Can you revert the fast vault changes? They are bad for the game.
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@skillchecks Yes but you're supposed to be 3 steps away before you vault and almost looking at it to fast vault. This change was meant to fix that and make sure its medium unless you back up a step and run almost at it. It prevents people from getting easy fast vaults when they shouldn't but survivors aren't happy about anything to do with balance.
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That's the point. If you are not looking at the window , you get a medium vault. So, let's say we are running the shack window or a jungle gym, and we are looking behind us to see if the killer wants to cut you off or double back.....you can't. You get hit anyways because you get a ######### medium vault. What option do i have? join the W gamers club? No , thanks.
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@skillchecks It was never meant to be a super safe loop. It is balanced. I've been playing survivor all day today and never had much problem with it and if you are running straight towards it like you're supposed to 3 steps away, it's still a fast vault. You have to reach the maximum speed to get fast vaults.
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Can I get that vid @JetTheWaffleCat ? I've been learning the hard way.
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Here you go kind sir.
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Killers think shack is an infinite in 2019.. OMEGALUL. I cannot believe my eyes.
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it is ever so sad
they can't possibly be bad at the game, it's the game itself
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@weirdkid5 and I are both survivor mains. It's an infinite cause I can run it as an infinite. Maybe you're just not good enough to, you obviously being at rank 15.
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this is so sad
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@miaasma https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bOSjAk7e5I At 6:23, he fast vaults after hugging the pallet side of the shack. What is the issue?
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@Paladin_Goo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bOSjAk7e5I At 6:23, he fast vaults after hugging the pallet side of the shack.
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@ygnea https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bOSjAk7e5I At 6:23, he fast vaults after hugging the pallet side of the shack. What is the issue?
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@skillchecks At 6:23, he fast vaults after hugging the pallet side of the shack. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bOSjAk7e5I
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he didn't hug anything? he came at it at the correct angle and vaulted it
not sure why you're @ing me, i don't have any issue looping shack. the only reason shack is even a part of this discussion is because certain incredibly clueless people think it's an infinite. my issue is more with the way it affects jungle gyms and 4lanes although i personally have no trouble fast vaulting these tiles effectively
also, why did you make 4 separate posts saying exactly the same thing? why are people with bill icons like this
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@miaasma So you agree that the changes were alright then?
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@miaasma He hugged the pallet when he ran in which is what everyone keeps saying is impossible to fast vault because of it. You only get a medium vault now but that's not true. He hugged the pallet, still got a fast vault. It's about knowing the 3 step distance.
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I'm a killer main, and trust me shack is not an infinite. Some of you guys have the idea that infinites still exist when they USED to exist. They do not exist anymore.
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no, i don't, and i think they're representative of a larger issue regarding BHVR's ability to fix design problems
supposing that this was meant to fix infinite windows being fast vaulted, most problem windows (ironworks, suffo pit, wretched shop, cowshed, asylum etc.) are unaffected. the only problem window i can think of that this impacts directly is the storehouse window being vaulted from the inside, and that window probably should just be closed permanently anyway
the tiles mostly affected by these changes are mindgameable tiles that did not need shadow nerfs. instead of fixing the structures themselves they release a catch-all fix that deals with the real problem poorly and nerfs things that weren't problems
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uh, i don't think you understand why people are complaining about this. nobody says hugging the pallet and then fast vaulting is impossible, you just have to properly angle yourself
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@miaasma That's understandable but everyone got in a fit because they all said shack was impossible to fast vault from pallet side now. That was how this entire post got started. Since I realize that you do tend to be more survivor friendly, I wanted your take on the matter since I lean more towards killer friendly. I gave a survivor buff earlier today and got downvoted XD
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i think people are more peeved at why this change was made to begin with than the actual consequences of it (although like i said, the consequences regarding already perfectly manageable structures rub me the wrong way). i'd be surprised if anyone had actually said that fast vaulting shack window from either end of shack was impossible, but we're on this forum where people say things like "shack is an infinite" so anything's possible i guess
my stance on this topic is mostly influenced by my experience playing killer, not survivor. i have a lot of experience chasing people around broken structures and shack simply isn't one of them. it's a strong loop when run well but it's also a very skill-based loop and it can be mindgamed by both sides. other structures that can be run properly by a toddler like the asylum aren't affected by these changes, that's my main concern with the direction BHVR is going with their balance changes
on the other hand they did say they intend on reworking multiple maps so i live in hope
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can i ask which fast vaults, specifically, you are referring to with this post?
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@miaasma Honestly, they should make it a solid wall so neither side can see the other through the cracks then mind games would be a thing but as it is now, I play Bill and Ninja Nea and shack is easy to mind game because I can see the killers' colors through the cracks of it. I even had a video awhile back on how to loop the killer at it 100%. Same with the wooden t-walls on the farm maps. You could see them through it. It was more about reaction time than mind games for me.
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@AStupidMonkeyy i mean i guess, but that's like saying they should remove the red stain. both sides can see through the cracks and see grass move through the walls. there being tells to see which direction someone is going doesn't really remove the mindgameable nature of shack. faking windows, looping unpredictably and moonwalking are all still viable strategies that can catch the other side off guard
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@miaasma Being able to see the killer accordingly and make a judgement call is why a lot of people believe its an infinite. I've had really good survivors just go the opposite way that I'm going. Without bamboozle, it's a guaranteed 3 loop unless the killer makes a mistake then you can do 1 more loop around before hitting the pallet or taking a hit. That gives the mindset of an infinite. Specially since we all know its called the god pallet for a reason. do the 3 loops, take a hit, loop somewhere else, come back and do another 3 loops then break the pallet. That easily burns up 2 minutes or more alone when a good survivor does that. Sometimes even going down is better than throwing god pallet. With the game being so short, it was pretty op when a good survivor utilized it. Now you cannot fast vault inside unless you do it perfectly angled, in my opinion, is fine. You might only get 2 loops out of 3 unless you go from the opposite way but it's still great. Also, I do believe that they did change the windows again on the treatment theater. I could be wrong.
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it's definitely not a guaranteed 3 loop without bamboozle
at most, a survivor should get 1 loop out of the window before you figure out how they loop shack and react accordingly. killers can mindgame shack just as survivors can. if a survivor fakes a window a lot, pretend to cut them off at the window then double back and run into shack; at this point all they can do is either drop the pallet or medium vault, and good players hate wasting shack pallet (i'll die for that thing)
alternatively if they just W game and don't mindgame anything you can cut them off after the vault
does this work all the time? of course not, nothing in this game is guaranteed and i'm making it sound easier than it is. but nothing about shack guarantees three loops and you absolutely do not need bamboozle to run it properly
bamboozle is actually just another bandaid fix for bad map design. instead of fixing problem windows they added a perk you can run to cut these windows off after one loop. again, the problem with this is that now other, weaker loops suffer
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Are people really saying shack is an infinite? I'll admit, I'm fairly killer biased in discussions, but wow. You have line of sight breaks, one window in the middle of an LOS break, and one pallet. There are so many ways to mindgame it and it's the easiest loop in the world once the pallet is broken.
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@miaasma But you can see the killer through the cracks so you know where he is if you're paying attention. The loop is long enough that a killer cannot catch up to you quick enough to stop the actual loop and if the killer reads wrong, you get another loop around, which is why 3 loops is possible if you optimize it perfectly unless they have bamboozle. If you couldn't see the killer through the cracks, I would say I agree with you but the fact that hiding the red glow doesn't do anything if you can see the killers through the wall, it will never change. A good example! You can break Ghost Face out of Night Shroud through the cracks of the shack wall if he stands still but you can't stalk through it. It's because there is enough space to see the killer but not enough for the killer to register its power on you (but he can see you). (my edit: I also forgot to mention, to hide your red glow, you have to look AWAY from the wall at an angle but the survivor can still see you at all times through the cracks. There is no mind game.)
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@AStupidMonkeyy you can see where the killer is coming until you actually commit to doing something
because that's what shack is, you eventually have to commit to a play. if you don't commit to a window vault or a fake soon enough the killer just hits you in shack. as a survivor you're the one being chased and you only have a couple of seconds to determine what the killer is about to do and respond to it. you don't have the time to sit there and see where he's going through the wall, and even if you use that as a tell he can just as easily fake where he's going and bait you into either vaulting or faking the vault
this is why shack is one of those places where survivors and killers are on relative equal footing assuming equal skill level. obviously a good survivor is going to run a bad killer around the shack for a very long time and a bad survivor is going to drop the pallet and go down in 10 seconds anyway. either side can outplay the other. using visual cues is smart but ultimately what gets you another loop or gets you downed is predicting the other side
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totally agree with you on the storehouse and abatoir windows but personally even with medium vaults i think those loops are stupid and i'd be happier if they were just altered or removed
as for other loops, i guess i just don't encounter those vaults often, or didn't before this patch? i almost never saw a survivor get a fast vault i didn't think they should have. more often than not i'd see them get a medium vault and i'd autoaim onto the side of the window or something, and don't even get me started on chainsaws' interactions with medium vaults
i also completely agree that something that is incredibly broken should not simply be left as it is because it takes "skill" (hello nurse)
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@miaasma You have a point. I always seem to get 2 window loops before getting a hit or making them drop a pallet. I can't seem to stop them anytime sooner than that. (I'm Rank 5 Killer and a Rank 2 Survivor currently but I'm always Rank 1 on both sides)
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@AStupidMonkeyy 2 window loops is fair if you aren't sure how the survivor plays and can't necessarily predict them well. keep in mind that these window loops aren't huge loops like the ironworks window or an asylum window, so even if they get 2 loops out of it you aren't losing too much time or distance unless you mess up
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@miaasma I will say as this about Asylum window, if they made it always spawn to the right, then I wouldn't mind it because then its mind game-able. Simply, you can go up the stairs and out the window to cut them off and most people don't know that's even a thing but I 100% agree on the ironworks window. It's an unskilled loop that is almost unavoidable without bamboozle.
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People saying that vault changes is to prevent the abuse of some long chase windows. Well, guess what. I can't get a fast vault in a 4 lane or a jungle gym, but i can get a fast vault in the ironworks window from the outside. How ironic.
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@JetTheWaffleCat This blew my ######### mind. I honest to god never knew there was actual strategic ways to stop loops sooner. I always just brute forced them if I couldn't mindgame the red glow. Thank you, kind sir. You are a gentleman and a scholar!
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Anyone complaining about this is whining for the sake of whining. You're supposed to run straight for what was it, 1-2 seconds to get a fast vault. You guys are complaining about an exploit that allowed you to fast vault at an angle when you shouldn't have been able to. No nerf there at all, simply a bug fix.
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i'd highly recommend scott's youtube! very informative killer main, lots of great tips in his videos
he's a lot of fun to watch on twitch too
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well and all the killers whining about ghostfaces fix? in your logic these werent nerfs, but bugfixs, arent them whining for the sake of whining too?
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Those were most definitely nerfs. His logic is fine, yours is flawed.
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