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The Blendette Hate -- Let's be Reasonable
It's clear that the community hates Claudette and her ninja ways.
I find this funny, because their's one other thing the community really hates: God Loopers.
Killers hate being looped around all day. This is the clear Killer hate meta: they hate DS, they hate MOM, and they hate Adrenaline, because these all give "second chances" to survivors in the loop chase.
The problem is, these killers are being irrational and not thinking clearly. Reason it: why do Survivors loop? It's because they can't do anything other than loop! Killers hate it but the thing is there's nothing else for Survivors to do.
Stealthing doesn't win games. At least, not at the higher levels. I should know. I play stealth primarily. You need strong looping to win at higher levels.
Until BHVR balances the game to make other options aside from looping viable at the highest levels, you are only going to see looping at eh highest levels -- and looping with heavy SWF Comm support for that matter.
The things you should be hating on and pushing change for, are looping mechanics and SWF -- that we already see today. But the things you shouldn't be hating on: are things like Blendette and people trying to use stealth to survive.
I'm not saying let Stealthy people go, kill and hook them when you find them. But they are not the enemy. They are your friend. We should be pushing for changes in the game that enable more balance among all survivor and killer strategies. Somewhere along the line BHVR took the game too far in one direction.
These include:
- Nerfs to Killer detection abilities, especially those that can be equipped on killers who are strong in the chase (like Spirit and Nurse). This creates a gameplay imbalance that makes these killers too strong in comparison to other killers.
- Nerfs to looping mechanics. Windows, palettes, etc. have been tweaked but they need even further tweaking. Vault mechanics may also need to be addressed. Fixes to maps won't be needed if the core looping mechanics are fixed.
- Fixes to lighting. Seriously, the game needs to stop looking like Dead in the Daylight. Let sneaking around be possible. Make more shadows in the map. Not every corner of the map needs to be dark, but there should be enough dark places in all maps. It needs to be such that even if I'm wearing a bright pink Meg outfit I can still hide in shadows on most maps if I need to.
This benefits killers too -- if Stealth players are viable and doing great at the highest levels, then that means killers that are strong against Stealth -- like Doctor and Freddy, stop being "F-Tier" and become viable at higher ranks.
And more gameplay variety is always good.... for everyone.
A lot of rebalancing work needs to be done though, and this won't go anywhere unless BHVR acknowledges these problems with the game, with a clear plan to fix them. That may be asking for too much though, I do not know.
Remember this is supposed to be a Horror game, and proper atmosphere and dark environments are part of that. Super bright maps everywhere and run and gun gameplay do not for a horror game make.
Comments
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@Mochan I think the thing people are hating about "Blendette" isnt stealthing entirely, but rather the ability to be so hard to see, even when staring strait at them. The Idea that the skin is doing the work, not you. Theres plenty of perks and items/offerings in the game already allowing for a stealth gameplay at all levels of play.
I recommend checking out Pain Reliever on youtube. He breaksdown both survivor and killer gameplay and gives reasoning for his thought process. He also plays stealthy without just hiding in a bush...
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I personally prefer the chase aspect of the game over the whole stealth part. I dont really have a problem with stealthy survivors unless it's like all 4 of them just hiding, literally not doing anything. Had a game like that recently, lasted waaaaay longer than it should've. I think the game is in an alright spot, the main thing I would personally want to see is something more interactive for survivors to do to help them escape the match. A second objective, so survivors don't just have to hold m1 and be bored and killers wont have to deal with super fast matches at high ranks.
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I was playing a few solo games today as survivor. I ended up in a lobby with two fully dark cosmetic Blendettes. One of them burned a thick mist offering, the other burned a MacMillan estate offering. I'm guessing they were SWF. So they were practically invisible under these conditions.
The killer was a Legion. At one point I got downed and hooked. One of the Blendettes rescued me. The Legion came running back to my hook, tunneled me and downed me again. Same thing happened after I was rescued again.
A few minutes later I get a message from the Legion player apologizing to me for the tunneling as he had no intention of going back to the hook to tunnel, but to get my savior as they had make your choice on. But since he could not spot my saviors either time because they basically were camouflaged (even I don't know where they went as they just urban evasioned away after saving me), I was the only visible one in sight running for my life, well what else was he to do. Pretend he didn't see me? I appreciated the apology, and understood his plight.
At the same time I don't blame the Claudette players for not being spotted. But it sucks when that happens because the Claudettes just vanish and you are the only target in sight. Kind of makes me not want to be in lobbies with Blendettes when that kind of thing happens.
Of course playing killer its frustrating as hell to have a survivor just vanish like that. Only times that rarely works on me is when I'm doing spooky Myers and I spot their auras. Or with Clown, I'll just start throwing gas bottles around where I last saw them. Or Doc, just zap that madness.
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I strongly disagree with making the game darker. It's going to make playing on console even more difficult because they can't change the graphic settings. Maps like The Game, Lerys or Macmillan are extremely dark and its way too easy for survivors (especially Claudettes) to vanish. PC players can just use low graphics to make grass and shadows disappear and they can increase the gamma of the game
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Just point at the blendettes. Bet the killer doesn't go after you
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A lot of Claudettes also just literally sit around hiding in corners whether they're being chased or not. I had a game the other day where I was literally the only one who did generators, and when I got downed, all the Claudette did was hide in corners waiting for someone to do gens, but there was also a locker Dwight and Ace, so the match took forever, The others got downed eventually and only the Claudette was left, and she was just crouching the whole time, moving just enough where crows wouldn't get her, then she'd move to another spot and do similar things. The killer finally found the hatch and closed it, and she got trapped at the exit gate. I personally was happy to see her die as she basically just farmed me off the hook and then went to a safe spot to just hide, expecting me to do all the gens while also being chased and trying to keep the chases going long enough for the team to do gens, which they weren't doing. Two of them were SWF for sure, not sure about the other.
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I only "hate" Claudettes cause there's a gazillion of them, nothing else.
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When you're literally staring at a Claudette and don't realize it because maps are so dark (from the killer's perspective; survivors have a super bright PoV by comparison, for whatever reason), it becomes a problem. So yes, let's be reasonable and understand that the character is an issue due to the lighting.
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I'm for it. I don't hate Blendettes, I'd actually prefer a more stealthy, less loopy game. It would add to the horror atmosphere, if killer could down you faster, but finding you were more challenging. Plus, it feels so idiotic running around some object for ages, whereas I have the utmost respect for players who, not so much stealth through the whole game, but rather have the ability to lose me in a chase.
I have the feeling though, most players, especially experienced survivors would oppose such a course.
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This game is entertaining because loops are a challenge between two players, killer and survivor. Its all about mindgames, double backs, pretend to respect a pallet and so on. Playing against 4 stealth immersed survivor is just boring; for the sams reason i hate taking non-mindgaming loops, like that stupid window in fratcured cowshed, the other one in mcmillan storehouse, cow loop and so on.
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I agree with you, and I definitely feel most survivors would rather be strong at looping than juking or stealthing or losing killers in a chase. You clearly see a lot of opposition among survivors here when anyone suggests nerfs to looping. There is definitely an adrenaline rush to it, but there's also a different kind of rush to juking and losing a killer.
I just think that a slower, more methodical game makes for a better horror atmosphere rather than the kind of run and gun looping and chasing that describes the game today.
I believe the devs actually also feel this way; they've said that they want to make chases end faster. And I think that's how the game was originally envisioned. It's just that somewhere along the way they lost focus on that and ended up turning the game into what it is today.
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Actually you can't make grass and shadows disappear on PC without editing the game files.
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And my proposed changes will give both a chase and stealth their place in the game.
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That was actually on you, you should have also stealthily slinked away. Sometimes you have to choose the right way to escape. And believe me, you can stealth away even if you're not using Claudette. Especially on McMilan and with Purple Haze.
I'm not actually a Claudette main -- I'm a Feng Min main. I play most of my games as Feng Min and I do it with stealth. All the sneaks and jukes I do as Claudette, I can also do as Feng Min. Though you do sort of need Urban Evasion at the minimum.
If you weren't specced for stealth it's easier to get found.
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I'd like to point out that there are many times killers have stared at me as Feng Min on dark maps, and even on not-so-dark maps, and didn't see me.
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I prefer professional and optimal loopers over blendettes all day every day. I like looping, no issue for me.
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I am definitely a stealth based survivor.
That said, something needs to be done about Claudette. I know from first hand experience you don’t NEED camo to stealth - I have stealthed with Kate in her bbq shirt and Meg in her sherbet ice cream 90s gear. Every other survivor has at least one tell tale sign for the killer, except Claudette and in a game where time is money, this is a problem - made even worse in actual chases because they are so hard to see (let alone without corn.)
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This!
There is in active stealth of the player which requires a lot of skill, well and then there is Claudette. Braindead, passive and requires nearly 0 skill but is extremely rewarding. Blendette needs changes.
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I agree with your base principle of looping being an issue but it's the only thing survivors have so they are forced to. However, just because we want to make stealth more viable does not mean that Claudette isn't an issue, she is.
"Nerfs to Killer detection abilities, especially those that can be equipped on killers who are strong in the chase (like Spirit and Nurse). This creates a gameplay imbalance that makes these killers too strong in comparison to other killers."
Stealth is not unviable because of killer detection perks. The detection perks are completely balanced much less creating "imbalance". The detection perks do not need touching at all.
"Nerfs to looping mechanics. Windows, palettes, etc. have been tweaked but they need even further tweaking. Vault mechanics may also need to be addressed. Fixes to maps won't be needed if the core looping mechanics are fixed."
Looping from windows and pallets is way too strong. There are too many safe pallets and not enough mind gameable ones. The window and pallet loops also allow way, way too much time to be wasted. However, map design is why the core looping mechanic is so strong and is what needs fixing.
"Fixes to lighting. Seriously, the game needs to stop looking like Dead in the Daylight. Let sneaking around be possible. Make more shadows in the map. Not every corner of the map needs to be dark, but there should be enough dark places in all maps. It needs to be such that even if I'm wearing a bright pink Meg outfit I can still hide in shadows on most maps if I need to."
I actually agree with this. That said, this would need to come in tandem with the pallet, window and loop changes. I also think there needs to be massively more tall grass/reeds/boxes/fog etc to give more chances to juke mid chase.
We need looping nerfed, but we also need to give the survivors others ways to survive than just pallets.
These changes of yours even more so emphasize why claudette needs nerfing. Hypothetically if these changes went through, Claudette would be beyond broken.
The core of all these problems is bad map design which is why it's my biggest issue in the game.
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You guys are aware that you can play stealthy AND be good at looping at the same time right?
Anyway, the last thing I want is for the game to be darker. I already nearly have an aneurysm playing because I need to turn the brightness up in certain maps, and I'd have to do that even more.
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i dont really mind stealthy claudettes, what i find a little dumb though is, when im standing behind them, charging the chainsaw and suddenly they just blend in with a dark object behind them and i completely lost track of them for a couple of seconds.
thats not the survivors skill, thats just a chameleon at that point!
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Feng Min has an outfit that has no tells. Use normal or P3 head, Green Sci Fit Shirt and Black pants. She is about as invisible as Claudette in most situations.
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Actually you can't.
Stealth requires a big commitment, and I'm not talking perks. When you see a Killer do you buck or do you try to stay still? You have to make a choice, you cannot do both. If you don't commit to either loop or stealth, you will get caught.
If you try to stealth killer will get too close and you won't have the space you need to effectively loop. Survivors have to choose one master, you can't really do both. Sure you can be primarily a looper and choose to stealth when you can, but that's normal. The inverse is also true; if you stealth sometimes you will loop when the situation calls for it.
Looping means you go for the safe spots as soon as the killer gets near. Going stealth is different, you do not make a break for the safe spots instead you usually try to juke when the killer is close and you often need to do so in unsafe places. You do a lot of risky plays letting the killer pass right by you as you crouch by a door way or a window and the killer walks by, or crouching behind a pile of tires or a tree stump as the killer walks around. If he sees you you're screwed and it's too late to loop. So you need to choose what to do when the killer is near. You can't do both.
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Actually u can. Play Blendette and loop. Chances are that the killer loses you while looping cuz blendettes blend in the environment even while running. Happened to myself often and I saw that happening to others aswell.
Especially now with broken sound, the only tell tail is currently visual. And scratch marks are kinda broken aswell, appear to late to be reactive and more just like a hint to follow.
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I'm think stealth play is a totally fine/fair way to play, but I think Blendette pushes things a bit too far. I think stealthing should be about making sure you can maneuver around the Killer to avoid detection, not being able to still avoid being seen when the Killer does manage to look at where you are hiding.
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Wearing a skin that looks the same like your environment and that makes you basically invisible even if the killer is looking straight at you, that's not skill, that's bad game design.
Skilled stealthy play is when you evade being in the killer's line of sight and he won't hear you.
Skill should be the deciding factor if you win a match or not. Not which clothes you are wearing.
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Stealthplay isnt just putting on the camo skin and ducking in a dark spot. Its actively evading the killer by staying out of their FOV. Not many players actually want to invest in learning how to do this.
Just looping is easier and more "fun".
The notion that stealth and looping are mutually exclusive is ridiculous. Blendettes are near invisible until found, but then they can still loop, who wouldve guessed?
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I think most of the hate that Blendette receives is not do to the fact that they hide but that that's all they do. Most of the hate isn't even from killers but from survivors who get these teammates and see them do nothing the whole game and wait for everyone to die for hatch. I'm with you on that fact that stealth really ins't a viable option and something should be done to make it better but saying the only reason people hate on Blendette because they are tying to play stealthy is just wrong.
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If Killers had the same FOV/POV as Survivors I wouldn't have any issues with blendette but they don't. The Tiny FOV that killers are given makes seeing blendette's incredibly difficult on most maps.
It's the same thing with DeathGarden, The Hunter's FOV is so small that a Runner can just slip behind them and hide in a bush and get away. Thankfully DBD has scratchmarks but if they're not running then goodluck finding a Blendette on Yamaoka/macmillan/corn maps.
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It's supposed to be a team game where the survivors essentially tag in and out; I hate having blendettes in my game if I'm survivor or killer, because searching for an invisible urban immersion player is boring and having one on my team increases my chances of death by a large margin, even if I have a good game in terms of looping the killer, etc.
Sure, some of them do gens, but most are too scared to do them if they so much as HEAR the TR, even if they can see the entity's legs moving on the obsession on the bottom left.
I do agree there needs to be room for more playstyles, but that playstyle is just a means to let your team lose and give you a chance at a free escape. (unless, of course, there is a really good carry on survivor team)
Also as a killer, I find loops annoying but I don't hate survivors for it and at least I know I have SOME pressure on someone; adrenaline is annoying, but whatever; MoM I have no issue with.
So basically, I agree with you that there needs to be more for a survivor to do other than doing gens or looping; the introduction of new items with new effects could do that although I personally don't have any ideas. Flashlights and maps give new objectives, but it's very limited, and doesn't really deal with the fact that looping is the only way to survive vs a killer. (Though realistically, it's damn good for wasting killer time)
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I prefer to play stealth, not evade, kind of in close terror radius but sneak around that Killers dont see me. Its more fun than keep staying away from Killers.
Though in other hand I want to be better at chasing, the 1st hook in a game usually a down hill point for survivors team (3 survivors do gen instead of 2 survivors go to save & 1 do gen) I dont want myself can not buy at least 1min for team.
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If you people think camo Claudette is bad, it's even worse in Deathgarden. It's so hard to focus on runners.
Still, her prestige clothes needs to be brighter.
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@SunderMun Because that game promotes what people here are complaining about.
Survivors losing Killers in a chase.
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Killers complain about looping so you stealth. They complain about stealth so you loop. There really is no winning. I play as Claudette (she's one of my three mains) and half the time do more gens and saves then th rest of my team combined. Just because a player prefers stealth doesn't mean they don't do things for the team.
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This is a very well-thought out post. I agree with a lot of what you said.
Having a healthy mixture of looping and stealth should hopefully please most of the player base.
Just a word of caution. You don't want to make stealth too strong. Otherwise, Nurse and Spirit will be significantly weaker. I'm all for strengthening stealth, but it needs to reasonable.
Killers like Billy and Wraith should be susceptible to looping. And killers like Spirit and Nurse should be susceptible to stealth. That would make for an interesting variety of game play.
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I hate blendettes because they don't do any gens! They're so useless most of the time and farm you every time they get the chance too. They crouch in corners even when the killer is chasing the obsession!
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First of all it was a Legion who came running to the hook like 2 seconds after I was saved. Second I was playing Dwight in his pizza delivery cosmetic. You know the orange bicycle gear, yellow helmet, big red pizza box on my back. No amount of mist was hiding all that. Two seconds was not nearly enough time time to get to any kind of safe cover. It was Shelter Woods and my hook was sitting out in the wide open.
So unless I had the speed of Sonic the hedgehog, or the killer was blind as a bat, there was no way I was getting away from there unseen.
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@thrawn3054 Killers usually don't complain about the looping itself, they complain about not having enough time for chases. Chases are the fun part, but gens are currently done too fast.
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Claudettes that hide all the time suck in a chase usually. Yea they are tough to find but once found they go down fast and easy. Also a lot of them try to pull stupid ######### that only works against bad killers. Running around an object then trying to crouch walk away with Iron Will and Urban Evasion. Newsflash, if you are injured you leave puddles of blood that any smart killer will see and still find you. If scratch marks just disappear I know you are nearby and can't have gone far because you aren't running. Oh and they always ALWAYS forget about the crows. I find so many survivors because of crows. One guy asked "how did you know where I was"... well I heard a crow go off on the tile behind me, I know it wasn't me sooo had to be a survivor. Turn around and search the area to find you.
And the fact I use Stridor on my Spirit makes it impossible, IM-#########-POSSIBLE, for you to pull those crouch walk jukes on me. I will hear you and just smack your ass out of phase walk. EZ PZ lemon squeezy.
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@SunderMun "It's supposed to be a team game..."
No it's not. You are not a team, you are a group of survivors. Yes, it's generally in your best interest to play to keep everyone alive as long as possible, because the longer the entire group is alive the greater the chance any individual survivor will escape. But you are not bound to save them, and in some cases you are better off leaving them to die or playing selfishly to save yourself.
Like if push comes to shove, I would rather you die than I die. So if we are in a situation where it's just the two of us and there is no way we are going to finish the gens, I'm going to play selfishly and let you die if you get caught. Or I will lead the killer to you if I get caught and hope they go after you.
People need to stop saying this is a team game. It isn't. The moment you realize that is the moment you will start to be a better survivor. If you want to sacrifice yourself so that someone else has a chance to escape, that's fine too, but you are not obligated to do that. I tend to only do that if I know that I have no chance to escape and the other guy does. But I'm not doing it to help a "teammate" I'm doing it because I know my fate is sealed, so might as well spite the killer and deny them more kills.
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@NoShinyPony I have to disagree. I've seen plenty of them complain about looping. That said, I agree gens go too fast.
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I just thought Blendette was a meme.
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And do you think that's acceptable?
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The stealth game sucks in DBD. If you play stealth, you usually have to be seriously immersed or cautious because there is too much detection capability for killers.
Fix it by taming down detection, but not getting rid of it. Instead of seeing auras, what about an actual tracking perk that allows the killer to see evidence of footprints, or disturbances in the area with an aura signature that hints to time. Bright red footprints mean they were here within 10 seconds whereas faded yellow is more than 30 seconds old. You can see a direction or pattern of movement to follow.
The perk should give a chime or signal when there is something to see in the area and the killer can trigger it for x seconds.
This type of tracking perk would work well with the stealth game and be more like hunter and prey. Would make killers like Trapper, Hag, Pig and new Freddy even more useful vs stealth. If I see where your pattern was, I'm trapping it.
Keep the aura perks, but let someone who has evaded the killer's attention fo x minutes and is currently either crouched or hiding to be immune to it.
I hate being looped, but get that survivors have few options.
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I play a blendette. But i dont play urban evasion. I wear the clothes, because i know my looping skills are that bad. I do my teammates a bigger favor not to be found, because i wont last long. you must be really bad as a killer not to catch me in 30 seconds...:)
So yeah, i wear the clothes because of it. But lets be real too. I do a lot of gens. Most of the time i get all my 4 stacks of wglf without farming. Yes, i run BT to do saves when killers are camping. I never leave a teammate behind, unless there is 0 chance i can save them without just a trade. I run prove thyself, so we can do gens faster against tunnelling killers. I run bond so i can be on a gen with a teammate and make the most of it.
So no. Not all claudettes that wear dark clothes are bad. I usually end up in a normal game at the first place of all survivors. Mostly me being around 25k, while second only has 15k. How would i get that if i sat in corner all the time? I run, but also crouch to not get spotted. I know my weakness en play accordingly. But i am also the best teammate you will ever have. Even when i play solo, i will never run out if a save is possible. I dont hatchcamp. I do totems or am on a gen. Never in a corner.
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*activate cloak mode
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