, especially in this game. I would like to see a few changes to the character and i like where you're thinking with these but they definitely would need some tweaking.
First before anything, Rules 2 aspect of no box auras until the timer starts should definitely be standard unless timer starts on application. Needed to get that out of the way first.
Your proposed change of the timer starting right away i think is in the right direction, but could use some tweaking. As far as lore goes the timer usually starts once the victim gets their video completed or trips some wire. As far as gameplay goes, timer should start as it does now (once a gen comes online) but additionally once a trapped person either starts searching a box or begins working on a gen. This would signify they are ready to play their game. As for added time based on these changes? So long as it doesn't start right away i don't think that'd be required, but i've never played survivors so i don't have a feel for this.
"RBT trigger on hatch escape" This one i've had mixed feelings on all over the place. Leaving triggers the trap as it should. Can't leave while you're playing the game. The hatch's feel is the unforseen way out. But at the same time lore wise jigsaw doesn't exactly have oversights, that's his "power". Yet still, this is amanda and not jigsaw. Ultimately last person doesn't have an opportunity to check boxes so gameplay should prevail and hatch should not trigger RBT.
"Last box has the key" This was kind of ambiguously worded, but from what i gather you mean the box that contains the key is always the last available box. 4 boxes = 4th box searched has the key, every time. This i disagree with. The game is making a choice on a box to find your key, chance is a factor. Please keep as is.
Increased speed while crouched i don't think is necessary. It doesn't feel that slow, you have auras to gens and boxes so you can move more tactical, and you shouldn't be chasing in stealth.
"Roar on lunge instead of on charge" I disagree with that particular change, but a faster charge i think would be better. No time to react i don't think is in the spirit of the game. At the same time i think they get too much time to react since you already have the audible queue, the red stain, and 360 degree sight thanks to 3rd person. If the pig can get close enough for a lunge they should have a bit more chance at success with it. Especially since you're prowling around at lower speed. Lower speed = more time for gen repair.
All in all pretty well thought out ideas.
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@Nickenzie said:
Aziux said:Which proves my point further, which makes your "buff idea" plain stupid, it makes the game so there is a standoff and lord knows you get enough of that when you are 1v1 for hatch
You don't have to be rude and a complete jerk about it! It's the same thing on the live servers, however instead you'll die from the timer and if you try for the hatch, the Pig will probably find you anyways unless SWF told you where the hatch is.
Didn't mean to come off as rude my apologies
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This is just bad overall and kills her overall feel. The idea is that completing generators screws your teammates over as it starts their timer. I mean, are you even aware how Jigsaw's traps worked in the movies?
The problem most people don't consider when they start talking about the timer is they don't take into account that abominations like Swamp and Asylum exist. Those two monster maps are the reason they have to keep the timer so long. If those maps weren't so huge, they'd have the freedom to lower the timer.
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The Pig just needs a few quality of life improvements, reworks to her addons (with some of them becoming baseline) and the Sprint Burst nerf. She doesn't need a big change to how her power works.
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Thank you for the kind feedback, it's a lot better than saying it's "Stupied". Okay if you tried doing a generator with a active 5 minute timer, I'll do the math. Let's say you was on a hook and got unhooked which starts your 5 minute timer (300 seconds). Okay let's say it took you 10 seconds to walk to a generator (300-10=290 seconds) and you 0 to 100% the generator (290-80= 210 seconds). Since you completed a generator, your timer will be going 50% faster (210*.75=157.5 seconds). Let's say it took you another 10 seconds to walk to the next generator (157.5-10= 147.5 seconds) and you 0 to 100% a generator again (147.5-80= 67.5). Since another generator is completed, your timer will be going 50% faster again (67.5*.75= 50.625 seconds). You now have 50.625 seconds to search every Jigsaw Box which I heavily doubt is enough time to search your last Jigsaw Box for the key. Remember other survivors could've completed generators when you was on the hook which will speed up your timer.Aari_Piggy66 said:Even as a pig main the only things I agree with is the increased crouching movement speed and delaying the roar until you actually ambush.
5 minutes is way too much for something that's RNG based with that time I could do two generators and still have more than enough time to search the boxes.
Disabling the bear trap removes all the pressure that it has against it as you can take whatever leisurely time you need to actually get it off.
As for using the Hatch to escape I do feel like this needs to be mechanic that stays especially when it comes to end game where pig only has to be patrolling jigsaw boxes and with the fact that the Hatch closing mechanic will soon be a thing when they figure is out. I don't feel like this will be too much of a problem when it happens
As for doing generators speeding up time I feel like this would be better served as an add-on than anything else considering a lot of people have been suggesting making rule set no 2 part of her base kit this could be a good rework for it.
As much as I love it always in the last one you search I do feel like if they were to implement this idea it would have to be through an add-on and it would need some balancing.
As for disabling the RBT, I made this an option in case the Pig camps the final Jigsaw Box or you don't feel like It's a good a idea to search the Jigsaw Box. If you do disable the RBT, you can exit through the exit gate or hatch because the RBT is disabled. If you tried to disable the RBT when you haven't even seached your first Jigsaw Box, it would take 120 seconds for 4 Jigsaw Boxes to try to disable the RBT. If you ever stop for any reason, you'll have to start over! Additionally let's say the Pig used a exhaustion add-on, disabling the RBT wouldn't get rid of the exhaustion because you still have the RBT on you! You just disabled the timer and killing mechanism, that's all. If you want to get rid of the RBT completely then find the correct key which will be the final Jigsaw Box you search.0 -
@The_Manlet said:
The Pig just needs a few quality of life improvements, reworks to her addons (with some of them becoming baseline) and the Sprint Burst nerf. She doesn't need a big change to how her power works.Exactly. I think Bricky said it best in his own video - Her concept is solid and there's nothing inherently wrong with her kit - she just needs a few numbers tweaked.
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Yeah, I watch Saw, Saw II, Saw III, Saw IV, Saw V, and Jigsaw. I like the choice of completing generators screws over your team because "Make your choice" your teammates has a option to let you struggle or have a 5 minute timer. Even if your teammates done 2 generators, you'll still have around 2 minutes.FrenziedRoach said:This is just bad overall and kills her overall feel. The idea is that completing generators screws your teammates over as it starts their timer. I mean, are you even aware how Jigsaw's traps worked in the movies?
The problem most people don't consider when they start talking about the timer is they don't take into account that abominations like Swamp and Asylum exist. Those two monster maps are the reason they have to keep the timer so long. If those maps weren't so huge, they'd have the freedom to lower the timer.
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