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A concept to nerfing second chance perks while allowing them to keep their current effects
So, a lot of people complain about how many survivor second chance perks there are, and how a lot of people just run these due to having little to no counter, so here's an idea on how to fix this while still allowing said perks to have their fullest effect.
I propose a status effect called "last chance" (or something like that) that can be used to block these second chance perks from stacking. The perks would cause this effect with a timer (that isn't affected by the perk tier, but each perk may have a different timer on it) and it acts like exhaustion; when this status effect is active, other second chance perks can't trigger. Last chance is automatically removed when the survivor is hooked, no matter how much time is left. In cases like BT being used on someone with Decisive Strike, which effect takes precedence is at random, so you can either get BT or DS activated.
What I think second chance perks should be:
Adrenaline
Decisive Strike
Borrowed Time
Mettle Of Man (maybe not after the new patch since it's now an earned effect, we'll see)
Deliverance
Any feedback on this would be appreciated, as well as any other perks that may be considered second chance perks.
Comments
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cough only survivor perks mentioned cough
DS was nerfed. It's fine. It's also one time use and counter tunneling. Stop tunneling.
Borrowed was nerfed. It's fine. Counter camping. Stop camping.
Deliverance is ONE TIME USE, and leaves them broken for a while. Just stop.
Mettle is GETTING nerfed.
Adrenaline, eh, it's an end game perk. It doesn't effect the mid game. If the game reaches end game, you don't necessarily deserve to get them.
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Killer's equivalent to second chance perks already have a system; hex totems. And those permanently disable the perks, so if anything survivors still have a step up compared to killers @Paladin_Goo
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This is just another "nerf everything survivors have until they have nothing". Soon you'll be demanding pallets and windows get removed completely.
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Try staying on topic instead of strawmanning ######### that wasn't even brought up bro.
I agree DS is fine now.
BT doesn't always need a camper, you could be LEAVING the hook and someone who was already there rushes a save before you can walk away. That's not the Killers fault.
Deliverance is fine.
MoM nerf is fine.
Adrenaline could still probably use a nerf. By your logic, they don't deserve the Survivor if the gates are powered, yes? Apply that same logic to a Survivor, if you get hooked, you don't deserve to escape at all.
Have that same energy for both sides, otherwise you're just biased.
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No, actually @Paladin_Goo. I want those in. As someone who plays both sides equally, I know what the pains of both survivors and killers are. Pain for a killer is not being able to touch someone because they have all these perks stack as a survivor, and it promotes perk abuse and not skill.
It'd also give Vigil an actual use, allowing others to recover their second chance perks quicker, and allowing Vigil to be more viable, while giving the killer more control over a chase, and since these perks no longer just chain together it promotes survivors trying to keep their perks as long as possible, so that they can keep going longer instead of abusing it till they either get away or the killer just gives up.
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@weirdkid5 Killers already do have that energy; they have the hex system. and unlike the system I've proposed here, Totems have continuous perks that are permanently disabled once the totem is broken. The survivor has no such system except the exhaustion system, which is used for dodge perks way, way more then second chance perks.
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adrenaline is fine, people just get tilted over it because it's situationally annoying. same with dead hard
DS is fine until the end game. it could use some tweaking (maybe stop the timer if the unhooked person is in a chase, but have it go down faster when the killer is elsewhere) so that it serves its anti-tunneling purpose properly without giving people free escapes at the end of the game, but these are minor things and i'm okay with DS overall
BT is fine, hit the unhooker
mettle is absolute nonsense and shouldn't even be in the game but they're nerfing it so whatever
deliverance is also fine
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How is Adrenaline a second chance? It is a perk that rewards you for doing your objective. The only one that needs a nerf is MoM and it is getting one.
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@TreemanXD Perhaps only triggers the second chance if the heal is used, or if in a chase. I was thinking about adding that to it's description, but decided to get feedback first on the base of it.
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I wasn't disagreeing with you buddy. Look who I was replying to, it wasn't you.
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Sorry, just seemed like you had moved on to feedback for me at that point. @weirdkid5
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I also want to say, the Last Chance status only applies once they are used, and is not a nerf to the perks themselves, but rather the ability to chain them.
Also, for clarification, last chance counts down even in a chase, so if you keep the killer chasing you it can be used again in the same chase and the like.
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@AetherBytes I don’t think Adrenaline really needs any nerf, if DS were to get a tweak then it could be “after another survivor is hooked this perk will deactivate” keeping the timer of course.
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No, I was actually siding with you against the baseless claims that you just want to nerf Survivor until nothing is viable.
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I've been vocal that adrenaline should be a token based perk. It should be something that's earned, but don't take functionality away from it.
And stop calling it a strawman - that argument is proven null and void by threads like this. People asked for DS to be nerfed, it was. Borrowed time, it was. It just doesn't stop. When it stops, I'll stop throwing that hypothetical future out there.
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@Paladin_Goo how exactly would that work? How would you earn tokens?
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@Paladin_Goo again, it's not a nerf to the perks, but the ability to chain them together and make it nearly impossible for a killer to down a survivor when they are chained.
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Objectives? Altruism? Boldness? There's any number of things. Bottom line is it would be earned, not rewarded even to someone who urban'd in a corner all game.
Also @weirdkid5, it will only become baseless when nerf's happen and people like him don't still demand things get nerfed more. It is absolutely not baseless in any sense of the word. It's exactly what I said would happen a year ago on the steam forums. "DS will eventually get nerfed, and a year later people will want it nerfed more cause survivors adapted".
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I’d be ok with not rewarding people urban evasioning around the map.
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i don't notice any real issue when these perks are chained together. MoM by itself is dumb but the rest rarely come into play
my biggest issue is people who use MoM and bring syringes into games
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First,
Killer crutch perks are already nerfed: NOED gets cleansed, Devour Hope gets cleansed, Make Your Choice promotes anti-tunneling, Haunted Ground gets cleansed. Don’t know what you been playing but 90% of the time, these are just decoys for Ruin in most games I see.
Lastly, I think adrenaline is fine just the way it is. The only time it punishes a killer is if he/she slugs the survivor and moves away. However, that’s entirely the killer’s fault. A well organized team will communicate promptly when to pop the last gen so Adrenaline serves value...can’t punish them for having a strategic game plan. And if you’re slugging to aim for the 4K and you pop adrenaline by closing hatch...again your fault, that’s the risk you run slugging. Be safe, hook them.
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Not every insta-down is a crutch, noed, yes but the others? No.
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I have a different idea. A few key changes to put a cap on the strength of this perk combo so that there is a perfectly uniform way of dealing with this perk combination: waiting out for 45 seconds.
Adrenaline: Instantly heal one Health State and sprint at 150% of your normal running speed for 5 seconds when the Exit Gates are powered. If you are disabled, Adrenaline will pause and instead provide a 45 second Endurance buff when activated.
Borrowed Time: For 15 seconds after unhooking a Survivor within the Killer's Terror Radius, any damage taken that would put the unhooked Survivor into the Dying State will instead trigger a 45 seconds seconds bleed-out timer, which ticks down regardless of chase or TR. Unlocks the ability to Mend.
Decisive Strike: After being unhooked or unhooking yourself, Decisive Strike will become active and usable for 45 seconds. While Decisive Strike is active, when grabbed by the Killer, succeed a Skill Check to automatically escape the Killer's grasp and stun the Killer for 5 seconds.
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♫ Maybe git gud instead of complaining
That's how these things work ♫
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Adrenaline - Why is this a second chance perk? This perk is an end-game perk, which means you have to reach end-game first, you are pretty much playing the whole game with just 3 perks. Also, even after the last gen pops, if you're not in a chase, it's not very good.
Decisive Strike - Was nerfed. It's fine now. It's a counter to tunneling, so don't tunnel maybe?
Borrowed Time - Was nerfed. It's a counter to camping. If you're going to camp, atleast make sure that you're doing it good and always smack the unhooker to be 100% sure someone is gonna go down.
Mettle of Man - It's getting nerfed.
I'm not even gonna write anything about Deliverance because it's not a second chance perk at all.
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Since when adredaline its a second chance its not second chance, second chance are like MoM or dead hard etc
MoM good change in the next patch
Deliverance its one tine only but its a bad perk and also a waste of a perk if you got caught first bye bye Deliverance also you get broken status effect you cannot be heal
Decisive strike dude dont tunnel and also ds got a timer of 1 min i think
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What I'd like to see is a small change to DS. It's supposed to be an anti-tunnel perk. Therefore, the perk should get deactivated when another survivor is getting downed + hooked after the DS user has been unhooked. Currently, DS also punishes killers when they down survivors fast.
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I love that tu quoqe and red herring bro
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Adrenaline would be fine if games didn't go so fast. This is more of a problem with gens being too easy to get done fast (which is the developer's, not the player's, fault). I don't think it needs a nerf so much as they need to balance their game.
Decisive Strike is fine for what it is. It's a single use perk meant to prevent you from tunneling someone straight off of a hook
Borrowed Time is like Decisive Strike. Again, just don't tunnel someone off hook.
Mettle Of Man is getting a big nerf.
Deliverance is single use and leaves them broken.
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