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Noed Needs a Nerf.
Comments
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Here's an idea: Make noed base kit for all killers (hear me out) but add an on-screen totem counter. This bridges the gap between solo and swf and solves the problems of not knowing if the killer has noed and not knowing how many totems there are. It also creates a realistic/viable secondary objective for survivors which is something many people have been asking for for a long time, and it can be done without having to add anything major to the game or change any core mechanics.
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I might misremember, but i don't think NOED ever worked like version 1 says it did.
It says it will trigger after an Exit Gate is open, but what it actually did was trigger after the last Generator, like it always has.
Again, i might misremember, but i did run this Perk a lot in the early days.
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The perk always priced after last gen. Description was wrong. 2nd change was limiting to 2 min. Then hex.
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How about instead of a nerf, a rework?
Let me preface this by saying I use noed in it's current form. I'm a Wraith main, and he needs that noed cheese at purple and red ranks. I think we all know how annoying it is to be playing killer, and all of a sudden the gates are powered but your noed doesn't activate. However, I'm also a red rank survivor (well, not anymore cause rank reset, but you get the idea), and there's nothing more annoying, and I feel, undeserved when you run the killer all game, or at least for multiple gens, just for him to get noed and that's what it took to finally get you.
Now, hear me out. What if instead of noed being a totem perk, it was a token perk? I don't remember where I heard the idea (I didn't come up with it), but I thought it was really good. It would be a case of however many tokens you have would reflect how many one-hit downs you could get when the gates are powered, or something like that.
How you would earn the tokens is another discussion, but either way, however it worked would solve the problem of killers noed being cleansed from existence before it's even usable. It would also solve survivors complaints of the killer getting kills that they didn't deserve. I won't say all killers - but a fair bit of killers tend to just do..horribly, and make horrible decisions all round just to be saved by noed at the end. This would effect them most, because whatever it takes to get tokens, chances are high that good killers will earn those tokens fairly easily.
As well, before you say I'm just a survivor main looking to nerf noed, nah, it's not like that. I think Adrenaline could use a similar, token style rework. I actually have a good idea of how I would rework adrenaline, but that's for another thread.
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I'm not proposing any changes. I think both perks are fine as they are right now.
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Therefore it is an even worse case the perk has received practically strictly nerfs at high tier which proves the point even more.
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Sorry, but it's a no from me. IT's a decent perk that can be easily destroyed - Instead of always gen rushing take time to look for the totem guys
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This was discussed many times already.
Noed was nerfed twice already, and its not even a decent perk to begin with.
Destroying all 5 totems prolongs the game by 20 seconds. Git gud.
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The only sort of change needed is a totem counter for both sides. Maybe let the killer see all totems if NOED is in play.
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@HazeHound as long as they don't decrease the BP I am fine with that, I am a BP ######### 😂
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This is one of the silliest things I've read. "Punish genrushers". What are we punishing survivors for here? Doing literally their only objective? How DARE they. Seriously, that mentality is logically flawed.
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That's just wrong.
If anything, then the totems should be buffed, no matter, if it's a Hex or Dull totem. It should definitely take around 18 seconds, instead of the current 14 seconds, and it should contain frequent skill checks with lower, both, Good and Great success zones. The frequency should be similar to the Jigsaw's boxes, when the Add-on Razer Wires is being used.
Plus, per every failed skill check, there should be a penalty - The progress of cleansing would decrease, the Killer will be notified with the same sound as when Hex totem is being cleansed, (...).
The penalty may also make it unavailable to be cleansed for following three seconds after the failed skill check for every single Survivor, and only one Survivor would be able to cleanse a totem - No cooperative actions, like on the Generators, for ex..
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Currently I run it to balance EGC guarding doors. Since I normally end games with 3 gens left and hatch. All I have to do is stall with hatchets and then one-tap the person down.
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The risk is playing the game with 3 perks.
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If that were going to happen, Thrill of the hunt would need to be radius based for balance purposes if it's going to take more time, and have skill checks.
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I've had games where I'm the sole "runner" and have used Adrenaline without touching a generator.
You don't need to contribute to the objective at all for Adrenaline to proc.
You can also fail at your objective now and still have Adrenaline proc due to The Hatch being closed.
NOED also procs in this scenario, rewarding the killer for completing his objective, yet it's still complained about in this scenario as well.
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I respect OhTofu, but I disagree with his line of reasoning for both perks. NoED has already been tried as a standard perk that only granted movement speed. What we discovered was that even back then in 2016 is that it wasn't an effective perk. As the killer moving faster didn't actually impact the outcome in the much at all. It also used to do missed and successful attack cooldown as well. The only really impactful part of NoED was when it was Tier 3 and you got the one shot. They even tried to buff the stat boosts to have them be more useful so the perk would function better outside of tier 3, but that just didn't work.
Killers didn't like having a perk that was only really useful at tier 3 and survivors hated the nature of the perk just existing with no way to counter it. If you got to endgame and the killer had tier NoED he would have one shots and the game didn't even tell you he had NoED after someone went down. Survivors were right to call for something like that to be changed. The devs decreased the overall movement speed buff, removed the attack cooldown buffs, put the exposed effect at all tiers, and then made it a hex perk so it could be outright denied.
It is not an unfair expectation for survivors to cleanse dull totems and get bloodpoints while doing it. Now you get bp for the whole team so even more incentive. I don't think it is that hard to do as a solo survivor as you've got map addons and small game to drastically speed up the process for finding totems. I can see why after all of that the devs keep expressing that NoED is in a good place. They even have said that DS and NoED aren't comparable to each other and that is not how they balance the game.
As for DS, I think 60s is the right way to go for the perk. DS needed to be a time window perk or else there was too much incentive to always run it. Not mention, that the stun was buffed to 5s before the enduring nerf so players started getting their full value out if. Now with the enduring nerf to only affect pallet stuns and nothing else it still gets to be at 5s. That perk is perfectly fine now.
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Any idea about removing the totem from NOED and making it token based or something would remove counter-play from the perk altogether. Survivors can cleanse a totem, but theyd just have to eat 1 shots if it was token based.
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Okay, i was just making sure. 😋
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I'm not sure if this is the best idea, but I was thinking the other day about ways to change NOED without it feeling completely unfair to the survivors.
My idea was to get rid of the exposed effect and replace it with a 15% movement speed boost, 25% action speed boost, and 25% attack recovery speed boost. I feel like this keeps it being a very strong perk if it gets up without the frustration of getting hit and going down instantly.
Thoughts?
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Stop doing gens and do some totems. I know I give props to teams who actually chew through my NOED.
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Meanwhile we can’t give any changes to Monstrous Shrine, the most forgettable killer perk in the game since day 1. 😥
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It already have one: make all the totems before the last gen. NOED will become useless and you'll not have to cry and call the baby killer a noob.
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I think NOED should only expose survivors on death hook, so the killer actually has to play the game, its a fair condition.
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I agree on the idea of a whole perk re-balancing like giving the wake up from freddy to the perk wake up rather than adrenaline. Give Hope a buff and remove the exhaustion side from Adrenaline and the speed boost.
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as a fellow wraith main I wanna say hi
also I don’t use noed and while I agree it’s fine wraith doesn’t have to run it.
i do well without it and I honestly can say aside from Freddy. I don’t “need” it on any.
but there’s no denying it’s power if u get to use it.
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Bull. Even the top streamers almost never cleanse a dull totem so you can get out of here with the "smart survivors" bullcrap.
The nerf should be ALL dull totems become NOED rather than 1. That would be balanced. Hell the killer who was dog crap all game probably will still get a free kill from the perk.
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Yes every dull totem should become noed. Then the perk should only be nullified when all noed totems are cleansed :) Would teach a thing or two about those three tiny skull statues.
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I'd make a strong argument that running the killer for all 5 gens is as important as doing the actual gens. It absolutely contributes to the objective.
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Imagine complaining about NOED in 2019.
O-M-E-G-A-L-U-L
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"Imagine complaining about adrenaline in 2019"
Seriously though - nobody complained about adrenaline until self care was nerfed to a useless state and adrenaline became the new meta. NOED, much like adrenaline, does have that pesky little "the player gets this huge buff that they didn't earn" downside.
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Living until the last gen is done is earning it though.
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Not really. You could urban evade in a corner all game, do nothing, and adrenaline will still proc.
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Makes it lethal, but far, far less unfair. Still an incredibly strong incentive to cleanse totems, still rewards a killer for getting gen rushed, seems a lot better a choice than instant-death. The only reason I'd run noed is for the speed boost in endgame anyway...or freddy.
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The chances of your team doing well with one player having done exactly nothing, is very unlikely unless the killer is genuinely a potato player. This means at most one person on a gen at a time once the killer has found and hooked someone.
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No, not this way.
It'd be enough to nerf Hex: Thrill Of The Hunt by reducing the 6 % of the cleansing speed per a Token to 2 % or 3 % per a Token.
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NOED is a crutch perk. As a killer main, if you run noed you are bad the game and bad at your job. Period.
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The only problem I have with soloing is that I’m always the player in every game that tries to cleanse every totem.
I play the game less now so I’m in lower ranks since I never really play DBD, not like how I used to to.
When chased if I see a totem/hex I will remember the location.
However, that doesn’t mean that other players will care. Some people ignore totems, but not hexes. Randoms are well, randoms!
I don’t mind NOED, and I understand why some use it. But it really puts me off I dunno.
I play more careful now and leave ASAP ever since the end game has been implemented, it is not worth the risk at this point especially with the lack of BPs survivors get.
NOED is fine the way it is, just sucks for solos that’s all.
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What if I’m just using a perk randomized for the 3 perks that aren’t BBQ?
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Excuse #592
It's never your fault.
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All perks are crutches.
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Noed is that perk I put on bc I need a 4th perk and I’m being to lazy to optimize my build. Makes it really funny if I get a 4K before the gates are powered but they still send me hate mail over it.
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No. There are reasons it is a HEX, it's really your fault for not getting the totems cleansed. It is an optional objective, but it's more viable if you do cleanse them all. 50 seconds to cleanse all.
If we're saying this is a crutch perk, and if you run it, then let's say if you run any exhaustion, you're bad. Because it just doesn't make sense.
oof.
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How is an exhaustion perk in any way similar to the HUGE buff noed gives? Noed not only gives you one shot downs but also increases your speed, which is a huge deal. If you are getting to end game as killer, and have not done your duty, LET ME REMIND YOU YOUR JOB AS A KILLER IS TO PREVENT GENS FROM POPPING AND KILL SURVIVORS then you are bad at the game and don't deserve a buff like noed. You will not change my mind, noed is crutch and a terrible perk that bad killers rely on, just like bad survivors rely on perks like MoM and old DS.
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Let's think about this:
NOED LITERALLY is the ONLY hard counter Killers without an instant down have against a team of four Adrenaline users.
Would any other perk be better than NOED in dealing with Adrenaline during end game?
Hex: Devour Hope is too unreliable to be worth taking. If it works, you won't even get to end game, but if it breaks, well then it's even more useless than NOED.
Make Your Choice is highly dependent on how altruistic survivors are in a game, relies on you proxy camping, and it won't guarantee you downs. Potentially useless in end game because of body blocking.
Hex: Haunted Grounds is worth maybe one down a game, so again, it's not worth taking. It wouldn't survive to end game ever.
Rancor: Way too iffy, and it's bugged at the moment anyways. If you kill your obsession before the endgame, then you won't benefit from the instant down on your obsession end game.
Typical Situation:
Killer gets one kill but doesn't have a 3 gen strategy to fall back on. If you're not playing a top-tier Killer it's now impossible to maintain pressure on all gens once you've reached 2 generators left because the survivors will run towards safe tiles to loop you around, which means you can't start a chase without another generator going off.
You get into a chase, injure a survivor, and the last generator goes off. With 3 survivors alive, you've got to hit everyone twice now because of Adrenaline AND deal with the speed boost. NOED counters this. It gives the Killer a slight speed boost and a chance, at best, to get two more kills... If all 3 remaining survivors die because of NOED, the survivors misplayed, not the killer!
Not to mention, survivors can counter this strategy. Just run Unbreakable. I'm a top rank killer and I always slug if I'm running NOED if I think I can get two downs. That perk got a buff this PTB too!
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There are whole builds dedicated to end game because, gasp, it's still a phase of the game.
gets 4k with Blood Warden
"u r bad bc u let da genz pop and my feelies says that means I da winner bc no more genz!"
No. Literally failing to acknowledge that the endgame exists, regardless of NOED and Adrenaline talk, marks you as an ignorant, possibly inexperienced player.
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Sounds to me, as if the whole playerbase was only included of bad players then. As if taking any Perk, using any Perk slot, has made you a bad player. Period.
The principle is the same, just like the logic of yours.
Why don't you elaborate it a bit, into depth? I am sure, we could figure out more than with one-two-sentence answers, don't you think?
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So, in the game currently, we have two perks. Lets compare them:
- Procs when the last gen is complete
- Gives the survivor a free health state
- Gives the survivor a haste effect
- Counter play is kill the survivor. No other way to stop it from happening
Second Perk
- Procs when the last gen is complete
- Removes a health state from the survivors
- Gives the killer a haste effect
- Counter play is: Leave the gates, cleanse dull totems before popping the last gen, cleanse active totem after last gen, avoid getting hit by the killer.
The reason they're getting compared is that both perks give a similar reward to the user upon the completion of the last gen.
One has 1 method of counter play that is literally "kill the user before its conditions are met". The other has 4. Give me 3 more methods of counter play for adrenaline, and then we can talk about nerfing noed.
"But Tetsuo, adrenaline only applies once, while noed lasts until the totem is broken. The haste on adrenaline is a burst and not a constant thing."
Those are excellent points, Claudette, where ever you are. But here's the thing. Comparing a single survivor perk to a single killer perk should ALWAYS result in the killer perk being more powerful. Because the game isn't a single survivor vs a killer. An accurate comparison would be comparing 4x survivor perk to 1x killer perk.
"But Tetsuo, adrenaline rewards survivors for doing their job. NOED is free"
Another fine point, dear baby meg. But here's the thing. One perk rewards survivors for completing their main objective, while the other punishes survivors for not completing their secondary objective (the only one in the game, might I add). You may make an observation about killer perks in general. They're controlled by the survivors. There's.... not many perks that the killer has control over that isn't dependent on the survivors doing something wrong. So, noed is only free if the survivors make a critical mistake.
"But Tetsuo, how does a solo survivor know how many totems have been cleansed"
Excellent point, Dwight. Please come out of the locker and speak up next time, though. But here's the thing. I agree with you. Small game should track total number of totems on the map, and tell you how many remain.
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I don't know if anyone will see this but..
NOED doesn't need a nerf. More tools for SOLO SURVIVORS need to be introduced (Such as adding a totem counter to existing perks like Small Game) to help combat/prepare for NOED.
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