Mettle of Man Nerf Is Too Much
So after finally playing the revised MoM I can say that because the Protection Hit Score Event isn't 100% reliable and fails to register sometimes it really hurts the perk and now Flip Flop is Ash's best perk.
I like the idea of needing Protection Hits, but the problem is not only is extremely hard to get those hits but the reward is no longer worth the risk. You get the hit and you run off and maybe you get away to go heal but then you get found and bam, hooked because you're bleeding and loud therefore easy to find. Bodyblocking is only really useful when the whole team is doing it because it doesn't matter if one of them goes down but if you're doing it by yourself you're going down.
There is no garuntee strategy to get all 3 Protection Hits because forcing those hits kills you and the team and because the Score Event is wonky you probably won't even get all 3 or even 2 in my case. You REALLY need to be by your team and stalk the Killer to get those hits and that hurts the team because you're not doing Gens, you're dicking around all to get an extra hit for yourself that will probably be used the moment you FINALLY get that 3rd Protection Hit you've been doing so the perk gets you killed.
Long story short the nerf has ruined the perk, I think it would have been better to give it the same requirements for WGTLF instead.
Comments
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Agreed
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Personally, I think it should activate regardless of being in the Injured state. One of the issues with Mettle was that it disproportionally punished M1 Killers over M2 Killers. Now insta-down Killers can ignore it even if you do manage to get all three protection hits.
Otherwise, I'm fine with it in its current state. It's more build-reliant like the rest of Ashes' perks.
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@Grazox It's definitely build reliant, I think another reason I'm having a hard time is because I don't have Empathy on Ash. If I had that it would be much easier to help out my team and get those stacks.
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I believe the change was meant to make it extremely niche and hard to achieve, especially with how gamechanging the effect is.
I'd rather wait for them to fix protection hits. Gameplay in general becomes 100x better without MoM in the equation, It was opressive enough with only one person running it, so it was a "God have mercy on your soul" situation when 2+ people decided to run it. I firmly believe the effect it provides has no place in the game, but if it's gonna stay, the current iteration (that pretty much guarantees it's impossible to see more than one per match) seems to be the way to go.
A perk that gives a free hit should never be meta. Adrenaline, DS, BT, DH and BL are fine examples of perks that are extremely good without being unhealthy and overbearing when everybody runs them. Then you have more niche perks like Deliverance, which provides a strong effect but is situational (you're realistically not going to see more than 2 in a game) and has requirements to set up. MoM provides an even stronger effect, so it should be more niche and harder to achieve.
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Having to try to get 3 “extra” hits just to get 1 hit while injured isn’t worth it at all though. It’s garbage in this new state. For the effort and time it takes to get those hits, as well as having to heal, it really needs to include instadown protection otherwise it just makes no sense.
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@gantes I like that it's niche, it gives the player a certai playstyle when they have the perk. We got stealth players, Gen jockeys, runners etc this would go into a sort of in your face type of gameplay, I guess the Runner. This player isn't working on Gens they're protecting their team and distracting the Killer and that's what gets them those Protection hits.
Once they fix that Protection Hit Event I'm sure the perk will be fine but right now it's borderline impossible. I got all 3 stacks one time but my team was on the brink of death with me and one other dude and I got instadowned by GF so it didn't even get activated.
I guess a good build for it would be Empathy, MoM, Self-Care, and Dead Hard? With either a Med-Kit or a Flashlight as an item.
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Again, since I don't think the extra hit mechanic should be in the game at all, I'm not bothered by this.
Chances are they made the requirements this hard simply to dissuade people from using it.
I think that unlike DS, which could be salvaged into something healthy and a good addition to the game, MoM will always, by the nature of its effect, be either overbearing or extremely useless. Prefferably the latter.
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I'd honestly prefer they made a different perk for Runners. As a "role" it has quite a bit of potential, but I think MoM will never be salvaged into something healthy.
Just my opinion. Maybe I'm wrong. I hope I am because I HATE how many useless perks this game already has.
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I think including instadowns and removing the only when Injured part, puts it in the middle of that (between overbearing and extremely useless). I don’t think that would be overbearing or unfair in the slightest. Seems like a decent compromise. The perk is still going to be niche because of the activation requirement, but at least you possibly useful reward to shoot for. I just don’t think the answer, no matter how strong a perk used to be, is making it utterly useless.
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I think it might be OK. This is probably something they'd look into if they revisit MoM because it was the first PTB iteration.
As I said, I hate it when perks are useless. I do think they generally do a better job at making most survivor perks OK than they do with killer perks though. As survivor it seems like you can make a ton of fun builds, and as killer I feel I can't deviate too much from my main build from each killer without shooting myself in the foot.
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From my tests, MoM has appeared to become yet another Boiled Over. It's still bad with gimmick builds and you'll never get it off. On top of that, you're putting you and your team in a vulnerable spot for something that won't pan out. It's better to take other perks. Like any other perk, really.
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@fluffymareep exactly my point, damn I remember when Boil Over came out I was so excited, I literally thought it was going to be a new meta perk but it was nowhere close and it just failed miserably.
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MoM after updates become useless, better using another perks
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I understand why it's not the same as WGLF, and that's fine, but protection hits making it proc only makes it usable by the problematic 4-man SWF groups, and all 4 survivors can get it off in a match in theory.
if they really want to deal with it properly AND make it useable, make it entirely by safe hook rescues. This way you get a maximum of 2 people using the perk (that is, having it go off) during a game and the reality is that it probably either won't happen much in this scenario OR it will slow the game down by default because people are fighting for MoM stacks. It's a win-win; survivors get a perk that actually has some use outside of organised SWF and killers get some gen pressure going by default if the perk is used.
@gantes I agree there are definitely more limited options for the standard killer outside of Russian Roulette or Gen Protector for the Spirit, but honestly it feels mostly limited as survivor too. Too many perks for both sides are either useless or completely worthless when compared against other meta perks that do the same job at the end of the day and are easier to use. (Actually, that's why I'm super glad they buffed PGTW in the way they did, as 30 seconds simply wasn't enough in big maps and it made it more viable)
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The fact that all of Ash's perks are now useless is sad. I ran MoM today, and didn't get a single stack on it, even though I threw myself in front of my teammates to see if it would work. Love how you pay for items that end up becoming trash.
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I will add to this that it doesn't even work now! If i stand close to another survivor and take the hit, the stacks doesn't settle in! But i get the "protection" points , ######### is this, they actually broke the whole perk
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I do agree that MoM was too overpowered, especially when more than one survivor had it, but I think that having to take 3 protection hits is overkill. It's nearly impossible to do. The entire perk needs to be reworked.
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Because protection scores only mainly work when survivor is getting carried, 3 hits are way too situational. I played so far 5 games and only got MoM to 2 tokens.
Gonna try using it more just to be sure.
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It was changed because it was used more as a troll and/or I'm untouchable perk than it's intended purpose. The devs have been really good about changing these types of things lately.
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I think it needs to be two protection hits because you can't even body block hooks well.
I play killer and survivor and mettle was so annoying on killer now but its another lemon perk to add to the "Never gonna run a build with this" pile
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It never goes off, and the time that you lose is so great from going out of your way, you literally might as well not run the build. The devs seemed to have pulled a freddy nerf situation and listened to the loud noise. We will see as time goes on.
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Has anyone see any survivor with MoM in these days?
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I sincerely removed it from any char lol
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The protection hits are bugged for perks. For some reason, the protection hits don't even proc for WGLF or MOM when you take a normal hit that used to give you a stack unless someone is being carried. Put this in bugs report.
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@prayer_survivor I thought I had a match with a Nea who had it because she kept throwing herself at the Killer and then at the right moment she had that Endurance effect and I was blown away she got it to work. But then after we all died I looked at her perks and she didn't have it which reminded me that I had saved her with BT earlier and I was very disappointed :(
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I've never seen a survivor with MoM since the nerf
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MoM wasnt a staple, at least not in the serious part of the game.
It was a decent but situational perk, so I agree it didnt need to be nerfed into the ground.
Do we absolutely need it back?Of course no. Still RIP tho.
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Legion comes out and destroys the health, well being and future of the game for 2 years before balance happens.
Ash comes out with 1 ok perk which is nerfed into extinction within 3 months
Protection hits are unreliable at best. This is the worst way they could have gone with the MoM change.
Fair and consistent balance for all! XD
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@HatCreature The perk is fine as it is now. The problem is that the protection hits are seriously bugged. I can't even get stacks for wglf unless I'm hit unhooking or unhooked safely. Protection hits need looked at. Until it's fixed, wglf and Mom are useless.
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@AStupidMonkeyy That's exactly how I feel about it, the change is good it makes sense but until the Protection Hits are fixed it's broken.
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@moridoll I was able to get it off, but I literally had to run after someone as they're getting chased and take a hit. Even then, it's massively inconsistent and takes way too much time to pull off if it happens to not register a protection hit as a protection hit for whatever reason.
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@HatCreature It seems hit detection for killers are broken also since the update. They broke this, that and gen grabs are still getting broken off. I try not to hope too much anymore for updates. I am usually killer sided but I feel like killer gets shafted more but if a survivor perk gets nerfed and it seems not fair, I'm quick to defend it. I also would like to see Left Behind buffed. I honestly think it should be 15 seconds of opening the hatch by animation and if the survivor isn't hit, they get to hop in. It rewards you for outwitting the killer and doesn't punish you for ######### teammates. What do you think?
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@AStupidMonkeyy Since they gave us the Endgame Collapse, Left Behind is completely useless; and for some reason the Devs think otherwise, they flat out said that you can still use the perk and get the trophy JUST DO IT BEFORE THE HATCH IS CLOSED!!!
Great thinking Devs
I think your version of the perk is ok, It be ''When you are the last remaining Survivor and the Hatch is closed, perform a 25/20/15 second animation to open and escape through the Hatch''. I think that's the best way to rework the perk because it's no longer about getting enough Gens to reveal the Hatch it's about getting to the Hatch first or getting to the Exit first. This perk would give Survivors the 3rd option of getting to the Closed Hatch which sounds awesome.
Some people would say it would be overpowered and everyone will use it, well not everyone uses keys and everyone has them. Also, I think it's pretty hilarious that a Survivor will set up their entire build based around their team dying. It won't ever be as popular as Adrenaline, it takes time to perform, and if the Killer finds them it's game over.
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@HatCreature That's how I meant the perk to work. 15 seconds is tier 3 and it's balanced because the killer has to choose and you can still interrupt the animation by wacking them. You just have to check on everything. It would also give the pebble some play ;D Throw a pebble and start on it.
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Just in response to this, WGLF isn't really broken, getting unhooks to get 3-4 stacks isn't too bad if the game is moving along smoothly BUT Mettle of Man is broken because it ONLY relies on protection hits, which literally never work. So yeah at least WGLF does work for unhooking safely.
I believe the protection hits must be bugged because they NEVER work and I've been using We're Gonna Live Forever for the past week. It's also bugged on the icon because it won't go above 3, so not sure what they did but they broke some stuff lately.
I would prefer if it worked for safe unhooks and protection hits (when they work..) for Mettle of Man because then it's worth using and trying to save your teammates means you're not being selfish and hiding in a corner. I really hope they fix this soon because I bought Ash just before his nerf and now that it's nerfed AND (hopefully) broken, it's just not worth leveling him up to get his MoM perk. Feels like wasted money like when I bought Freddy then leveled him to 40 and a day later he was nerfed.. for an entire year until his soon to be coming rework (thank god, been waiting so long for that).
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