Pig Hotfix?
The nerf was rly hard.
Its ok , if you nerf the RBT only a little bit in the endgame.
But delete a complete killer ability is not a good solution.
You destroyed a perkbuild and pig players dont have much freedom.
So will she get a little hotfix in the patch?
Example:
"If survivors wear a RBT,then the timer is slowed down"
Comments
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A hotfix is typically for bug fixes, not for balance changes. We're currently aiming to get a hotfix out next week but there will be no pig changes in that update. We're going to keep an eye on the pig and see if we need to make some changes before we make an decisions.
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@Peanits Are there any hotfix patch notes? I heard some were listed already on stream.
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Pig currently has no map pressure, no way to quickly end chases, and you removed the most efficient way to play her.
Normally when someone nerfs something to compensate for a game mechanic change, the nerfed character receives a compensation buff. What does pig get?
Since you're so dead-set on making her use traps mid game, could we get a buff there?
Maybe some kind of penalty when survivors search boxes? Rule set no 2 base? Have her scream happen at the end of the lunge instead of the beginning? Like, you kicked a low tier killer even further down without so much as a "Thanks for all the fish"
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I think, skill checking when survivors search boxes should be more difficult. And her ambush should be able to run a little longer.
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puts rbt on survivor, gate opens, survivor escapes =/
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I personally think that they need to remove the start up roar from ambush and make her have a 100% movement speed when crouched. She is way too slow when she sneaks up on survivors. For her RBTs, I think they need to make it so that the first box survivors check has a 0% chance of containing the key.
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Man, I really hope they eventually come around to buffing Pig.
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By the stream i watched today. Doubt it whole heartidly cause they went over a good idea. Said they thought about it but survivors too dumb to deal with 2 timers. So this is the ultimate change there sinking teeth into. One good thing about this change is improving skills in sekiro. But sadly that doesn't benifit all the pig mains.
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I mean it's not fair that her power is basically disabled at the end game. The nerf hit her too hard and she needs compensation.
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Just you're traps before the last gen gets done. Pig is still fine
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The stats can be fine, but I still think this nerf was not good.
And yes the pig can still kill many survivors.
But I hate this nerf.
Because it destroyed a complete playstyle and thats the bad thing.
I only play pig, because I loved endgame pig.
I had this great SAW feeling as endgame pig: "Lets play a game".
Has normal pig its more like:"Aaaaaand the RBT RNG f*******ed my addons".
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Don't agree that she is fine.
There's a ton of room in that statistic for the numbers to be skewed somewhere, so that to me does not hold much weight.
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@ShyN3ko Use your traps after the fourth gen and you create a new sort of endgame survs have to wait for the traps to get off of all heads or put pressure on survs with a trap on purpose.
The issue is less the change and more the complain of almost everyone without even trying to adept and figuring out new strategies. So many players would have abused the pig without a change or an only reduced timer during the edc.
They sure need to figure out something for the Pig but not the because of the latest change she wasn't in a good spot anyway. Her traps always weren't good and most people just didn't noticed because they could secure some kills thanks to a brain dead mechanic that rewards camping and tunneling at the end of the game. I still love to play as the Pig and I know some Pig mains who still enjoy her too.
This is one of the first times the devs actual reacted to a problem before it even went live and I'm grateful for that.
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"Use your traps after the fourth gen and you create a new sort of endgame survs have to wait for the traps to get off of all heads or put pressure on survs with a trap on purpose."
You could already do that prior to the Endgame Collapse patch. In fact, it would be better to do it back then because you didn't get punished if the last gen popped while you were attempting such a maneuver.
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But complete delete the ability is not the right way.
He the RBT needed a nerf for the EGC.
But deleting isnt a good options.
Destroying playstyles is a bad things in games.
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People keep saying that her traps are disabled in the end game, but they're NOT. As long as a survivor has a trap on their head by the 4th gen being finished, her traps are not disabled. In fact by the time the 5th gen pops, if a survivor has a trap on their head they have those two timers to worry about at the same time. Also, as I said in another pig post asking for her traps to be enabled regardless if a gen has popped or not in the end game, imagine if this was the case. Survivors wouldn't even bother saving a survivor on the hook who just got a trap placed on their head in the end game, because they're dead no matter what you do. In fact if I had an RBT on my head and was hooked, I would 100% kill myself on the hook so some idiot survivor doesn't try to come and get me and the pig doesn't get more kills. There's not enough time to search 5 boxes AND get out before the end game collapse even if the timer was slowed with survivors with RBTs on their heads.
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Her unused traps are disabled. That is what people are referring to. The nerf is basically "Discard all unused traps when the last Generator is completed." The solution to your issue has been stated multiple times.
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So a killer who isn't top tier gets a straight nerf with no compensatory buff, but thats fine because low ranks do decent with her anyway. Whats her play/success rate in red ranks?
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Ambush is weak, and RBTs weak now. :o
I think it's time to just switch my normal MS main to barfy waifu Plague, or Trapper.
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@Peanits It's like that because Pig has amazing stalling with her Bear Traps. I don't think people realize this, but if you make a build built around that you can have enough time to get a 4K since Survivors see that Bear Trap and instantly think its an urgent matter to remove it.
I think she's fine as she is at the moment but some may disagree.
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What's her play rate, though?
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And in the last Data sheet the complete survivor escape rate was 65%-80%.
And Dcs are kills,too.
I rly dont trust data in DbD.
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"Hotfix" means a fix... nerfs for killers are not bugs... :D even if the nerf applied destroy the experience .. i don't get it why they needed a year to nerf piggy tho... only for the end game ? well end game for me is nothing ... never died because of that.... a little advice for devs, " lower the timer from 2 minutes to 30 seconds " :)) it's a buff for the killers D:
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I still dont trust them.
Ok, she could have a ~70% kill rate,
but she has still some problems in the basekit.
I dont give examples, because I have a complete discussion about it,
but I must update the discussion first.
Btw I wouldnt look on the kill rate, I would look at the play rate in high rank.
Playing vs Nurse and Billy only is rly boring.
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Except her RBTs require generators to be activated. I mean yeah, sure maybe her RBTs exploded if you went out the door and they weren't activated before, but does that really make sense? The game doesn't start until the RBT is activated. People who put RBTs on people's heads after all generators were done were simply playing her wrong originally.
Also not trusting a dev's INTERNAL SYSTEM INFORMATION is just silly.
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"People who put RBTs on people's heads after all generators were done were simply playing her wrong originally."
That is a pretty close-minded way of seeing things IMO. Dedicated late/endgame builds were a very legitimate way to play her (even if I didn't like to play it myself). It's also ignoring the situation of people who just happened to have one or two traps laying around by the time the last gen popped, either because they deliberately held on to them until late game or because they just got the wrong end of RNG with the traps and were unable to stall effectively.
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@TAG Member The power of the Pig specifically says that for the RBTs to become active a generator has to be done. This means people who were playing the Pig by putting RBTs on AFTER all generators were completed were in fact playing her wrong. The situation of people who just happened to have one or two traps laying around by the time the last gen popped failed at using her power, they deserve for her RBT to not kill anybody if they left the exit gate, and again, if the RBT is not active, why would it suddenly become active and kill someone? It makes no sense. People who were focused on putting RBTs on people's heads AFTER the game was done were people who failed to kill their targets.
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Firstly, you understand that the description of the Pig's power did not list every nuance of how the Pig's power work, yes? It doesn't list that the timer auto-starts when all the Gens are completed, it doesn't mention that the timer pauses in a chase, it doesn't list that Survivors have to occasionally complete skill checks when trying to get traps off, it doesn't mention that the trap doesn't auto-kill when a Pig tries to forcefully bring the Survivor past the Exit Gate, it doesn't mention that the Pig's terror radius gradually fades in an out when she crouches/uncrouches respectively. Those are all intended things by the devs, so saying that the Pig players were wrong because the devs simply didn't bother to write those things down in the description is just silly. The fact is that the description (as well as descriptions of other perks, abilities, etc.) is just not clearly written (probably because there just isn't enough space to cover every specific nuance).
Also, if what you said was true, then why was nothing changed until the Endgame Collapse happened? This wasn't changed (as far as I'm aware) because the devs decided they didn't like that the Pig's Reverse Bear Traps could be used to keep people from escaping; it was changed because they were concerned about the interaction between the Pig's Reverse Bear Traps and the newly-implemented Endgame Collapse. In fact, if you listened to their stream, they said they very much considered having the Endgame Collapse timer slow down while someone was wearing a Trap; the only reason they decided against it was because they didn't like the idea of a Survivor having to manage two different timers, even if they would end up having more than enough time to do so. It had nothing to do with this notion that Pig players were failing to kill people and should thus not have a chance to make up for it (which doesn't make sense considering that there were people who dedicated builds for saving traps for late-end game).
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I still just want them to rework the 75% of her add ons that are completely useless garbage.
Debuffs while trapped completely go against her ability to stall by encouraging tunnelling survivors.
She has Jigsaw box add ons that actively BUFF survivors by allowing them to get more great checks.
Some of her ultra rares and rares have FAR worse downsides than the buffs they give.
Even Last Will, one of her ALRIGHT add ons just took a big hit because there's a chance her power becomes completely disabled before its effect can even be used.
It's a terrible design when players are happier to see a bloodweb full of commons and uncommons that rares and ultra rares.
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You've only failed to kill a target when they've actually left the match. You might not like the end game but it's still a part of the game to plan around.
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@TAG Member The timer starts when any gen is completed, so it pretty much does list that. The timer pausing in a chase was a result of a change in the way her power worked, not the original power, was it not? The skill check thing is pretty obvious, as anything you do that has a bar has skill checks involved, except for mending/snap out of it/wake up, as far as I'm aware. This should mean you'd expect skill checks out of her boxes. The trap not autokilling a survivor the Pig tries to bring past the exit gates is likely to prevent abuse cases of her trying to get a kill before someone's even been hooked once. If this didn't exist, a pig with NOED could instantly kill someone. Should be an obvious reason why that works that way. In the description it says when using the secondary power the pig has no terror radius, that pretty much describes that. Doesn't mention it's gradual, but does that really matter? What DOES matter is that her ability SAYS that the trap only activates AFTER A GENERATOR IS FINISHED. This should mean that they INTENDED for the trap to be placed BEFORE all generators were finished. Why they didn't change it before EGC, perhaps they saw it as nothing major to deal with until EGC came along, in which case they needed to make the change. Either way, the power description itself pretty much tells you how they intended for her to play, and putting traps on people's heads AFTER generators were powered was not intended. It may have been something they decided to let go because it wasn't that big of a deal until EGC came along, but I'm pretty sure they didn't intend for her to be played that way. Also I'm not saying that people are playing her wrong for the devs NOT putting information in her power, I'm saying people are playing her wrong for ignoring something that the devs PURPOSEFULLY put in her power's description. The generator thing wouldn't have even been used as a lever in her power if they wanted you to just wait until the generators were done to put them on. They would have not even used generator completion as a requirement, they'd just activate them automatically.
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Legion got gutted so devs arent afraid of gutting killers
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I still get good results with Pig.
Surveillance and Discordance help track generator activity, allowing The Pig to creep up covertly.
Nurse Call is also handy to find injured survivors and again approach without a terror radius.
Attaching traps will slow survivors down and give the chance of encountering survivors on the Jigsaw boxes.
Overall, the best strategy is to concentrate on generator progression and stealth approach.
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Yeah pig is still a good killer with trash addons.
But its still bad to destroy a nice playstyle.
Thats just more frustrating for players,
because they are forced for 1 playstyle.
And thats not good in a game.
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"The timer starts when any gen is completed, so it pretty much does list that."
The timer started when a gen was a completed or when the gates were powered, so it did not list that. You are objectively wrong on this.
"What DOES matter is that her ability SAYS that the trap only activates AFTER A GENERATOR IS FINISHED."
My point is that arguing that they're doing it wrong because the devs couldn't fit that in the description makes no sense. The reasons for the different things that were left out of the description are irrelevent because the important thing is that all of those interactions were INTENDED by the devs, including having trap timers auto-start. You can't just say "Oh those things that were left off the description? Yeah, those don't count because XYZ. But this thing that was left out? PROOF THAT YOU GUYS WERE DOING IT WRONG." That is textbook double standard.
"Why they didn't change it before EGC, perhaps they saw it as nothing major to deal with until EGC came along, in which case they needed to make the change."
Doesn't that mean that they deemed it an acceptable way to play the Pig? Ergo not wrong? Assuming it wasn't intended to be a valid playstyle in the first place.
"Also I'm not saying that people are playing her wrong for the devs NOT putting information in her power,"
That is exactly what you are doing. You are splitting hairs here. You are judging how people were playing the Pig based on the literal wording of the description and nothing more (and then arbitrarily dismissing the issues with the literal wording of the description when it doesn't suit your case). You have to judge things by how the devs knowingly implemented the features, not by what they left out of the power description. Otherwise, by that logic, Pigs who weren't throwing their Survivors past the Exit Gates were playing her wrong because the ability says that traps trigger past the Exit Gate, which is PURPOSEFULLY what it says in the description, going by your logic.
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@TAG you're being super generous calling it "logic" lol this is straight mental gymnastics
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Honestly, I'd like to see this as a compensation buff:
As long as the exit gates are not powered, traps activate as soon as they're placed on the survivor.
This also has the added benefit of stopping survivors from 99%ing gens, removing the trap, then leaving.
It also makes the traps a threat RIGHT NOW, as opposed to eventually
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She's not weak.
You were just used to play her in only one way.
Late game Pig was NEVER the most effective way of playing her. Watch any high level player playing Pig at any given moment.
Late game Pig was just the EASIEST way of playing her, because it allowed you to cheat game fundamentals and basic chases and mindgames.
You probably also only use her ambush attack to sneak on survivors and never to mindgame pallets, which is the better use of the ambush attack (for sneaking to survivors it's just better to get up and normal attack them, since it takes a while for the TR and the red stain to come back after you get up). Taking away the roar before the attack would unnecessairily remove counterplay from her ambush.
I recommend you watch good players playing Pig and stepping up your game.
And not trusting NUMBERS AND FACTS just show how little idea you have of what you're talking about.
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Im a calculate player.
I use all ingame informations and build up my strategy to win the match.
The pig character design is perfect for me.
But there are problems.
I cant calculate RNG.
So i must use the other functions from the RBT.
With endgame piggy,I can calculate and build up my strategy.
This was my playstyle.
And they just delete my playstyle and now I must calculate RNG.
Late game Pig was just the EASIEST way of playing her, because it allowed you to cheat game fundamentals and basic chases and mindgames.
So play another playstyle is cheating.
Next SAW movie.
"All victims escape with a RBT on the head."
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The most prominent Pig player I am aware of (Ardetha) thinks she's weak and strongly disapproved of the nerf in question, so idk.
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I don't follow that player but good killer players that play all killers, so have a good understanding of the game don't seem to be complaining.
Your playstyle didn't get deleted from the game.
You can still use traps in the late game.
You just can't NOED slap people after the gens were done, put traps on everyone and get free kills.
It's not a merit to calculate a playstyle that removes nearly all counterplay. It's going for the easy way out.
I'm pretty sure that if you're a fundamentally good killer player you'll be alright with the Pig changes. You just have to ADAPT. Use your traps a little bit early and stop relying on the part of the game where you essentially lost already to start making moves. You'll become a better player from that.
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You can still use traps in the late game.
Nope
It's not a merit to calculate a playstyle that removes nearly all counterplay. It's going for the easy way out.
Destroy all 5 totems or just go through the open gate?
You'll become a better player from that.
So i must change my complete playstyle, because the devs delete it.
Then Im main maybe "Basement Trapper".
*next patchnotes*
- Trapper cant place beartraps around the basement
This is a forum and I have a opinion:
"Deleting a ability ingame isnt a good solution".
"Nerf the ability, but dont delete it".
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Nothing has been deleted you dolt.
"The Pig changes:
RBTs only become active whenever a generator is completed. Inactive RBTs will no longer trigger when attempting to leave via an exit gate. *NOTE: Initiating the End Game Collapse will not complete generators, but will block them. This means that any inactive RBTs will remain inactive."
If you can read, you'll notice that the only ways survivors will not be prevented from leaving with an RBT on their heads is if you use it A F T E R the gens are all done. Meaning, if you didn't hold on to your traps for the entire game like an idiot, you'll be fine.
Use the traps with 2, 1 gens missing. Easy. You can still play late game Pig.
You just can't play BRAINDEAD late game Pig anymore.
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That nerf happened because otherwise knocking down a survivor after the gates were powered GUARANTEED a free kill with NO COUNTERPLAY. If you really want kills with no skill or counterplay, you're not a good competitor. Beating an opponent when they can do nothing about it is not skillful. You knock someone down, put a trap, and all you gotta do is stop them from taking the trap out. Bam. Free kill.
It was patched out because your fun and your chances at winning are not more important than anyone else's.
Things are subject to change all the time. Survivors who gained time by looping killers + free escape with old DS got mad when it got changed. But it was unhealthy and needed to go. Same with changing MoM now. Since no one's fun is more valuable than anyone else's, the game needs to be adjusted so that both sides are playing and have a fighting chance, and no-counterplay and unhealthy scenarios need to be removed, period.
EDIT: and the numbers say that Pig doesn't need help now. Numbers>your anecdotal evidence. Deal with it.
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I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure Ardetha is one of those players who is good with most/all Killers and also happens to play Pig a lot (enough so that BHVR has asked him for his opinion on the state of the Pig).
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