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Endgame Punishes Survivors for Protecting Teammates
While at first, I was in support of this new change to the game, after seeing it in action I am completely opposed to it. The game isn’t always over just because the gates are open, sometimes your teammates still need your help. Sometimes you get lost in the fog while running from a killer, and sometimes you or your teammates get stuck on a hook somewhere. Twice now I have died from the Endgame event simply because I went back to save a teammate. Once I saved one, and another got put on a hook so I went back to save them too, but due to the ‘end game’ event, which was meant to stop survivors from ‘prolonging the game’ we died on our way back to the gate from the bottom level of the Gideon Meat Plant, which is maze-like and difficult to navigate at the best of times. I’ve gotten lost for way longer than three minutes in there before. So, it is a rather oppressive time limit when dealing with a few of the maps and a person with no sense of direction (Me). Having been a devoted DBD player for years, this is the first time I’ve seen a change which has completely upset the balance of the game. Making it feel more arbitrary and frustrating than fun and challenging. My take on it is this: If the killer is still putting people on hooks, then they are still playing the game, and the survivors should be allowed the opportunity to save them without a time limit. If there must be an Endgame before that point, then saving a hooked survivor should at least reset the timer, not just slow it down, but reset it, to allow them fair time to escape. Survivors shouldn’t be punished for continuing to play with a killer who wasn’t done yet. But that's just my take on it. I'd like to know what everyone else thinks/feels about this change, and how they feel it can be 'improved' on, if at all.
Comments
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The end game was meant to create a tense ending to a long (or short) match. It isn't just to stop survivors from prolonging in the game, but to give a time frame for them to leave. It's essentially time management. Keep an eye on the bar and treat the survivor as a death if they keep getting caught and you wouldn't be able to make it out safely if you were to try for it.
Also here's a tip: Gideon Meat Plant has signs for both the stairs and the exits. Just follow the signs.
Making it feel more arbitrary and frustrating than fun and challenging.
There's plenty that's arbitrary and frustrating, though I wouldn't say this is one of them. Just work on your time management skills and follow the signs or look up to see where the doors are (you can typically see the doors while approaching them).
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I still get survivors waiting by the exit gates refusing to leave, this happen in 5/10 in high ranked. Like what the hell are you waiting for the timer to drop to 0?
Then they all leave when its about to hit 0, im glad it wasnt 3 minutes otherwise i would have to wait even 1 minute longer
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Like seriously why wont u leave #########?
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@Someissues I wait for the killer so I can get that extra chase escape event. Could boost me enough to the next Chaser level
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You'll be surprised at how many survivors t-bagged at the exit gates, no thank you
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Another game, survivors refused to leave until timer is almost over
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It's not punishing survivors for protecting teammates. You have a choice to make - save yourself or risk going back. You have to take into account the timer as well when making your decision.
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Guess I'll be dying a lot more then.
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That's your choice. Nobody's forcing you to play that way.
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Overaltruism is often what gets Survivors killed anyway.
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@SomeIssues Looks like you're not doing your job as a killer, which is #1 Pressure the survivors. You're off staring in a random room in Lery's it looks like. No wonder the survivors feel no hurry to leave.
This is the kind of killer the devs are catering to SMH. It's your job to create pressure to the point no pallets are left, you eventually kill survivors, or they're forced to leave. Seriously, you have all the power. They cannot hit you back.
@ZombieGirlORV You are correct. The EGC does not promote altruism which is hilarious as solo survivors had issues already with altruism before the EGC. Now we're better off just performing ZERO altruistic actions once the exit gates are opened. The risk is simply too high and the reward is too low. The EGC would be more aptly named "Every Man For Himself."
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99% the gate.
thank me later
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Yep, that's the approach I've been taking (where applicable), though teammates open other exit so yeah, more do this please.
@OP, I agree that maybe unhooking a survivor during EGC could maybe add 20-30 secs back on the timer, but my main issue with it is when you're the last survivor and the killer already knows where the hatch is before hooking the 3rd surv, runs over, kicks it, then you have 2 gates close together and it's a nurse.
I think the fair solution to this 'no chance' is that once a killer does kick the hatch closed then that re-enables the gens and the surv can repair a gen to re-open the hatch, this way if the killer has both exits covered then you can do a gen and still possibly escape.
And to add to that, if hatch is kicked shut while one survivor remains (in the dying position) then I think it's worth considering putting that survivor into injured state - wouldn't be the first time the killer has then gone on to waste best part of 2 mins just standing over the downed survivor who can't do a thing but effectively be t-bagged by the killer; that does work both ways.
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Current EGC sucks and should be better balanced.
- Exit gates very close
- Only 1 survivor can open more fast in 1 or 2% or re open hatch with 20seg.
- Survivor with Jigsaw EGC time don't slowed down.
- Survivor rescue for hook EGC is restart.
- Bood Warden 30/40/50
Please BHVR no work only for killer.
Post edited by slipttees on3 -
Personally I love it. It creates so much more drama when going to rescue someone. There is more danger to it, the timer is scary, that survivor better appreciate your efforts to save them!
I'm not really deterred from saving people when the timer starts, I like running around in the map with it falling apart and the spooky music, its thrilling lmao.
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Lol sounds like another entitled survivor post if you've been playing for years you should have the ability to avoid, deter, and rescue with ease, as for getting lost in Gideon honestly thought that never happened anymore as surv or killer I can traverse gideon beyond easy and Im sure 9999/10000 players can do as well. End game gives the best defense against swf either you can come pick your friend up and get downed yourself and wait til last 25% of timer to get BW and everyone die or leave and deny the killer your death simple.
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^.^ I have been playing for years, but CTS slowed down my abilities a bit, so my skills have actually gotten worse the longer I've played. You're really just restating parts of what I've already said, so thank's for actually reading it rather than commenting without even bothering. :)
I do have a horrible sense of direction. I'm not sure why, but it as bad as it is now, it only further diminishes when I'm running for my life from a crazed killer after grabbing someone off a hook/trying to distract the killer so they can escape. XD But props to you for being awesome. ^.^ Keep it up!
Still, that doesn't address any of the real problems that are evident with this change. We need more survivors to play DBD right? Otherwise, with the 4 to 1 ratio, we get those really long wait times in lobby for the killers. Wait times that are constantly complained about by the killers, so we know this is a big deal for them too. So, how does this incentivise people to play as the survivor to lower the killers wait times in lobby?
It doesn't.
There is no counter balance to the end game like there usually is for the alterations they put in. It was already difficult to go back and save teammates once the gates were open, that's why we got extra points for it, but making this makes it near impossible, and actually takes away from the fun for survivors, making the game feel anti-climactic.
The other problem I have with it is the fact that the killer shouldn't get points for survivors killed by the entity, they didn't earn them, and they aren't entitled to those points. It's rewarding killers for being unskilled. If they didn't catch the survivor themselves, they don't deserve those points.
But that's just my opinion. Thank you for yours. :)
Post edited by ZombieGirlORV on4 -
This could probably be easily avoided by taking away the extra points survivors get for a 'narrow escape'. It's why most survivors wait at the exit gate for killers.
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Dude spacing. No one wants to read a wall of text.
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- Exit gates very close
Thats true
- Survivor with Jigsaw EGC time don't slowed down.
They destroyed endgame pig.
And RBT doesnt work in the endgame.
What do you want more?
- Survivor rescue for hook EGC is restart.
Survivors need some time pressure.
- Bood Warden 30/40/50
The EGC timer is 2-4 min.
And Bloodwarden is only 1 min.
Whats the problem?
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End game is yet another way to help killer mains. It's trash for survivors. All the disconnects and they still don't get it. The only way to play this game is as a killer. It's easy and until they stop boosting the killers it's the best way to get blood points. Just play as killer.
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In the words of Arya Stark, "That's not me."
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If you want them to leave why don't you chase them out? Why you still standing there? Contemplating how poorly you played the match?
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Absolutely totally agree and play both sides
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Why don't you go chase them out? Why are just standing there? Given up? Contemplating how poorly you played?
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You could chase them out if you want them gone?
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End Game is rough on solo survivors or survivors trying to rescue people. And if you're chased as last survivor then kiss that win goodbye no matter how well you did: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYW7xMyqHok&t=1s
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Thank you for the video share, That's another thing I've been seeing a lot of in games. Killers will just camp and wait because they know you don't have enough time to go to the other gate, and they know they can't catch you if they try to chase you. They shouldn't get points just because they camp a gate for long enough. They're basically getting rewarded for trolling.
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Survivours get to the door. Person opens the door. Blood warden triggers. Oops. Its obviously unlikely since blood warden is kinda crap but i never 99% doors because that perk exists.
Eventually as survivour you gotta surrender the kill you had more then two minutes to organise the escape if you mess up then ditch the person and leave. This is a horror game no good deed goes unpunished.
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you completely missed my point once you said "Person opens the door".
also, how tf would bloodwarden trigger with the gates at 99%?
the only valid counter argument to my suggestion would be, that the killer opens the door himself, which just means you gotta hurry and leave. obviously, when 99%ing a gate you do NOT open it and instead onetap it once everyone is save.
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Blood warden was changed so upon opening the door and triggering the collapse it activates so survivors couldn't be blocked from leaving in the middle of EGC an understandable mistake considering this change was recent. The idea i had in mind was the killer was on someone and you saw the survivor coming and open the door so they could get out only to find both of you staring at the blocked gate.
Second point was addressing other people my apologies if you thought I was picking on you.
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Solo survivor and I love egc. Adds some much needed tension & pressure to what was previously a very boring endgame. I have died during it but also managed to escape even as last survivor without the hatch.
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I think the EGC would be more suited to when both exit gates have been opened. That's really when the end game loses its balance (thus an EGC would be good here). It also serves to not punish altruism carrying over from pre-end game situations while still keeping the tension and pressure on a team that is overly altruistic or confident.
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It's not so much of a problem, but I think it's a bit cheap. I use Bloodwarden after purposefully playing badly all game to slug survivors once the EGC has started until just under the 1 minute mark and letting the survivors save the survivor I had hooked after slugging. Everyone is essentially dead from that point onward. I just stand around and hit them to get points while nodding and looking fearsome.
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